DUST Search - New Anti HAV tactic?

The dark cloud wrote:

i just had a brilliant idea how to take out strong HAV's. Just get a scout dropsuit, a decent swarm launcher (tier 2 should work), and then just wait in a good hidden spot and then when the HAV stands still for a second jump on it and spam the swarm launcher while tank surfing. Cause the swarm launcher has allmost 0 splash damage you should be aible to destroy a sagaris quickly before you kill yourself in the final explosion of the HAV. Cause swarms even detonate on impact when they are shot up close and with no lock on. I did this against dropships who try to flat me. Just take the proto swarm launcher as example how much damage you could deal with this:
Damage per missile: 350
missiles shot: 6
damage output: without bonuses from skills: 2100
mag size: 4
total damage output: 8400
(works with the tier 2 launcher that costs AUR aswell)

If that isnt enough then i would recommend as final stand a few remote explosives. Also Some biotics that buff the stamina should help aswell to get on the tank. I think this is a possible tactic. When i can pull it off to place 6 drop uplinks at once in the match then i can do this aswell.

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The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.07.24 03:19:00 - [1] - Quote i just had a brilliant idea how to take out strong HAV's. Just get a scout dropsuit, a decent swarm launcher (tier 2 should work), and then just wait in a good hidden spot and then when the HAV stands still for a second jump on it and spam the swarm launcher while tank surfing. Cause the swarm launcher has allmost 0 splash damage you should be aible to destroy a sagaris quickly before you kill yourself in the final explosion of the HAV. Cause swarms even detonate on impact when they are shot up close and with no lock on. I did this against dropships who try to flat me. Just take the proto swarm launcher as example how much damage you could deal with this: Damage per missile: 350 missiles shot: 6 damage output: without bonuses from skills: 2100 mag size: 4 total damage output: 8400 (works with the tier 2 launcher that costs AUR aswell) If that isnt enough then i would recommend as final stand a few remote explosives. Also Some biotics that buff the stamina should help aswell to get on the tank. I think this is a possible tactic. When i can pull it off to place 6 drop uplinks at once in the match then i can do this aswell.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2012.07.24 03:24:00 - [2] - Quote Till the turret blasts you to hell, or his gunners...
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.07.24 03:27:00 - [3] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: i just had a brilliant idea how to take out strong HAV's. Just get a scout dropsuit, a decent swarm launcher (tier 2 should work), and then just wait in a good hidden spot and then when the HAV stands still for a second jump on it and spam the swarm launcher while tank surfing. Cause the swarm launcher has allmost 0 splash damage you should be aible to destroy a sagaris quickly before you kill yourself in the final explosion of the HAV. Cause swarms even detonate on impact when they are shot up close and with no lock on. I did this against dropships who try to flat me. Just take the proto swarm launcher as example how much damage you could deal with this: Damage per missile: 350 missiles shot: 6 damage output: without bonuses from skills: 2100 mag size: 4 total damage output: 8400 (works with the tier 2 launcher that costs AUR aswell) If that isnt enough then i would recommend as final stand a few remote explosives. Also Some biotics that buff the stamina should help aswell to get on the tank. I think this is a possible tactic. When i can pull it off to place 6 drop uplinks at once in the match then i can do this aswell. I've had people try to surf my tank and shoot me with a swarm launcher, but the spread of the swarms is too angular and doesn't damage my tank.
Gelan Corbaine BetaMax. 103	Posted - 2012.07.24 03:38:00 - [4] - Quote eh.......i'll stick with my forge gun.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.24 03:41:00 - [5] - Quote That would not kill my Sagaris. My weakest one (anti tank not anti-infantry) has 6,632 shields, and a 60.75% resist counting stacking penalties, plus a triggerable 328shields/pulse (1640 total). Not even counting the booster that is an EHP of 16,896. Then there is the 1250 points of armor with a 14% resist so another 1,453 needed damage to actually kill it. You need a place to have a nanohive or supply depot handy for constant bombardment, as that will only kill normal fits or bad marauder fits, as you need 11 or 12 salvos to actually kill me all in all.
Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.07.24 04:12:00 - [6] - Quote Works if you do it right. Usually requires a bit more risk than OP suggests and/or madd tank surfing skills. Luckily we're immortal mercs, so I'm sure we'll eventually have a squad or two of tank surfing av specialists.
McFurious BetaMax. 67	Posted - 2012.07.24 04:18:00 - [7] - Quote Wait for tank to stop, drop (3) RE's next to it, boom. Just like in BF3.
ilafey 29	Posted - 2012.07.24 04:20:00 - [8] - Quote What's EHP?
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.07.24 04:26:00 - [9] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: That would not kill my Sagaris. My weakest one (anti tank not anti-infantry) has 6,632 shields, and a 60.75% resist counting stacking penalties, plus a triggerable 328shields/pulse (1640 total). Not even counting the booster that is an EHP of 16,896. Then there is the 1250 points of armor with a 14% resist so another 1,453 needed damage to actually kill it. You need a place to have a nanohive or supply depot handy for constant bombardment, as that will only kill normal fits or bad marauder fits, as you need 11 or 12 salvos to actually kill me all in all. What the hell? How much CPU/PG has your sagaris? If i try this with my gunnlogi i can only spec to max shields (around 6OOO+) and maybe some amplifiers but thats it. And i allready use PG upgrades (+15% i think). Would also like to know how many slots you have in the shield category/PG category. Also you forget that you have plenty of time to react while up close i could spam rockets without locking on. Also Damage boosts aint calculated into this. B2T: well i got inspired by this at sunday night where 1 brave heavy jumped from the plattform onto a sagaris with his forgegun. As we other saw that we builded a crowd and spammed AV grenades at it. Till it blew up. The funny thing is the driver tried to run away and got chased by 6 people till we got him.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.07.24 04:34:00 - [10] - Quote ehp=Effective Hit Points The number of hit points with no resistance a tank is equivalent to. for example 1000hp with 25%resistance takes 3/4 damage, so it is 1333.33 ehp since it takes that much damage to remove its 1000 hit points. One of my hav fits had around 6200 shield and 1000 armour, but resists put it at about 13,000 ehp assuming the same stacking penalty as EvE(and no native resistance to boost it higher still, this isn't displayed but we don't know it is there or not)

carl von oppenheimer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 158	Posted - 2012.07.24 05:40:00 - [11] - Quote No my dear, EHP is the total maximum of hp's with resists added in. So 6000 shiel hp with 75% resists would be 10500 EHP.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.24 05:45:00 - [12] - Quote carl von oppenheimer wrote: No my dear, EHP is the total maximum of hp's with resists added in. So 6000 shiel hp with 75% resists would be 10500 EHP. 6000/.25=24000 The math is pretty simple, as ignoring three quarters of the damage means it should take four times the punishment, as in ignoring half the damage is taking twice the punishment.
carl von oppenheimer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 158	Posted - 2012.07.24 06:05:00 - [13] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: carl von oppenheimer wrote: No my dear, EHP is the total maximum of hp's with resists added in. So 6000 shiel hp with 75% resists would be 10500 EHP. 6000/.25=24000 The math is pretty simple, as ignoring three quarters of the damage means it should take four times the punishment, as in ignoring half the damage is taking twice the punishment. Nope do your math right a 75% increase is 1.75 x 6000 = 10500 amount increase would be 10500-6000 = 4500 which surprisingly is 75% from a 6000 wow. 4x would be 400% more hp as in your example, this is real math not "wow math".
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.24 06:15:00 - [14] - Quote No... A 75% resist means you are ignoring 75% of the damage... So, let us say you have 6000 shields and are getting shot by a 2000 damage gun... It is depleted in three strikes... If you get shot by a 2000 point gun and are ignoring 75% of the damage, then each shot is suddenly doing only 500 points... Which means it takes 12 shots (12500=6000)... This you can use to double check the math, so 200012shots=24000EHP... Your math is, to be blunt, complete and utter bullshit. Pardon me for being offended by a "wow math" comment, but I am completely certain that holding three degrees in Engineering and obtaining a 4th I should be able to do simple percentages by now. What you are doing is incorrect, because 1.75 insinuates that you are only 75% tougher, when in actuality you should be ignoring 75% which is a four-fold increase, not a three quarter increase, in survivability. This is "real math."
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.07.24 06:22:00 - [15] - Quote carl von oppenheimer wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: carl von oppenheimer wrote: No my dear, EHP is the total maximum of hp's with resists added in. So 6000 shiel hp with 75% resists would be 10500 EHP. 6000/.25=24000 The math is pretty simple, as ignoring three quarters of the damage means it should take four times the punishment, as in ignoring half the damage is taking twice the punishment. Nope do your math right a 75% increase is 1.75 x 6000 = 10500 amount increase would be 10500-6000 = 4500 which surprisingly is 75% from a 6000 wow. 4x would be 400% more hp as in your example, this is real math not "wow math". then what terrible math are you doing its 4 times more ehp. thats restatainces, not 75% more shields. and i love how you act so tough and brag about your terrible math skills
Mitchman 514 36	Posted - 2012.07.24 07:21:00 - [16] - Quote I'm curious how you know the effective resists, I can't see that anywhere (unfortunately it doesn't seem like eve in this regard) ?
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.24 07:27:00 - [17] - Quote You have to unfortunately calculate them by hand. Currently it is bugged where resists do not show up, and for vehicles neither does the shield/armor bonuses from skills. I think the damage bonuses from suits have the same glitch.
Chickenman NZL Algintal Core Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:00:00 - [18] - Quote carl von oppenheimer wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: carl von oppenheimer wrote: No my dear, EHP is the total maximum of hp's with resists added in. So 6000 shiel hp with 75% resists would be 10500 EHP. 6000/.25=24000 The math is pretty simple, as ignoring three quarters of the damage means it should take four times the punishment, as in ignoring half the damage is taking twice the punishment. Nope do your math right a 75% increase is 1.75 x 6000 = 10500 amount increase would be 10500-6000 = 4500 which surprisingly is 75% from a 6000 wow. 4x would be 400% more hp as in your example, this is real math not "wow math". Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: No... A 75% resist means you are ignoring 75% of the damage... So, let us say you have 6000 shields and are getting shot by a 2000 damage gun... It is depleted in three strikes... If you get shot by a 2000 point gun and are ignoring 75% of the damage, then each shot is suddenly doing only 500 points... Which means it takes 12 shots (12500=6000)... This you can use to double check the math, so 200012shots=24000EHP... Your math is, to be blunt, complete and utter bullshit. Pardon me for being offended by a "wow math" comment, but I am completely certain that holding three degrees in Engineering and obtaining a 4th I should be able to do simple percentages by now. What you are doing is incorrect, because 1.75 insinuates that you are only 75% tougher, when in actuality you should be ignoring 75% which is a four-fold increase, not a three quarter increase, in survivability. This is "real math." I'm going to initially play devils advocate here, but please allow me to finish. In the examples you both have given the maths is correct for the wording used. 6000HP with a 75% increase is 10500EHP. Just like 6000HP with a 75% damage resistance is 24000EHP. BUT having said that videogames (and RPGs for that matter) use differing modifiers depending on context. IE offensive items receive a damage increase and defensive items (shields) receive damage resistance. For this discussion though the correct modifier is damage resistance, not a HP increase
Scrote Schroder The Southern Legion 34	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:07:00 - [19] - Quote I count on my fingers. Also Chickenman NZL - o7 good to see a fellow Kiwi, hope to see you in-game mate.
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 153	Posted - 2012.07.24 13:01:00 - [20] - Quote For release, I can imagine in a game of 96 (48 a side), there would be at least 6-8 specialist AV. If four were equipped with swarm launchers, that would be 8k damage every launch, meaning 32k damage in very short time. If they are working as a group (as they should), that will be a sagaris destroyed in very short order.

Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.07.24 15:21:00 - [21] - Quote I was enjoying reading this thread until Chickenman ruined it lol. As he said you're both right for the wording you used, but the armor resists are calculated as Xocoyol described, though you wouldn't get close to the 75% figure you both worked on, if (as it should) it works the same as eve (which nobody is quite sure about yet), you'd get about half from the second, maybe a quarter from the third and practices nothing from a forth. 4 mods of the same type would give you at best about 45% resist, then a damage control might give you another 14% if memory serves. Edited : forgot to make my point ... As to the op, if an enemy manages to get on my HAV, I quickly move round the corner to my group of allies and if they don't shoot him I get their attention with a salvo of missiles !
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 259	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:07:00 - [22] - Quote First mod would be 100%, second would be about 87%, third would be about 57%, so if you wanted to burn three 25% resistances and a 14% DCU you can hit a 75% resist So the 5th slot better be the best shield extender in the game, heh. Great anti-tank fit just super slow to recover, horribly rubbish really and assuming you have max Shield Management then it might just work if you are super careful. http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking Granted, the most efficient shield resist you can obtain would be a pair of 25% resists and one DCU 14% for a total of 60.75% (Technically three 25% would give a smidge more about 60.99% but using just two and a DCU is better as it is slightly less CPU and gives an extra 14% resist for your armor).
Needless Sacermendor 98	Posted - 2012.07.24 17:56:00 - [23] - Quote Thought the fall off was more drastic than that, I'm not on eve much anymore, mainly log in to manufacture now to keep my accounts going and that's about it. I drive a Surya anyway, but there's too many AV troops now in this build, almost everyone has put some skills into a swarm launcher or forge gun depending what suit they've skilled, it's getting more risky to drive it, so I've built a nice proto swarm fit :-) (if you can't beat em ...)
Chickenman NZL Algintal Core Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:05:00 - [24] - Quote Laheon wrote: For release, I can imagine in a game of 96 (48 a side), there would be at least 6-8 specialist AV. If four were equipped with swarm launchers, that would be 8k damage every launch, meaning 32k damage in very short time. If they are working as a group (as they should), that will be a sagaris destroyed in very short order. Agreed. However that will require comms. And the moment, that's hit and miss at best. Hopefully more players pick up a cheap BT headset.
Chickenman NZL Algintal Core Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:14:00 - [25] - Quote Scrote Schroder wrote: I count on my fingers. Also Chickenman NZL - o7 good to see a fellow Kiwi, hope to see you in-game mate. I've seen a couple around the forums. I haven't been able to play much TBH. I have 6 month old twins, so my weekends are mostly family time at the moment. Then as well as that I'm in the process of buying a new business, so that's eaten up any last spare time I've had.
Chickenman NZL Algintal Core Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:18:00 - [26] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: I was enjoying reading this thread until Chickenman ruined it lol. Um yeah sorry my bad!
Quiverous Dark Harlequin 37	Posted - 2012.07.24 21:35:00 - [27] - Quote All this maths is making us sound like spreadsheet soldiers. If the pile of bodies allows you to board the MCC from the battlefield on foot, then my son your shields held.


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