DUST Search - This... is... BETA!!!!

Abner Kalen wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Gatsu Scarz wrote:

All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin.
I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see.

Because there are people who think this is near final product.

Because it SHOULD be near final product at this stage of the game's development. From what I know they are still releasing this in only a few short months (fall 2012). I think everyone is worried that this game will launch without being fully ready, without being fully polished.

I'm expecting 60fps, console aim-assist, hit-box hits every time, grenade/mine/remote explosives HUD indicator, RE timer to set and detonate, full group PVE experience, full tutorial for new players with voice acting (all of the COD beginner tutorials with that Scottish drill instructor), fixed spawn-camping, fixed dropship crushing abuse, EVE's amazing character creator in Dust514, all at crisp anti-aliased Unreal Engine graphics.

This is what I was expecting in June, and I think most people will expect the same. From the current build that we are seeing this is an increasingly difficult task to accomplish by Fall 2012.

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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:21:00 - [1] - Quote This is... BETA!" *Kicks the unbeliver down a bottomless pit. 300 Jokes aside, This is to inform the people who think that the beta is a demo are entirely wrong. Also those who been following dust 514's goals for launch would know we are NO WHERE NEAR LAUNCH STATE. First off, you need to know the developer a bit more. CCP is notoriously known for constantly updating thier flagship game, Eve-Online to the point its jokingly called 'pernamently in beta.' Which I have a funny feeling dust 514 is going to get similar treatment where it will never leave 'beta status' but would go past the point of wipes and resets/rollbacks. CCP on most of thier major patches (and now adays even thier monthly micropatches) do not normally go in with tweekers and adjust things. They go in with sledgehammers, bulldozers and dynomyte in order to destroy entire game play systems and replace them with a newer systems most recent example they gutted the entire inventory system and replaced it with newer guts to the point they can't back patch it anymore. In the future you may take a 1 year break from dust 514 and come back to a game you have no idea what the amarr happened and possibly even question 'wait this is dust 514 still?' it happens alot in Eve Online when an old player returns and requests a quick back up to speed post or they're so entirely confused of new things they have no idea how to play again. Even a better example, 10 years ago eve online looked like this. Eve earliest build Now adays it looks a bit closer to this Eve Inferno Expansion Trailer Imagine Dust 514 getting the same treatement as it moves onto the PS4 and beyond. Now that we understand our developer a bit better you know have to understand the beta better. This game is a definite work in progress, where as most developers would call this phase here an alpha, ccp does things weird and calls it a beta, all because the alpha build was an exploration to see feasibility before committing an entire studio to it and the competition against it at the time was the choice of going RTS which oddly enough this game feels like an First person RTS without the general yet. I am not saying 'you're lucky to get in,' but beta testing still should be considered a voulenteer privilage. I mean what sort of voulenteer for adopt of highway really complains about how unclean the highway he adopted is? I have only been though two builds and those who been though three of them see the same marked improvments, graphics are slowly getting toned up every patch, gunplay is improving every patch, they are listening and working hard, just right now the developer have a bad habbit of talking back in well known places. Leaving responses in places such as twitter or IRC channels. So now its time to understand your role in this beta testing. Things we are mostly currently testing now is 'foundations' basically major game features and server handeling which are all very critically important to final product. I mean we recently turned on the persona servers that handle our characters information. We also connected Dust 514's market with Eve onlines servers, which had a markedly vast improvment over previous builds response times. We're not into balance phase which honestly this game will never be perfectly balanced and its probably intentional. We are also testing user ease as well so the features get heavily replied to so certain abilty to access certain features are getting toned up a bit to make the game hopefully less confusing. We are also number generators producing copuious amounts of numbers for stats guys in charge of balancing can make adjustments with, for example they want to know why people like breach better than the tactial. Finally we are here to complain about the less than stellar gunplay atm and lack of smooth fun at least. Major bugs do appear time to time the whole reason why the old biomass skirmish map was removed because it caused a massive memory leak, hard crashing the ps3. Dust 514 players helped ccp find the issue of that crash. They're also seemingly more focused on getting things onto the battlefield rather balancing them right now and only doing brute force balances to prevent overuse of weapons. Without a full battleifield picture its extremly hard to get an idea how strong something is agianst 'every' situation. If you think current build is bad, you should build a time machine and play the previous three builds maybe you can get an apperciation for how well the game is improving per patch. CCP doesnt patch with tweezers they get sledgehammers and concrete trucks. If you want to help out however keep leaving feedback on the things that are broken. Things you think are undertonned or overpowered, and real examples of pay to win (the last one they fixed very quick), and if this build already burnt you out take a break come back mid august when hopefully the new build is out and take new notes then. Leaving 'this sucks' doesnt help, leaving 'this sucks because...' works. This isnt a final product that needs polish that would be like open beta week, whenever that is. This is a really rough marble block that still needs hammering and chiseling still and form. This point of the game is where most other developers would have friends and family only alpha. Rinse, patch, repeate until end of time.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:31:00 - [2] - Quote While the last build had worse graphics, and worse hit detection, it was mad as a box of frogs. Scouts were like super speed, militia heavies killed Proto assaults and in general, the terrible lag/FPS was forgiven because it was new and fun and didn't play much like anything else. Oh and people actually used vehicles other than Marauders and Free drop ships. Well, it played a bit like mag actually. But not that much ;)
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:49:00 - [3] - Quote This :)
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 16:51:00 - [4] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: This :) Adopting this.
Gatsu Scarz Bragian Order Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:19:00 - [5] - Quote All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:19:00 - [6] - Quote updated op furthering the point better.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 17:24:00 - [7] - Quote Gatsu Scarz wrote: All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see. Because there are people who think this is near final product.
whoshotcha79 15	Posted - 2012.07.29 21:34:00 - [8] - Quote Absolutely agree.eople act like its already been released I say take their access away if you cant objectively.test the game for what it is intsead of acting like your entitled to everything you want at day one . Were hete to build this brand new game from from the ground up if you dont want to be apart of these times that have issues then come back later and see if you change your opinion I for one.think many of these spoiled brat gamers will be eating their words acting like they knew all along it would turn out great . I say thank you to ccp for letting me be a part of this proccess so early and I cant wait for every new thing regardless if its carroed by a tweezer or a dumptruck
DON RODIE II Deep Space Republic 168	Posted - 2012.07.29 22:02:00 - [9] - Quote Gatsu Scarz wrote: All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see. Did you play BF3 beta? I did, it was worst than this beta. But BF3 is the best first person shooter out right now. BF3 beta was horrible. I do not think the final product of this game will be like the beta. This game look like its going to be deep.
Panda's Assistant Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 2	Posted - 2012.07.29 22:35:00 - [10] - Quote DON RODIE II wrote: Gatsu Scarz wrote: All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see. Did you play BF3 beta? I did, it was worst than this beta. But BF3 is the best first person shooter out right now. BF3 beta was horrible. I do not think the final product of this game will be like the beta. This game look like its going to be deep. I played the BF3 Beta as well. It was terrible. Sink holes that you couldnt be able to see. After few weeks they partially fixed it but still. Such as the game came out. It has became better and better. Dust has surplus past BF3 beta. I follow CCP and know how they do thier updates. Dust is deep such as EVE Online. Loving Dust

xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.07.29 22:39:00 - [11] - Quote it's PAY-TO-WIN doe
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.29 23:02:00 - [12] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example?
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.30 09:37:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example? Top tier weapons tend to have an Aurum version using about 50% less CPU and PG, yet may or may not have improved stats beyond that. That CPU/PG Saving enables more or better modules and fittings. IIRC one of the Aurum swarm launchers have an extra rocket in a load, effectively a 20% damage increase.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.30 09:43:00 - [14] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example? Top tier weapons tend to have an Aurum version using about 50% less CPU and PG, yet may or may not have improved stats beyond that. That CPU/PG Saving enables more or better modules and fittings. IIRC one of the Aurum swarm launchers have an extra rocket in a load, effectively a 20% damage increase. I suggest you need to make a thread about that swarm launcher then if it is the case then. As for the CPU/GRID weapons they're supposed to be early access weapons so to say, to allow fitting of more gear with lesser stress on modules without dumping so many skill points into weapon upgrades. None the less the marked difference in possible gear fittable before and after doesnt improve dropsuit performance 'that' much.
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2012.07.30 09:49:00 - [15] - Quote The arum weapon ive found to be slightly OP is the AV grenades Hollow something you do get isk grenades that do the same damage and all that but you can only through them about 2 feet making them pointless. im not complaining i use these grenades killed many a tank (and drop ship, they get a nasty surprise when they try to squash me) has anyone else found this out or found an isk grenade thats better ?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.30 09:52:00 - [16] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example? Top tier weapons tend to have an Aurum version using about 50% less CPU and PG, yet may or may not have improved stats beyond that. That CPU/PG Saving enables more or better modules and fittings. IIRC one of the Aurum swarm launchers have an extra rocket in a load, effectively a 20% damage increase. VERY slight advantages, and yes, there are a few points that are worth calling out. And yes, the fitting advantage is VERY minor for AUR gear, but a couple of the Prototype items have a few too many advantages against their lack of disadvantages. It would be nice if the lowered fitting requirements came with lower stats as well - like a Prototype AUR item with reduced fitting requirements would have the lowest possible PG/CPU use, but to balance that, would only have stats on par with the Advanced model rather than having Prototype stats and the hugely reduced requirements to go with them. AUR "Standard" gear that's basically Advanced gear with reduce requirements, and Advanced-level Prototype gear is fine, because all you're buying is reduced skill prereqs, but the reduced fitting requirements AND a stat bonus combined in one item is too much, and I think the fitting reductions are, at least for some items, more than should be given for AUR gear. In spite of that, skill > gear + skills in many cases - even as someone who's NOT a particularly good player, I can often beat Prototype and even AUR gear with Militia equipment and the Merc Pack infinite-use bonuses. As for the OP, great thread, +1 and agree with pretty much everything. There's no real pay-to-win, the real-money purchases are SMALL advantages, not enough to turn the tide against someone better, but they CAN tip the balance when you're fighting someone who's otherwise on equal ground with you. Just like spending more ISK on your gear, or having more SPs than the other guy can give you enough of an advantage to more consistently beat someone you'd normally be 50/50 with.
Spazzeh BHD Better Hide R Die 16	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:30:00 - [17] - Quote It's a beta. Betas are where THINGS GET FIXED!
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:38:00 - [18] - Quote Spazzeh BHD wrote: It's a beta. Betas are where THINGS GET FIXED! This is the Beta forums, this is where things get pointed out
Spazzeh BHD Better Hide R Die 16	Posted - 2012.07.30 11:55:00 - [19] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Spazzeh BHD wrote: It's a beta. Betas are where THINGS GET FIXED! This is the Beta forums, this is where things get pointed out Right. Not where people call it a beta and say that "it's not perfect" and give excuses on why it shouldn't/can't be fixed.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.30 17:01:00 - [20] - Quote Well to prove a point to myself yesterday went around ambush maps in only milita gear, still managed to keep a positive kill death ratio.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.30 17:01:00 - [21] - Quote Spazzeh BHD wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Spazzeh BHD wrote: It's a beta. Betas are where THINGS GET FIXED! This is the Beta forums, this is where things get pointed out Right. Not where people call it a beta and say that "it's not perfect" and give excuses on why it shouldn't/can't be fixed. Dunno we're more like giving excuses as to why something isnt out yet.
Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.07.30 18:33:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Gatsu Scarz wrote: All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see. Because there are people who think this is near final product. Because it SHOULD be near final product at this stage of the game's development. From what I know they are still releasing this in only a few short months (fall 2012). I think everyone is worried that this game will launch without being fully ready, without being fully polished. I'm expecting 60fps, console aim-assist, hit-box hits every time, grenade/mine/remote explosives HUD indicator, RE timer to set and detonate, full group PVE experience, full tutorial for new players with voice acting (all of the COD beginner tutorials with that Scottish drill instructor), fixed spawn-camping, fixed dropship crushing abuse, EVE's amazing character creator in Dust514, all at crisp anti-aliased Unreal Engine graphics. This is what I was expecting in June, and I think most people will expect the same. From the current build that we are seeing this is an increasingly difficult task to accomplish by Fall 2012.
Spazzeh BHD Better Hide R Die 16	Posted - 2012.08.12 02:57:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spazzeh BHD wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Spazzeh BHD wrote: It's a beta. Betas are where THINGS GET FIXED! This is the Beta forums, this is where things get pointed out Right. Not where people call it a beta and say that "it's not perfect" and give excuses on why it shouldn't/can't be fixed. Dunno we're more like giving excuses as to why something isnt out yet. Perhaps. But still, Betas require input and feedback as it nears final release. Only a dumbass would say "It's a BETA! You should be considered lucky to get in!". 1. You can pay to get in, so your argument is invalid. If I paid $$$, then I damn well expect to have this treated as a final build. 2. BETAs require feedback. BETAs are for testing, so to say something doesn't need to be nerfed or changed should be encouraged for BETAs because there are flaws that SHOULD be pointed out and dealt with accordingly. To have someone ***** at someone else, saying that "it's a BETA. If you don't appreciate it, then your code should be given to someone else!" if the most infuriating and idiotic thing. BETAs require criticism and feedback. Thats the point for betas. TO TEST! This is a game that is tested by playing. If you aren't having fun and there are problems with the game, then they should be fixed. Since this is a BETA, there is no other time like now to bring those issues to light through feedback and criticism.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:10:00 - [24] - Quote Abner Kalen wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Gatsu Scarz wrote: All these guys screaming its Beta its like your trying to convince yourselfs somethin. I absolutly love the game no question but when browsing the foroum thats all i see. Because there are people who think this is near final product. Because it SHOULD be near final product at this stage of the game's development. From what I know they are still releasing this in only a few short months (fall 2012). I think everyone is worried that this game will launch without being fully ready, without being fully polished. I'm expecting 60fps, console aim-assist, hit-box hits every time, grenade/mine/remote explosives HUD indicator, RE timer to set and detonate, full group PVE experience, full tutorial for new players with voice acting (all of the COD beginner tutorials with that Scottish drill instructor), fixed spawn-camping, fixed dropship crushing abuse, EVE's amazing character creator in Dust514, all at crisp anti-aliased Unreal Engine graphics. This is what I was expecting in June, and I think most people will expect the same. From the current build that we are seeing this is an increasingly difficult task to accomplish by Fall 2012. Q4 2012 can be in spring 2013
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:13:00 - [25] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example? Top tier weapons tend to have an Aurum version using about 50% less CPU and PG, yet may or may not have improved stats beyond that. That CPU/PG Saving enables more or better modules and fittings. IIRC one of the Aurum swarm launchers have an extra rocket in a load, effectively a 20% damage increase. Wait, don't we go through this dance avery 3 weeks? Isn't it still the case that when the game goes full release all items will be available on the market for both ISK and AUR? SO even if a AUR Item had a 400% damage increase in the end it really wouldn't matter and you would not have to pay for it in AUR if you really wanted to get that item. Cause someone else would be selling it for ISK. Did something change? Or have our selective memories all been reset in anticipation of precursor? Edit* Also just read a little more through this thread and one poster claims that the game will not be release ready until drop ship crushing is "fixed" and another poster claims that if the Beta is not fun then something is wrong but then I was thinking, "What if I have fun crushing people with dropships?" If something gets "fixed" is that a step forward or backwards? And finally, no, I do not want any Scottish guy in my tutorials.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:19:00 - [26] - Quote Aighun wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: it's PAY-TO-WIN doe Example? Top tier weapons tend to have an Aurum version using about 50% less CPU and PG, yet may or may not have improved stats beyond that. That CPU/PG Saving enables more or better modules and fittings. IIRC one of the Aurum swarm launchers have an extra rocket in a load, effectively a 20% damage increase. Wait, don't we go through this dance avery 3 weeks? Isn't it still the case that when the game goes full release all items will be available on the market for both ISK and AUR? SO even if a AUR Item had a 400% damage increase in the end it really wouldn't matter and you would not have to pay for it in AUR if you really wanted to get that item. Cause someone else would be selling it for ISK. Did something change? Or have our selective memories all been reset in anticipation of precursor? AUR items (or any item for that manner) may not be for sale at start, but the plan is to allow all items to be sold by mercs. As for the CPU/PG weapons they're getting isk based competition in the next build called speicalist variants.


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