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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7884
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Posted - 2016.07.10 04:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
10376
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Posted - 2016.07.10 05:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7884
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Posted - 2016.07.10 05:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy RUST415
4664
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Posted - 2016.07.10 06:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. [Morgan Freeman>>> He's right you know<<<]
I am the Anti-FoTM
Fear my Cal Assault and Amarr Scout!
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1152
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Posted - 2016.07.10 06:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers Actually, if you're talking about the suit featured on the splash screen, I believe that suit is in fact that Caldari Scout, not the Assault. Unless my memory is failing me, that is. |
Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1740
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Posted - 2016.07.10 07:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers Actually, if you're talking about the suit featured on the splash screen, I believe that suit is in fact that Caldari Scout, not the Assault. Unless my memory is failing me, that is. The DUST site featured the Caldari Assault with the Assault Rifle, and many other wallpapers or footage included that dropsuit. Which is why the Caldari Assault is seen as the mascot by many here, he'll the devs have it as their avatar.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1152
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Posted - 2016.07.10 08:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers Actually, if you're talking about the suit featured on the splash screen, I believe that suit is in fact that Caldari Scout, not the Assault. Unless my memory is failing me, that is. The DUST site featured the Caldari Assault with the Assault Rifle, and many other wallpapers or footage included that dropsuit. Which is why the Caldari Assault is seen as the mascot by many here, he'll the devs have it as their avatar. Ah, I see. I don't think I took too much notice of that. I mainly saw the splash screen every time I logged in... :)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
13079
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Posted - 2016.07.10 09:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers
Since we're theorycrafting, I'll use the real-world use these would be put to:
Sentinel: Fire support for an infantry push. Militarily, the only reason one would armor and arm up something like a sentinel is if they were expected to spend lots of time in the open, exposed to enemy fire. Open-ground fire support, vulnerable to fast-movers in close would be the realistic military result of the sentinel. Military equipment that would be expected to have sufficient cover and external protections to keep it from being casually gibbed would result in the defenses having been sharply pared down to save on costs.
Commando: This would have been a heavy combat vanguard/shocktrooper. Not special Forces, but the first soldiers and marines charging headlong into enemy fire to sow havoc. This is the kind of thing the USMC, for example, would kill to get their hands on were the dropsuit classes actually available. This would be the kind of suit you charge open ground with, or kick in doors in urban combat.
Logistics: Would have been medics, resupply and defensive fortification engineers, not just attached to the fatties at the hip.
Assaults: Majority of main-line infantry. You would see a full company of these guys for 20 commandos, and maybe 6-10 sentinels. Maybe ten logis to provide support to the company.
Scouts: Only a squad worth, so about ten who comprise the early-warning defense/outriders and sentry assassinations. A cloaked scout with a clear comms signal would be far more valuable than a platoon of assaults.
Yes, I am a Goon. No, I don't care about your spacepolitik.
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DUST Fiend
18440
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Posted - 2016.07.10 10:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
The only suit I tend to wear is the pilot suit, AKA my armor plated heavy
Lord of all things salty, purveyor of gloomish doom and naysayer extraordinaire.
AV Incubus Specialist, Ex Prometheus
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7884
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Something has bothered me for a long time with Dust- the clear difference between what dropsuits players use, and how they actually play.
Assaults have always been the most common, but it seems to me like the vast majority of assault players played like commandos and sentinels- grinding through the front line.
Why is that? Seems to me like the reason is that assaults have always been presented as the regular, go-to dropsuit for any situation. Every trailer is centered on them, and Dust's mascot is the Caldari assault. Currently, Nova's mascot is the Gallente assault.
Should there be more focus placed on heavy frames, to reflect how players actually play the game?
Of course, this goes by my personal perspective of the dropsuit roles: Heavies: sit in the heaviest fighting on the front line Logis: support the heavies Assaults: maneuver to take pressure off the front line Scouts: sneak around taking ungaurded points and picking off snipers/AVers Since we're theorycrafting, I'll use the real-world use these would be put to: Sentinel: Fire support for an infantry push. Militarily, the only reason one would armor and arm up something like a sentinel is if they were expected to spend lots of time in the open, exposed to enemy fire. Open-ground fire support, vulnerable to fast-movers in close would be the realistic military result of the sentinel. Military equipment that would be expected to have sufficient cover and external protections to keep it from being casually gibbed would result in the defenses having been sharply pared down to save on costs. Commando: This would have been a heavy combat vanguard/shocktrooper. Not special Forces, but the first soldiers and marines charging headlong into enemy fire to sow havoc. This is the kind of thing the USMC, for example, would kill to get their hands on were the dropsuit classes actually available. This would be the kind of suit you charge open ground with, or kick in doors in urban combat. Logistics: Would have been medics, resupply and defensive fortification engineers, not just attached to the fatties at the hip. Assaults: Majority of main-line infantry. You would see a full company of these guys for 20 commandos, and maybe 6-10 sentinels. Maybe ten logis to provide support to the company. Scouts: Only a squad worth, so about ten who comprise the early-warning defense/outriders and sentry assassinations. A cloaked scout with a clear comms signal would be far more valuable than a platoon of assaults. Edit: And the main infantry would still think the heavy guys are just a buncha lazy, muscle-headed slackers who lift iron to look good (not because we often had to pack 80-120 pounds of equipment in the field individually depending on the situation) You're forgetting how differently everything works in Dust.
You don't have to worry about how much weight everyone is lugging around, or the obscene amount of ammo they may need. Protection is also far more important than IRL because you don't have the option to shoot from the prone from 300m, or have a machine gun firing from a mile away.
Players also tend to forget that just because sentinels have more health doesn't mean they can't take cover like assaults, commandos and logis can. Stop standing in the open and get behind something so that 1000 HP actually gets put to good use.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
13080
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Posted - 2016.07.10 15:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I said this was how the suits would be deployed by real world militaries if they were available.
My playstyle usually involves extremes of violence and many glorious deaths. Doesn't matter what suit I'm in.
But honestly, you're right, sents rarely took cover. Fast recharge times meant a calsent could recover in a few seconds if the enemy let him rest even for a moment. It's why I used them all the time. Sustained, extreme violence. not FAST violence, but a few milk crates to stop bullets and a few seconds means that fatty comes out roaring.
Yes, I am a Goon. No, I don't care about your spacepolitik.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8361
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Posted - 2016.07.10 17:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Assaults have always been popular because they typically had the best speed to defence ratio...usually by a wide margin.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
10377
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Posted - 2016.07.11 21:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7886
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Posted - 2016.07.12 17:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it. They're built around flanking and the like. Almost every player I saw would just mindlessly zerg with them.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
15917
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Posted - 2016.07.12 19:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it. I think its true.
Look how many MinAssaults there were. Largely because they were very fast (at times faster than a Amarr Scout).
When Scouts were OP, a significant part of the problem was how much they could tank. Gal Scouts were running around with 1000HP and surviving knife strikes. Annoying as hell.
RE: The larger group of roles, I think if there can't be a case made for differentiation of Commandos and Assaults, then they should just be combined. I think Commandos were better balanced and could be amended with some extra speed and better EWAR than Sents, and you would get better balanced front line fighters.
IMO Sents should have been largely defensive measures and a nucleus of coordinated attacks. They were bitches to deal with in enclosed spaces and cities, as they should have been.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7886
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Posted - 2016.07.12 20:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it. I think its true. Look how many MinAssaults there were. Largely because they were very fast (at times faster than a Amarr Scout). When Scouts were OP, a significant part of the problem was how much they could tank. Gal Scouts were running around with 1000HP and surviving knife strikes. Annoying as hell. RE: The larger group of roles, I think if there can't be a case made for differentiation of Commandos and Assaults, then they should just be combined. I think Commandos were better balanced and could be amended with some extra speed and better EWAR than Sents, and you would get better balanced front line fighters. IMO Sents should have been largely defensive measures and a nucleus of coordinated attacks. They were bitches to deal with in enclosed spaces and cities, as they should have been. As far as sentinels go, there was never a realistic way to restrict them to defense. But yeah, coordinated attacks should revolve around them.
The front line shifts slowly. Sentinels move slowly. Sentinels are perfect for the front line.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
10378
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Posted - 2016.07.12 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it. They're built around flanking and the like. Almost every player I saw would just mindlessly zerg with them. Well, by the time Assaults became the go-to suit again, they required less thinking than any other frame, other than a Sentinel who had a logi attached to.
Whenever I switched from my scout to assault, I could basically just play however I wanted within close quarters and do much better than my scout, even when I stepped into the scout role's shoes.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Penumbra or something
7886
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Posted - 2016.07.12 23:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Joel II X wrote:Because being an assault seems to require the least amount of thinking. You just shoot straight and tank a few hits.
A light frame has to think on how to stay hidden and getting the job done quick, while a Heavy has to think on where your support is because getting caught out in the open is terrible w/ 0 support, as well as their guns overheating. Assaults have always required more thought than the average assault player is willing to produce. I don't buy it. They're built around flanking and the like. Almost every player I saw would just mindlessly zerg with them. Well, by the time Assaults became the go-to suit again, they required less thinking than any other frame, other than a Sentinel who had a logi attached to. Whenever I switched from my scout to assault, I could basically just play however I wanted within close quarters and do much better than my scout, even when I stepped into the scout role's shoes. How would they require less thinking than a sentinel or commando? All those needed to to think about was staying in the middle of the zerg and hoping they got a rep or nanohive thrown their way.
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