DUST Search - Sagaris might be a little overpowered.

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Ryan Martel wrote:

Lilianna Sentinel wrote:

Zekain Kade wrote:

tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker.

only armor should be like that, not the shields.

That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home.

The Sagaris is a shield tank (Excuse the pun) so all that would do is just needlessly screw over armor tanks

Actually there is a fatal flaw in the Sargasis because of that. Shields rely on electronics and such to keep it functioning. Im certain that later on the DEVS are going to introduce electronic counter measures and once again happens the Sargasis might have a lot more to worry about.

But basically it goes like this, once the shields drop and it cannot regenerate them fast enough or not at all it's more or less an expensive paper militia tank. Everytime I have or someone else has taken a Sargasis tank down that is always the end result. Oh and just so you know my Sargasis scrap yard is currently home to about eight in a day's time now. ^_^

Weak spots might be interesting to implement but my question would be how could it work and would it make the tanks still plausible to use?

I think you're misunderstanding the concept of Electronic Warfare modules like in EVE. There is no magical thing that disrupts a ships shields, and there wont be because it would destroy the whole point of a shield tank and make them useless

You'll be happier once we get laser weapons, since Lasers deal EM or Thermal damage, which shields are weak against.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.07.04 17:13:00 - [1] - Quote I just a had a few matches where there was at least one Sagaris running around and it dominated EVERYONE. Now, believe me, I get it. You have to do incredibly well for 3 matches straight without dying once to break even(If you're including modules and ****). I understand. But even if they're in really cruddy gear, if half the team is concentrating on one tank and it is just wandering around out in the open, it shouldn't be functional by the end of the match. We really should narrow the gap between people who are experienced and people who haven't been playing long. This guy was kitted out, and because of that he might as well have been invincible in the face of all the people in the match stuck with Militia Heavy gear.
Ray seveN Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2012.07.04 20:18:00 - [2] - Quote The typical response would be "get a group of swarmers and take them down" with additional comments saying "Tactics first or you should plan and coordinate your attacks" followed by "I used X skill points to get here and X isk to pilot so I'd be damned if Y weapon with a Y suit kills my tank" I just have to say, if a tank literallt takes half the team's attention and 5 minutes of constant barraging with weapons it should die. Tanks are supposed to be the high risk high reward aspect of the game. Now its a very low risk with very high reward. There has been 0 times that I saw a sagaris' death go higher that 1. The match usually ends in 20-30/0, with one pilot bragging that he had 10mill in isk just from tanking alon . If that doesnt cover the cost of you're tank then I call BS
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.07.04 20:26:00 - [3] - Quote tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home.
Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.07.04 20:47:00 - [4] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home. The Sagaris is a shield tank (Excuse the pun) so all that would do is just needlessly screw over armor tanks
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.05 02:59:00 - [5] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home. The Sagaris is a shield tank (Excuse the pun) so all that would do is just needlessly screw over armor tanks Actually there is a fatal flaw in the Sargasis because of that. Shields rely on electronics and such to keep it functioning. Im certain that later on the DEVS are going to introduce electronic counter measures and once again happens the Sargasis might have a lot more to worry about. But basically it goes like this, once the shields drop and it cannot regenerate them fast enough or not at all it's more or less an expensive paper militia tank. Everytime I have or someone else has taken a Sargasis tank down that is always the end result. Oh and just so you know my Sargasis scrap yard is currently home to about eight in a day's time now. ^_^ Weak spots might be interesting to implement but my question would be how could it work and would it make the tanks still plausible to use?
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.05 03:03:00 - [6] - Quote I killed a Sagaris tonight with a militia swarm launcher. He had a bad "tank" (to use EVE talk) on that thing. The guys who dominate in Sagaris really know how to fit their tank. I agree they can be strong, but they are the BEST tank in the game right now, and we should need the best anti-tank stuff to kill them in a reasonable level. Get Prototype swarm launchers or forge cannons and try it then. Also, I'm a pilot also, vehicles are freaking expensive. I don't make enough isk in a game to pay for my prototype equipped dropship fitted in the best stuff. Sagaris are even more expensive. They're also massively skill-intensive. Just going to Vehicle command 4 to 5 is 256k skill points, and then you have 3 skill levels after that for the Sagaris. Probably a 4-5 million sp fit for everything.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.05 03:06:00 - [7] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home. you skill up in anti-tank stuff to kill the best tanks. They're supposed to dominate an under-skilled group in Militia launchers. I killed a bad Sagaris pilot tonight though with a militia launcher. It can be done, but if they are good, it requires teamwork.
Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.07.05 03:11:00 - [8] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: I killed a Sagaris tonight with a militia swarm launcher. He had a bad "tank" (to use EVE talk) on that thing. The guys who dominate in Sagaris really know how to fit their tank. I agree they can be strong, but they are the BEST tank in the game right now, and we should need the best anti-tank stuff to kill them in a reasonable level. Get Prototype swarm launchers or forge cannons and try it then. I think it should be flexible. We shouldn't expect the entire team to have put in the SP required to get the anti-vehicle stuff. But I do agree that this should be a significant advantage. But when it comes down to it, if there are 6 people focusing on your tank with militia swarm launchers, it should go down. There should never be a situation where "Oops, no one on your team invested the millions of SP necessary in a niche role so now this enemy is invincible. Sorry!" Having to do this in itself is a major blow against your team. So it's not unreasonable to expect a tank to go down in the face of that. Just that anti-tank measures means you have to devote less human resources to the annoying Sagaris roaming the battlefield.
MrShooter01 Expert Intervention Caldari State 268	Posted - 2012.07.05 03:24:00 - [9] - Quote Ray seveN wrote: The typical response would be "get a group of swarmers and take them down" with additional comments saying "Tactics first or you should plan and coordinate your attacks" followed by "I used X skill points to get here and X isk to pilot so I'd be damned if Y weapon with a Y suit kills my tank" I just have to say, if a tank literallt takes half the team's attention and 5 minutes of constant barraging with weapons it should die. Tanks are supposed to be the high risk high reward aspect of the game. Now its a very low risk with very high reward. There has been 0 times that I saw a sagaris' death go higher that 1. The match usually ends in 20-30/0, with one pilot bragging that he had 10mill in isk just from tanking alon . If that doesnt cover the cost of you're tank then I call BS I personally don't see anything wrong with having something in the game force players to work together, even if it means some guy splatters them for a while. It would be a shame if every situation in the game could be resolved by a single lone wolf with a specific fitting. However the game needs some kind of system to teach players how to properly deal with threats like this instead of just having them die to the point of giving up. Some kind of UI popup that goes "Hey, Rambo! That's a MAURAUDER, you can't kill it on your own! Get help!", and some kind of UI system for coordinating people with anti-vehicle weapons. For example highlighting teammates with AV weapons, and a spotting icon/squad command icon along the lines of "Focus fire on this vehicle!" visible through walls just like the regular spotted vehicle icon
Card Chaozian 14	Posted - 2012.07.05 04:39:00 - [10] - Quote I just wanted to say I've killed one in about 3-5 seconds with my other character. It was moving up on C (after killing half my team, and myself, earlier which is why I spawned Anti-Vehicle). A pair of tier 1 AV grenades and two shots from my prototype swarm launcher blasted through it's shields and health before it could even start moving out of range. I'm not saying this to brag, I'm saying that there already are one-to-one counters in place. Even the best tanks can be ambushed and killed by someone with good anti-vehicle gear. And if you think CCP has a problem with the idea of a team being completely dominated because it doesn't have the right setup then you don't seem to have heard much about EVE.

Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.07.05 04:48:00 - [11] - Quote Card Chaozian wrote: And if you think CCP has a problem with the idea of a team being completely dominated because it doesn't have the right setup then you don't seem to have heard much about EVE. EVE doesn't have the hard player limits that Dust 514 does. In fact, I actually read about one of Goonswarm's early tactics was basically just to recruit newbies en masse to swarm tougher ships and chip away at their health. For the most part, it actually worked. But in a situation where we have a limited number of players, there should always be an option to take down an opponent. ADDENDUM: Not to mention how in EVE Online, it is designed so that players in rookie ships aren't going to placed in situations where they have to face down battleships. It scales upwards as their experience grows, assuming they don't go out of their way. In Dust, you could be placed with anyone in a match.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.07.05 05:15:00 - [12] - Quote Ryan Martel wrote: Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home. The Sagaris is a shield tank (Excuse the pun) so all that would do is just needlessly screw over armor tanks Actually there is a fatal flaw in the Sargasis because of that. Shields rely on electronics and such to keep it functioning. Im certain that later on the DEVS are going to introduce electronic counter measures and once again happens the Sargasis might have a lot more to worry about. But basically it goes like this, once the shields drop and it cannot regenerate them fast enough or not at all it's more or less an expensive paper militia tank. Everytime I have or someone else has taken a Sargasis tank down that is always the end result. Oh and just so you know my Sargasis scrap yard is currently home to about eight in a day's time now. ^_^ Weak spots might be interesting to implement but my question would be how could it work and would it make the tanks still plausible to use? I think you're misunderstanding the concept of Electronic Warfare modules like in EVE. There is no magical thing that disrupts a ships shields, and there wont be because it would destroy the whole point of a shield tank and make them useless You'll be happier once we get laser weapons, since Lasers deal EM or Thermal damage, which shields are weak against.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.05 07:16:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ryan Martel wrote: Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: tanks need weak spots. Sort of like how tanks are in BF3. their front is their strongest point armor wise, while their sides are 20% weaker, and the back is 40% weaker. only armor should be like that, not the shields. That way, players can actually form a plan on how to take the thing out. either by surrounding it, or ambushing it some home. The Sagaris is a shield tank (Excuse the pun) so all that would do is just needlessly screw over armor tanks Actually there is a fatal flaw in the Sargasis because of that. Shields rely on electronics and such to keep it functioning. Im certain that later on the DEVS are going to introduce electronic counter measures and once again happens the Sargasis might have a lot more to worry about. But basically it goes like this, once the shields drop and it cannot regenerate them fast enough or not at all it's more or less an expensive paper militia tank. Everytime I have or someone else has taken a Sargasis tank down that is always the end result. Oh and just so you know my Sargasis scrap yard is currently home to about eight in a day's time now. ^_^ Weak spots might be interesting to implement but my question would be how could it work and would it make the tanks still plausible to use? I think you're misunderstanding the concept of Electronic Warfare modules like in EVE. There is no magical thing that disrupts a ships shields, and there wont be because it would destroy the whole point of a shield tank and make them useless You'll be happier once we get laser weapons, since Lasers deal EM or Thermal damage, which shields are weak against. Then by contrast wouldn't EMP grenades as they allude to do EM/Thermal damage?


Pages: 1 :: [one page]