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l-o-i-c
Dust University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2016.02.09 16:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would it be possible to use weapon projectiles instead of hitscan as a way of reducing the perception of network latency in UE4 / eve:fps?
Sort of Client: Press button -> Fire Animation -> Spawn Projectile -> Hit! Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
Instead of Client: Press button, hit! -> Render hit Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
(The idea comes from Tekken, stuff here) |
tritan abbattere
Canadian Kings BlackNova Mercenary Alliance
126
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Posted - 2016.02.13 08:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
maybe in project legion but dust will have no further updates.
I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2016.02.13 10:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
l-o-i-c wrote:Would it be possible to use weapon projectiles instead of hitscan as a way of reducing the perception of network latency in UE4 / eve:fps?
Sort of Client: Press button -> Fire Animation -> Spawn Projectile -> Hit! Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
Instead of Client: Press button, hit! -> Render hit Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
(The idea comes from Tekken, stuff here) More precisely I think you're referring to bullet travel time rather than visible projectiles.
One issue with visible projectiles is that the server can't perform lag compensation on projectiles that are spawned on the client side as the projectile would visibly deviate from the intended trajectory. So they have to be spawned server-side, which puts the lag between L1 and the spawning of the projectile (refer to the Forgegun as an example of this). Alternatively you can keep the visible projectiles client side but the impact calculations server side, in which case you get the same difference between visible impact and game mechanics you get with hitscan weapons (refer to the Scrambler Rifle as an example of this).
What you may be referring to is something like the half-life server model. I don't actually know what it's called in technical terms, but the advantage is that regardless of the amount of latency the client and server will always agree on what the client saw when it took an action and what effect it should have. It accomplishes this by having the server keep a store of what it told each client about where everyone was at the time the client took an action and performing the hit detection on that dataset. The downside is a fairly big memory- and cpu-footprint (plus mental effort on the side of the programmers!). Cheating through intentionally bad latency is also a possibility. |
l-o-i-c
Dust University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2016.02.13 13:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:l-o-i-c wrote:Would it be possible to use weapon projectiles instead of hitscan as a way of reducing the perception of network latency in UE4 / eve:fps?
Sort of Client: Press button -> Fire Animation -> Spawn Projectile -> Hit! Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
Instead of Client: Press button, hit! -> Render hit Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
(The idea comes from Tekken, stuff here) More precisely I think you're referring to bullet travel time rather than visible projectiles. One issue with visible projectiles is that the server can't perform lag compensation on projectiles that are spawned on the client side as the projectile would visibly deviate from the intended trajectory. So they have to be spawned server-side, which puts the lag between L1 and the spawning of the projectile (refer to the Forgegun as an example of this). Alternatively you can keep the visible projectiles client side but the impact calculations server side, in which case you get the same difference between visible impact and game mechanics you get with hitscan weapons (refer to the Scrambler Rifle as an example of this). What you may be referring to is something like the half-life server model. I don't actually know what it's called in technical terms, but the advantage is that regardless of the amount of latency the client and server will always agree on what the client saw when it took an action and what effect it should have. It accomplishes this by having the server keep a store of what it told each client about where everyone was at the time the client took an action and performing the hit detection on that dataset. The downside is a fairly big memory- and cpu-footprint (plus mental effort on the side of the programmers!). Cheating through intentionally bad latency is also a possibility. Yes, I was not very clear. It was meant to do with how things are displayed, as a way of managing, reducing, the players perception of network latency.
For example take the Rifle Assault Duvolle, if it fired projectiles that took 50ms to travel and hit someone 50 metres out then players would perceive that much less network latency as they are not expecting the shots to hit before then.
And again from Tekken the second client, the guy who is being shot, could display the projectile animations more rapidly, speeding up the animation and/or skipping animation frames (and interpolating) in order to make the lagged projectiles (that is from the pov of the second client) catch up to their GÇ£realGÇ¥ position before they hit which is again only possible if the projectiles have travel time.
I do like your examples, the second very much as the side effect is easily dealt with by having regional servers, and by placing clients with similar latencies together, and by refusing clients with extreme latencies as they would be negatively affecting the gameplay of all the other players. |
Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.02.14 00:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
tritan abbattere wrote:maybe in project legion but dust will have no further updates.
1. The New Eden FPS for PC as described by CCP Frame is not Project Legion. 2. Project Legion was built using a heavily modified version of Unreal Engine 3 (not 4).
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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.02.14 00:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:l-o-i-c wrote:Would it be possible to use weapon projectiles instead of hitscan as a way of reducing the perception of network latency in UE4 / eve:fps?
Sort of Client: Press button -> Fire Animation -> Spawn Projectile -> Hit! Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
Instead of Client: Press button, hit! -> Render hit Server: ............................Server receives and compensates...Hit!
(The idea comes from Tekken, stuff here) More precisely I think you're referring to bullet travel time rather than visible projectiles. One issue with visible projectiles is that the server can't perform lag compensation on projectiles that are spawned on the client side as the projectile would visibly deviate from the intended trajectory. So they have to be spawned server-side, which puts the lag between L1 and the spawning of the projectile (refer to the Forgegun as an example of this). Alternatively you can keep the visible projectiles client side but the impact calculations server side, in which case you get the same difference between visible impact and game mechanics you get with hitscan weapons (refer to the Scrambler Rifle as an example of this). What you may be referring to is something like the half-life server model. I don't actually know what it's called in technical terms, but the advantage is that regardless of the amount of latency the client and server will always agree on what the client saw when it took an action and what effect it should have. It accomplishes this by having the server keep a store of what it told each client about where everyone was at the time the client took an action and performing the hit detection on that dataset. The downside is a fairly big memory- and cpu-footprint (plus mental effort on the side of the programmers!). Cheating through intentionally bad latency is also a possibility.
That's not gonna work with Tranquility. At least as far as I understand the server.
Tranquility server is practically the Big Brother of Eve Online where it constantly tracks almost everything in Eve from market transactions to chat logs and mails in addition to managing massive fleet battles. But what it also does is interrogates the client. The client for Eve Online has a built-in scanner that checks the client itself and its connection to Tranquility for any signs of attempted data manipulation. If detected, the client reports to Tranquility and the server flags the player in question for further investigation. CCP Games has a dedicated security team that deals with this sort of thing and they have been successful in keeping bot users and bot programmers on the run. And because all transactions are monitored along with using some kind of behavior-tracking method RMT rings have also been taken down viciously.
One more thing. Tranquility does not accept the client data without question. It first compares what the client says with what the server saw. If there is a discrepancy in the comparison, what the Tranquility server saw will take priority over what the client says. This makes it impossible to manipulate data without getting caught.
Of course the only reason why this system worked for Eve Online is because Eve is slow paced allowing the server time to process everything. Time Dilation also helps when massive fleet battles erupt and thousands of commands have to be processed in a single second.
I'm not sure how this will work with a first-person shooter though since shooters are fast paced. It might still work if ground battles are kept to a small size. But if the new game for PC allows Eve-sized ground battles, we might have a few problems. CCP might have to implement their own smaller battle servers to handle that part of the data handling hit detection and player movements.
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
531
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Posted - 2016.02.14 03:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP will absolutely have to keep using localized battleservers for Phoenix regardless of the size of the battles. The fastest servers in the world still can't do anything about the latency caused by a players ping.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
3
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Posted - 2016.02.14 18:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
tritan abbattere wrote:maybe in project legion but dust will have no further updates.
Legion is dead.
Top lel
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Skihids
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.02.25 01:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP should copy Star Citizen's plan to use multiple battle servers to run one massive battle. The trick is to split a battle into two when it gets too large for one server. Each server displays a background that represents what is going on in the other server, but it doesn't have to run everything. Players can cross servers if they travel far enough, so it all appears to be a single instance.
I'm sure that maps can be designed such that there isn't the possibility of direct interaction between instances except for limited segments to keep the crisis traffic load down. In such a case each installation on a map could be run on its own server with another linking them together. |
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