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jade gamester
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
343
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Posted - 2016.02.11 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Heavies.... heavies.... heavies....
Since I started dust, sentinels have been what I'm all about.
I have seen patches, nerf and buffs but the issues have kept popping up...
Until the rise of the assaults.....
Sentinels are still good but spamming assaults has been just more effective, and why?
Well the pros of being an assault:
1. You can carry and deploy uplinks...
2. Smaller hit box
3. Depending how you set your build you-
4. min ass= shotgun or mass driver.. jump mods kin cats etc... increased speed and jump destroys bullet registering.
Cal ass- maximum shields with strafe makes for a terrifying suit.
Amar ass- need I say more
Gal assault- new bonuses give an insane dps.
5. Transition on battlefield is easier.
6. Can be effective on all areas of the battlefield.
Sentinel pros:
1. High hp
2. Resistance to certain weapons
3. Hmg/forge
4. Due to hp can be and is extremely effective with logi.
5. In numbers creates a brick wall that only re's can deal with.
6. Can be turned into a sentinel/assault with the right fit.
Okay so that's the pros now let's look at the cons.
Assault cons:
1. If youre fitted light, you're easier to kill at range- light meaning low hp and fast.
2. High hp makes you sluggish making cqc extremely tough against a hmg.
3. Defending a point, assaults tend to be constantly moving meaning speed hacks are easily achieved.
4. Worst assault trait- "slayers mentality" most want action and if they can't find it they will go looking. This isn't really a con in a way but the assault does bring that mentality out.
Sentinel:
1. Armour stacking makes you a sitting duck (res will remove you) this means you have no benefit armour stacking.
2. The hmg sucks with bullet registering, if they're fast? No chance.
3. Shield stacking heavies? One Flux and you're over...
4. With hp? Means less reps... having a Logi benefits, but this means sacrificing an assault to logi you
2 assaults> 1heavy
5. You rely 100% on your team - uplinks/scans/hacks.
6. Defending- one proto re has the potential to remove every heavy on a point.
So... as you can see they're pros and cons to both.
Now I'm not a good assault but I am an experienced heavy.
So I'd like to give some ideas with how to bring heavies to the next game.
1. Av- one of my favourite roles in dust currently.... however? I'd like to see the ammo on the forge gun slowly restore. Heavies rely too much on support- nanohives from teams and in the heat of a pc? Last thing someone wants is to bring a player out and supply the forger with ammo.
2. Decrease hmg dmg!!! But introduce heavy flinching.
This makes heavies more about supressing the enemy rather then ripping him apart! That should be the assaults role
3. Aslong as number 2 is implemented heavies should have a health buff.. and quite a large on to! With low dps weapons and high hp, this will give the traditional tank feeling! Heavies should be support, not 50kill bombers.
4. Hardeners- this would be the final stand and a go to card. Sacrificing certain amount of hp for a hardener. Being hit by several assaults? Activate the hardener and scare them off with the hmg.
5. Similar to number 2: boundless hmg- suppression, freedom remains av and six kin will remain dps, fitting bonus with six kin only to the min sentinel, my reason is that min sentinel is the assault/heavy, high dps but weak. This should be the same with all other heavies. Six kin burst should make their heavies lighter and weaker, this type of heavy will be restricted from hardeners. (Six kin point needs a little work)
6. All racial weapons. An av in every class, this will bring variety to the battlefield and into make heavies more effective.
Love to hear feed back to add and change so ccp can see :)
Will the real vu please stand up o7
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
509
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Posted - 2016.02.11 10:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't have any feedback other than it's refreshing to hear someone ask for nerfs to their preferred class in the name of balance.
Something is killing new player retention.
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jade gamester
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
344
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Posted - 2016.02.11 10:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Don't have any feedback other than it's refreshing to hear someone ask for nerfs to their preferred class in the name of balance.
Thank you :) the even though it's a nerf I'd like to call it a change in role. I want heavies to be what always should of been. They should be splitting the group, pushing the enemy into ambush situations. Or helping defend. Especially now that assault are dps
Will the real vu please stand up o7
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.11 10:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
To be frank, now is not the time to think about balance.
It might sound odd, but balancing for a lobby shooter is very different than balancing for a sandbox game, and we don't know what the DUST project is right now.
It's a waste of your time and energy. Let Rattati and gang make the first move and then say what is on your mind.
Easy PC building guide
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3
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Posted - 2016.02.11 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
The problem with heavies in DUST is that they were trying to compete with Assaults for the player role. By making some subtle changes I can see need for 3 heavy classes in Phoinex.
Class 1) Sentinel - Currently the sentinel is more of a door kicker class, that puts it in-direct contention with medium class assaults. The sentinel needs to be more of a defensive tank.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
While the Loadout may seem a little excessive at first, the trick is to limit PG/CPU such that you can't fit all three on a decent fit. Then you give sentinels a fitting bonus to a new light weapon type, riot shields.
These riot shields can be wielded side by side with your side arm, or deployed as mobile cover for use with your heavy weapon. Pair this with VERY slow movement to make him unsuitable for assault orientated combat and you are good to go.
Class 2) Grenadier - The next class is all about explosions the more the merrier. The grenadier is designed to deal out long range support and have the durability to survive.
Loadout -
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Heavy Grenade (2 uses)
2 X Medium Grenade (3 uses each)
Now the trick is the sidearm slit is designed for use with a grenade launcher, that allows you grenades to be lobbed further than any unit could throw them.
Class 3 - Anti-Vehicle -- The final class needs to be a dedicated AVer. This will force more AV players into less combat efficient suits I order to better achieve balance.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Equipment
1 X Grenade
The Loadout here is very intensive but the point as an AVer is that you shouldn't need many modules to do your job. The trick is to send people towards a heavy AV weapon and a lock-on light AV weapon. We do this by giving fitting bonuses to AV based items.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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jade gamester
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
346
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:The problem with heavies in DUST is that they were trying to compete with Assaults for the player role. By making some subtle changes I can see need for 3 heavy classes in Phoinex.
Class 1) Sentinel - Currently the sentinel is more of a door kicker class, that puts it in-direct contention with medium class assaults. The sentinel needs to be more of a defensive tank.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
While the Loadout may seem a little excessive at first, the trick is to limit PG/CPU such that you can't fit all three on a decent fit. Then you give sentinels a fitting bonus to a new light weapon type, riot shields.
These riot shields can be wielded side by side with your side arm, or deployed as mobile cover for use with your heavy weapon. Pair this with VERY slow movement to make him unsuitable for assault orientated combat and you are good to go.
Class 2) Grenadier - The next class is all about explosions the more the merrier. The grenadier is designed to deal out long range support and have the durability to survive.
Loadout -
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Heavy Grenade (2 uses)
2 X Medium Grenade (3 uses each)
Now the trick is the sidearm slit is designed for use with a grenade launcher, that allows you grenades to be lobbed further than any unit could throw them.
Class 3 - Anti-Vehicle -- The final class needs to be a dedicated AVer. This will force more AV players into less combat efficient suits I order to better achieve balance.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Equipment
1 X Grenade
The Loadout here is very intensive but the point as an AVer is that you shouldn't need many modules to do your job. The trick is to send people towards a heavy AV weapon and a lock-on light AV weapon. We do this by giving fitting bonuses to AV based items. I love some of these ideas especially the riot shield! However the grenadier? I'd prefer that to be a commando :/ however commandos don't current carry grenades
Will the real vu please stand up o7
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3
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Posted - 2016.02.11 13:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
jade gamester wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:The problem with heavies in DUST is that they were trying to compete with Assaults for the player role. By making some subtle changes I can see need for 3 heavy classes in Phoinex.
Class 1) Sentinel - Currently the sentinel is more of a door kicker class, that puts it in-direct contention with medium class assaults. The sentinel needs to be more of a defensive tank.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
While the Loadout may seem a little excessive at first, the trick is to limit PG/CPU such that you can't fit all three on a decent fit. Then you give sentinels a fitting bonus to a new light weapon type, riot shields.
These riot shields can be wielded side by side with your side arm, or deployed as mobile cover for use with your heavy weapon. Pair this with VERY slow movement to make him unsuitable for assault orientated combat and you are good to go.
Class 2) Grenadier - The next class is all about explosions the more the merrier. The grenadier is designed to deal out long range support and have the durability to survive.
Loadout -
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Heavy Grenade (2 uses)
2 X Medium Grenade (3 uses each)
Now the trick is the sidearm slit is designed for use with a grenade launcher, that allows you grenades to be lobbed further than any unit could throw them.
Class 3 - Anti-Vehicle -- The final class needs to be a dedicated AVer. This will force more AV players into less combat efficient suits I order to better achieve balance.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Equipment
1 X Grenade
The Loadout here is very intensive but the point as an AVer is that you shouldn't need many modules to do your job. The trick is to send people towards a heavy AV weapon and a lock-on light AV weapon. We do this by giving fitting bonuses to AV based items. I love some of these ideas especially the riot shield! However the grenadier? I'd prefer that to be a commando :/ however commandos don't current carry grenades
You see personally I would make the commando the assault a medium suit 2 light weapons, sidearm and maybe a grenade. No equipment.
Then your logic and combat engineers would be more common if you gave them 1light and 5+equipment or 1 light, 1side arm and 2-3 equipment respectively.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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jade gamester
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
346
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:jade gamester wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:The problem with heavies in DUST is that they were trying to compete with Assaults for the player role. By making some subtle changes I can see need for 3 heavy classes in Phoinex.
Class 1) Sentinel - Currently the sentinel is more of a door kicker class, that puts it in-direct contention with medium class assaults. The sentinel needs to be more of a defensive tank.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
While the Loadout may seem a little excessive at first, the trick is to limit PG/CPU such that you can't fit all three on a decent fit. Then you give sentinels a fitting bonus to a new light weapon type, riot shields.
These riot shields can be wielded side by side with your side arm, or deployed as mobile cover for use with your heavy weapon. Pair this with VERY slow movement to make him unsuitable for assault orientated combat and you are good to go.
Class 2) Grenadier - The next class is all about explosions the more the merrier. The grenadier is designed to deal out long range support and have the durability to survive.
Loadout -
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Heavy Grenade (2 uses)
2 X Medium Grenade (3 uses each)
Now the trick is the sidearm slit is designed for use with a grenade launcher, that allows you grenades to be lobbed further than any unit could throw them.
Class 3 - Anti-Vehicle -- The final class needs to be a dedicated AVer. This will force more AV players into less combat efficient suits I order to better achieve balance.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Equipment
1 X Grenade
The Loadout here is very intensive but the point as an AVer is that you shouldn't need many modules to do your job. The trick is to send people towards a heavy AV weapon and a lock-on light AV weapon. We do this by giving fitting bonuses to AV based items. I love some of these ideas especially the riot shield! However the grenadier? I'd prefer that to be a commando :/ however commandos don't current carry grenades You see personally I would make the commando the assault a medium suit 2 light weapons, sidearm and maybe a grenade. No equipment. Then your logic and combat engineers would be more common if you gave them 1light and 5+equipment or 1 light, 1side arm and 2-3 equipment respectively.
Ahhhh I see now! Commandos and assaults change role in a way?
Will the real vu please stand up o7
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
jade gamester wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:jade gamester wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:The problem with heavies in DUST is that they were trying to compete with Assaults for the player role. By making some subtle changes I can see need for 3 heavy classes in Phoinex.
Class 1) Sentinel - Currently the sentinel is more of a door kicker class, that puts it in-direct contention with medium class assaults. The sentinel needs to be more of a defensive tank.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
While the Loadout may seem a little excessive at first, the trick is to limit PG/CPU such that you can't fit all three on a decent fit. Then you give sentinels a fitting bonus to a new light weapon type, riot shields.
These riot shields can be wielded side by side with your side arm, or deployed as mobile cover for use with your heavy weapon. Pair this with VERY slow movement to make him unsuitable for assault orientated combat and you are good to go.
Class 2) Grenadier - The next class is all about explosions the more the merrier. The grenadier is designed to deal out long range support and have the durability to survive.
Loadout -
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Heavy Grenade (2 uses)
2 X Medium Grenade (3 uses each)
Now the trick is the sidearm slit is designed for use with a grenade launcher, that allows you grenades to be lobbed further than any unit could throw them.
Class 3 - Anti-Vehicle -- The final class needs to be a dedicated AVer. This will force more AV players into less combat efficient suits I order to better achieve balance.
Loadout -
1 X Heavy Weapon
1 X Light Weapon
1 X Sidearm
1 X Equipment
1 X Grenade
The Loadout here is very intensive but the point as an AVer is that you shouldn't need many modules to do your job. The trick is to send people towards a heavy AV weapon and a lock-on light AV weapon. We do this by giving fitting bonuses to AV based items. I love some of these ideas especially the riot shield! However the grenadier? I'd prefer that to be a commando :/ however commandos don't current carry grenades You see personally I would make the commando the assault a medium suit 2 light weapons, sidearm and maybe a grenade. No equipment. Then your logic and combat engineers would be more common if you gave them 1light and 5+equipment or 1 light, 1side arm and 2-3 equipment respectively. Ahhhh I see now! Commandos and assaults change role in a way?
Yeah kinda, currently the 2 suits are both trying to do roles the other would be better suited for.
So commandos move down and take the assault class.
While AV and grenadiers move up and gets the heavy suit.
Meanwhile sentinels become defensively orientated as opposed to being in direct competition with assaults.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
625
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Posted - 2016.02.11 17:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Me a sentinel. With Reps on you with a freedom HMG u are damn near indestructible. No changes with me
HMG is my first love
SR my Sancha
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DEV Stupid Head
Imprint Data Solutions
9
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Posted - 2016.02.11 18:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
First you must remember heavies were once literally everywhere and completely dominated for quite a while.
Bandwidth was a major nerf to Heavies especially for Forgegunners
I felt the most noticable decline happened when the HMG was nerfed in range, hp, heat, and (i think ) dispersion
That nerf combined with hit detection issues, myo jumping and the slight turn nerf resulted in a decline of heavy users
The assult HMG got buffed and is pretty lethal and viable |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
1
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Posted - 2016.02.11 18:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sentinels need to have a clearly defined role on the battlefield. Something they can do better than any other suit. They lacked this in Dust514, IMO, and felt largely overshadowed because there was always another fit that could their job almost as well.
Purifier. First Class.
Legends never die
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