DUST Search - Getting Some Feelers

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Alena Asakura wrote:

byte modal wrote:

Aiwha Bait wrote:

4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO?

Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel?

If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here.

Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work?

It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there.

Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link.

Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link?


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byte modal 1101	Posted - 2016.11.19 16:37:00 - [1] - Quote Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1102	Posted - 2016.11.20 03:52:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: byte modal wrote: Aiwha Bait wrote: 4. What is with the big obsession surrounding a link to CCP's MMO? Seems to be the underlying point of this thread. Come on guys. Surely I'm not the only cynic left here.... Tell us how you really feel? If CCP wishes to have anything more than a passing mediocre FPS then they need to approach it differently than other FPS games. A general shooter in space brings nothing unique to the table, especially considering the changing landscape here. Use what you know: EvE. And bring the already existing history and environment with it. Impress the press. Get noticed and grow. Or don't. Make something less than DUST. But hey. At least hit detection might work? It's fairly straightforward for me. There's no point in a FPS from CCP that doesn't have the EvE link. Everything in the New Eden has the EvE link in some form. Leave it out and there's just no point. There are better FPS's out there. Both Gunjack and Valkyrie have zero EVE link. Are there other titles I'm not aware of thatare in New Eden with an EVE link? Both are novelties in VR. DUST/Legion/Not Legion are average FPS titles if only standalone. Just giving my opinion. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1102	Posted - 2016.11.20 05:22:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: So...you think that the EVE link is the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles? Because as far I remember there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated to the pathetically weak EVE link. I think you're missing the point. I don't think the link to EvE was the only meaningful difference between DUST and other FPS titles. As you pointed out, there were a shitload of other elements that were completely unrelated that separated it from other titles: hit detection, frame rate, balance, obsolete platform, poor management, glitches, known SP boosting bugs, etc. I am suggesting that some number of players came to DUST with the expectation of something resembling the universe they marketed. Some number of players came from EvE expecting a boots-on-the-ground extension of that universe and lore. SOON our markets would connect and SOON industries and PVP would overlap. That did not happen. Despite the several truly unique conceptual aspects of DUST, it simply did not become what many thought it was going to. Player count was never great and only dropped as people realized what was not going to play out among other reasons. And there were a few reasons. I am not saying CCP can't make a good standalone FPS. They just didn't. Even if they do at some hypothetical point in the future, what would make it unique enough to attract a larger player base to keep progression and balance in check? My opinion is to do what they initially wanted. I bought into the DUST dream (or hype depending on your perspective) and absolutely wanted that connection because that was something truly unique and special. That was enough for me to wade through the muck of it all on the hopes of 'one day when.' That is partly why I still linger here on this forum. I know I am not the only one. I am also of the idealistic belief that CCP is something special. They have the vision and potential talent to create something as special. They have an entire universe at their disposal. Use it? Else just make another shooter. Are there not enough of those already? Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1103	Posted - 2016.11.20 20:19:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: byte modal wrote: [quote=Pokey Dravon] Whether you agree or not, surely you can empathize. I get it, I really do. But let me ask you this then. EVE Online obviously has elements you greatly admire and feel make it a fantastic game, despite it currently having zero connection to any other game at the moment. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Nova has those same sort of elements, that same sort of "magic", and also had zero connection to any other game...would you not also admire and enjoy that game? I guess I don't understand the sentiment that the only way Nova can be extraordinary is if it clings to the heels of a different game....it just seems kind of sad to sell it short like that. And the really sad part is that even if the game is extraordinary and embodies all of the elements that made EVE and Dust enjoyable....many people simply won't give it a chance or will be horribly biased, simply because it isn't clinging to the bootstraps of EVE. No. I'm not sure you see where my perspective is grounded. That's on me for poorly translating an idealist notion. Sorry for that. As Alena commented, the connection is New Eden; and by extension, the creativity and wonder that was born of CCP years ago. It (NOVA) does not have to be connected to the world of EvE to be fun. Let me state that one more time: NOVE does NOT have to be connected to the world of EvE to be fun. That is not my argument. CCP has already established something grand with EvE. With something like EvE in your portfolio, why bother with the effort of developing another FPS when "that" game already exists. By "that" game, I mean any FPS that is already behind any other well-established FPS franchise on the shelf today. Hell, even EvE itself isn't all that unique anymore. A side note: I'm curious how much, if at all, this debate plays out in NOVA closed door sessions. Interesting. CCP has demonstrated great ambition and a damned stubbornness in working to develop a gaming world that matches that ambition. Use it. Be ground-breaking. Be ambitious, but learn from the mistakes of DUST. Don't paint my words please. I do not claim NOVA can't be extraordinary without clinging to the heels of EvE. I am suggesting that without the novelty of EvE (New Eden), NOVA is starting at the gate already handicapped in a saturated market that WILL continue to evolve beyond the run and gun that NOVA would be aiming for. That would be like developing a massive evolving game on an outdated platform like the PS3. Oh. Wait. I developed Google. Let's put all our resources into developing a calculator now to keep up with an ever-changing market. No!? It is sad, I can agree. Creating yet another shooter is terribly short-sighted from a marketing perspective, given the scope of what CCP has demonstrated and changing standards. Unfortunately, poor leadership within CCP continually contradicts those ambitions and undermines its own efforts. If they make the game as you describe, it may be fine. I will not refuse to play it, but I will be terribly disappointed in CCP for having an opportunity to create something more while choosing to create something safe, if not dead in the water by release date while other developers are willing to take that risk. To sum this rambling up: let's develop a web page using Adobe PageMill for an average screen resolution of 800x600 and expect to compete with HTML5 responsive interfaces when everything goes mobile at launch. Sure we could do it, but why? Do better. You're totally capable. Still though, <3<3<3 kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1106	Posted - 2016.11.20 23:40:00 - [5] - Quote Loot-based PVE Legit player market True tiered player progression to prevent newb stomping Skill progression Manufacturing enough to BE self-contained Eh basically cloning EvE without actually using it. But I think this topic is for another thread. Also reevaluate skill progression. Too soon too fast was weird and created more problems to chase. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1110	Posted - 2016.11.22 00:18:00 - [6] - Quote I bit my tongue with my reply, so add most everything Alena said to my earlier post to help solidify my opinion. I entertained the idea of what if for the sake of conversation, but honestly? I see no point in conversation or the game if the basis of discussion starts with the assumption of no link for all reasons already listed. Regrettably. For me, there is no going forward from that. If that's the cap, then I will be disappointed in squandered potential. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1112	Posted - 2016.11.22 19:18:00 - [7] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Pokey, I think what Alena is trying to convey is he'd like New Eden to be the Marvel Cinematic universe, and you're supporting canning the 3rd Avengers film to make another Thor <3<3<3 If only I could be efficient. I. Am. Jelly. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1112	Posted - 2016.11.22 21:09:00 - [8] - Quote lol. big hugs to everyone. tough thread. emotional thread kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 04:25:00 - [9] - Quote Yeah. 'Cept I think he was pretty up front about it being his opinion. And It's not that unique as I'm pretty much of the same opinion. We've both said we'll play the game and hopefully it will be enjoyable. That is another matter from still being disappointed at the missed potential. This thread is weird. Also, nice generalizations in the episode cough. A few good observations were made, but sigh at redefining Kats who would enjoy the link as whining they will never play it. We've said we will play it. And will likely have fun at it. That's not the topic. Triggered? Nah. Just more disappointment from names I generally respect. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 15:42:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah. I admit I'm pissy. lol. Sorry if I'm venting some of that here a bit. More than just the forums these past two weeks. This thread though!! ;) Still, in context of the political climate we've just survived, regardless of your position it's always been a pet peeve of mine to simplify the opposing view to the lowest hanging fruit. That's easy. That's not a discussion. That's generalizing the easiest target when the opposing view isn't even represented. Disappointment is broader. Through all the distilling of personalities here since the server shutdown, those left are those I've come to find considerate and open-minded in discussion of conflicting views. Without the conflict. Eh. I suppose I *was* triggered. Just I expected more from those I respect. Too, EvE and now the remnants of DUST have taken sentimental spots in me. I tend to be idealistic and want to improve things to their best possible potential. It's not so much about a game, as it is about the idea of what a game is by challenging the context of other games around it. IMHO, DUST failed its potential. That's not to say the potential is wrong, just the method in which aspects of DUST were watered down for a variety of reasons were wrong. Pointing to Orbitals, FacWar, etc., leads the discussion within the confines of just those limited possibilities of an obsolete game. Most of which failed depending on your measure. For me, it's difficult to have a discussion about what I would personally hope for in NOVA if the conversation is restricted to just the failures of its predecessor. For me, the questions should be more in line with "Why were Orbitals never really expanded on to give pilots a true incentive for playing or for feeling they had a reasonable sense of control in the outcome of the ground battles?" Granted, it was on the ps3 and with an original dev team with little experience, but the conversation is for what NOVA could be in context of DUST's shortcomings. Those few integrations were weak. Maybe they were the easiest to achieve given all the restrictions. Are we still restricted with NOVA? What is realistic in that context? Perhaps there are more interesting yet practical approaches that could be explored for NOVA that would never have seen the light of day in DUST. That is a discussion---assuming the topic is our opinions on the connection or lack of a connection to EvE. I thought it was. Use DUST as a lesson learned and adapt. Or scrap it and die. What's good for the goose, and all. That's what I thought it was all about ;) At the end of the day though, this is all moot. We are left with what we are left with, which at the moment is nothing and only hopes of something significantly less than CCP's potential. Again, this is my opinion and nothing more. kitten bacon taco (nom)

byte modal 1115	Posted - 2016.11.29 17:48:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah. I agree, really. It is what it is. Most of my commenting here really is to the OP I guess, with a recent flavor from the biomass ep ;) I did edit my post above to elaborate on the type of questions I would have enjoyed. Honest, I don't think I've listened to the show before so I may have my voices mixed up with who is saying what. Host's comments I thought were thorough and well balanced, given the original restrictions of the topic offered. bla bla bla. I ramble. OK, lunch break. I've gotten paid enough to forum rant today. kitten bacon taco (nom)