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Corban Lahnder
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
158
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Posted - 2012.07.30 14:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alot of people seem to be bitching about spawn camping.
My response to this has always been...Well spawn at a more rear spawn point to avoid this. If a CRU has been over run dont spawn there. Its why we have red zones.
The spawn camping and the general: "RAWRRR FARM KILLS" attitude that posses some matches is illustrative of a much greater problem.
In the objective matches really the only thing you need to gain SP is a good kill death ratio. This is bad because it means people can loose a match and still get a ton of SP even though they completely ignore the whole objective point of the match.
We have team death match. If you want to play in an environment were KD ratio is the only thing that matters it should matter most there not in the objective based matches.
I understand that the objective based matches need to have a safety that rewards people for good performance in a match even if there team lost. But right now people seem to be abusing this mechanic to the detriment of any one who tries to play a match the way it was intended to be played.
I think an easy solution to this would be a small SP penalty to all players on a team that looses a match and a small SP gain for any one who wins a match. If this mechanic already exists im sorry but its not enough to deter the spawn camping some players cant seem to avoid.
Another thing to encourage team gameplay would be compounding SP Awards. For instance if you preform a wide variety of activities in game: Repping players + Reviving Players + Repping vehicles + Dropping uplinks + Hacking vehicles + Hacking facilities, You would get more SP based on the variety of tasks you perform.
TLDR: If the best way to get SP is farming kills. People will ignore the game you have created and only farm kills.
Kill farming isn't bad per se its just boring for the people on the receiving end of it and discourages variety in gameplay for both parties. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.30 14:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Corban Lahnder wrote:Alot of people seem to be bitching about spawn camping.
My response to this has always been...Well spawn at a more rear spawn point to avoid this. If a CRU has been over run dont spawn there. Its why we have red zones.
That's fine until you realise the problem with spawn camping is when your team has already been pushed back to their starting spawn and the opposing team already controls the map.
In that situation, the official confirmation that randomised spawns are intended and the fixed location of each spawn point is a glitch, combined with the ability to place Drop Uplinks, is a better argument in response to spawn camping complaints. |
Eskel Bondfree
27
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Posted - 2012.07.30 17:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've made a suggestion regarding spawn camping in this thread as apart of a general feedback on SP distribution. It could help to reduce the amount of spawn camping that is done only to farm easy SP. Basically the idea is to award close to zero points for killing a player that just spawned (say within the first 5 seconds after spawning or so). Benefit: spawn campers will have to make a decision: either a) stop camping because they don't get many points or b) wait the 5 sec before shooting, but risking that the spawned player gets to cover or shots back first. Of course you can still spawn camp in order to defend an objective that is being retaken, or to pin down the enemy in the main base (imo both are valid tactics in an FPS).
Corban Lahnder, may I also ask you to add your suggestions regarding SP earnings and team play awards to the mentioned thread? I made the thread specifically to collect feedback and ideas regarding SP earning in battle and to improve the current system. It would be nice if we can keep the information and discussion in one place, so players and CCP don't have to search through the whole forum every time. |
Rains Akkadian
BetaMax.
28
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Posted - 2012.07.30 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think you have touched two subjects here.
1) Spawn camping, everybody hates to be on the recieving end of "spawn camping" yet its so easy to do. I hate it but i find myself hacking point B and then thinking "right, i need to defend this while the hack runs its course". I know where the enemy are most likely to come from so I automatically position myself facing the spawn point. Some poor Joe spawns and blam blam blam he's dead.
Then I feel bad, he didnt have a chance, i just "spawn camped". All I can do is look away and let anyone who spawns get the first shot at me before I retaliate.
I think randomising the exact spawn point will help a bit but ultimately I agree with other posters in this thread, you can see on the map 3 red dots looking at the spawn point so spawn somewhere else instead.
2) Difference in rewards for winning or losing (note the spelling  )
I don't agree with penalising the losing team. People will lose games and it shouldn't be a case of only the elite (or skillful) get to progress to better equipment, skills, etc
That would produce a self fullfilling prophecy of the winners winning and the losers losing.
However I do agree that there is no recognisable incentive to trying to win. You get money and SP weather you win or lose. Some games you get more for losing than you did for winning in another game.
There needs to be some kind of reward for winning that creates the desire to win but doesn't penalise the losers (too much) |
Eskel Bondfree
27
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Posted - 2012.07.30 18:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rains Akkadian wrote:
I don't agree with penalising the losing team. People will lose games and it shouldn't be a case of only the elite (or skillful) get to progress to better equipment, skills, etc
That would produce a self fullfilling prophecy of the winners winning and the losers losing.
However I do agree that there is no recognisable incentive to trying to win. You get money and SP weather you win or lose. Some games you get more for losing than you did for winning in another game.
There needs to be some kind of reward for winning that creates the desire to win but doesn't penalise the losers (too much)
But you realize that penalizing the loser is effectively the same as rewarding the winner? No matter whether you take some of the earnings away from the loser, or give something extra to the winner, either way there will be a difference between the two, which is all that is needed. |
Rains Akkadian
BetaMax.
28
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Posted - 2012.07.30 18:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:Rains Akkadian wrote:
I don't agree with penalising the losing team. People will lose games and it shouldn't be a case of only the elite (or skillful) get to progress to better equipment, skills, etc
That would produce a self fullfilling prophecy of the winners winning and the losers losing.
However I do agree that there is no recognisable incentive to trying to win. You get money and SP weather you win or lose. Some games you get more for losing than you did for winning in another game.
There needs to be some kind of reward for winning that creates the desire to win but doesn't penalise the losers (too much)
But you realize that penalizing the loser is effectively the same as rewarding the winner? No matter whether you take some of the earnings away from the loser, or give something extra to the winner, either way there will be a difference between the two, which is all that is needed.
Ultimately yes, but it depends on the form of penalty.
Receiving less SP is not really a penalty because you still achieve something.
Taking something away would be a penalty.
To be clear; giving things to winners that can only be achieved by winning would be bad. Taking things away from the losers would also be bad (i.e. ending a game with less SP than you started with)
But you are correct, there needs to be a noticeable reason to desire to win
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