DUST Search - I have a feeling skill points will translate to PC version

BARAGAMOS wrote:

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE, a player pays AUR for a skill extractor. This player can sell the extractor for ISK or activate the skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time.

Migrating super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP are prime candidates to take advantage of skill extractors. Vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR that is used to get an extractor from CCP.

Encouraging the sale of SP by letting migrating vets keep their massive sp pool makes sense from a business standpoint. From a game balance standpoint, CCP will have to put structures in play to keep veterans from rolling over new players.

Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. Passively earned sp on alt accounts may further incentivize the trading or selling of migrating Dust accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales.

Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character

UGH>>>>
Not going to happen. Two different games with two different pools of XP. That and only a ****** thinks new players want to join a game 4 years behind on release day. Stop neck beard dreaming, and enjoy what we have left. We will be lucky if they actually develop anything, but if they do you will not be getting Dust 2 to move your old character over to. That was clear in the announcement. Expect at best vanity items. At worst no game at all.

Like the 10th inane "I did not read or understand" the announcement post.

YOU WILL NOT BE TAKING YOUR SP IN ANY FORM. They already stated that you will not be moving your toon.

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Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:20:00 - [1] - Quote With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE player pay AUR for skill extractors. Players active a skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. If super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP make the jump to PC, vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a Vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR and get it from CCP. This makes sense from a business standpoint. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. This may further incentivize the trading or selling of passive alt accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:27:00 - [2] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE player pay AUR for skill extractors. Players active a skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. If super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP make the jump to PC, vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a Vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR and get it from CCP. This makes sense from a business standpoint. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. This may further incentivize the trading or selling of passive alt accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character Why in the fuuk do you and Pokey not work for CCP? Theyve obviously gotten a new rnd budget for PHOENIX. GET ON THEIR LEVEL CCP. Like usual, the forums went full r-tard with the news.
Hynox Xitio Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:30:00 - [3] - Quote Wish I could play it, but I'm probably gonna give this character over to a friend whose interested in it at the request that she hand it back if theres ever a PS4 port. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:33:00 - [4] - Quote Thing is Jadek is quite talented with artwork as well, though he doesn't flaunt it as much as he should. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:34:00 - [5] - Quote Thanks Pokey. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
The Attorney General 3	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:40:00 - [6] - Quote Every vet with 200 million SP is just as likely to whale their way right back up there in a new system. No SP transfer. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 04:50:00 - [7] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Every vet with 200 million SP is just as likely to whale their way right back up there in a new system. No SP transfer. I wouldn't necessarily bank on it. Allowing SP transfer while wiping ISK fosters good will toward 'whales' who already sunk lots of time and energy into getting where they are. Resetting everyone back to zero SP isn't going to automatically necessitate balance. Those SP differences will begin after the first player match on the PC. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN Eternal Beings I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 394	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:22:00 - [8] - Quote I am pretty sure they will just wipe everything, however I'm hoping they give out SP multipliers for each loyalty rank. That might be fair. Lvl 1: 1x Multiplier Lvl 2: 1.1x Multiplier Etc. "When my nine in d-ck goes from your jaw to the back of your throat, please, do not f-cking complain!" -Makaveli
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:23:00 - [9] - Quote Staying -The only attributes I see making it to PC are player name, corporation name, skill points. Wipe -AUR wipe likely. CCP may be adapting AUR and those resources could be incompatible. There may be various TOS between CCP and Sony that complicate being able to bring any AUR a customer bought in the Sony ecosystem into a new contained CCP platform. -ISK wipe is a given. -Item wipe (ISK/AUR bought) is foreseeable. Would likely be too time consuming to match assets to a player when asset equivalents might not even exist in the reimagined PC game. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 702	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:26:00 - [10] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Staying -The only attributes I see making it to PC are player name, corporation name, skill points. Wipe -AUR wipe likely. CCP may be adapting AUR and those resources could be incompatible. There may be various TOS between CCP and Sony that complicate being able to bring any AUR a customer bought in the Sony ecosystem into a new contained CCP platform. -ISK wipe is a given. -Item wipe (ISK/AUR bought) is foreseeable. Would likely be too time consuming to match assets to a player when asset equivalents might not even exist in the reimagined PC game. It is possible that we might see some form of asset transfer, if only as SKINS or something of the like, but it would be unreasonable to expect a 1:1 transfer of absolutely everything xD (although, that might be possible depending on how things go) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC

Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:30:00 - [11] - Quote Transfer of SKINs is a good possibility. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 497	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:36:00 - [12] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE, a player pays AUR for a skill extractor. This player can sell the extractor for ISK or activate the skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. Migrating super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP are prime candidates to take advantage of skill extractors. Vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR that is used to get an extractor from CCP. Encouraging the sale of SP by letting migrating vets keep their massive sp pool makes sense from a business standpoint. From a game balance standpoint, CCP will have to put structures in play to keep veterans from rolling over new players. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. Passively earned sp on alt accounts may further incentivize the trading or selling of migrating Dust accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character UGH>>>> Not going to happen. Two different games with two different pools of XP. That and only a ****** thinks new players want to join a game 4 years behind on release day. Stop neck beard dreaming, and enjoy what we have left. We will be lucky if they actually develop anything, but if they do you will not be getting Dust 2 to move your old character over to. That was clear in the announcement. Expect at best vanity items. At worst no game at all. Like the 10th inane "I did not read or understand" the announcement post. YOU WILL NOT BE TAKING YOUR SP IN ANY FORM. They already stated that you will not be moving your toon.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 523	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:37:00 - [13] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE, a player pays AUR for a skill extractor. This player can sell the extractor for ISK or activate the skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. Migrating super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP are prime candidates to take advantage of skill extractors. Vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR that is used to get an extractor from CCP. Encouraging the sale of SP by letting migrating vets keep their massive sp pool makes sense from a business standpoint. From a game balance standpoint, CCP will have to put structures in play to keep veterans from rolling over new players. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. Passively earned sp on alt accounts may further incentivize the trading or selling of migrating Dust accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character UGH>>>> Not going to happen. Two different games with two different pools of XP. That and only a ****** thinks new players want to join a game 4 years behind on release day. Stop neck beard dreaming, and enjoy what we have left. We will be lucky if they actually develop anything, but if they do you will not be getting Dust 2 to move your old character over to. That was clear in the announcement. Expect at best vanity items. At worst no game at all. Like the 10th inane "I did not read or understand" the announcement post. YOU WILL NOT BE TAKING YOUR SP IN ANY FORM. They already stated that you will not be moving your toon. You are so angry. Here, eat a snickers. Farewell DUST
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:55:00 - [14] - Quote @BARAGAMOS Even if they change the proportion of skill points allotted to veteran players based on a new skill tree, there is still a monetary incentive to keep SP pools as a means to get vets to buy skill extractors. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
General Vahzz PIanet Express 484	Posted - 2016.02.04 05:56:00 - [15] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE player pay AUR for skill extractors. Players active a skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. If super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP make the jump to PC, vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a Vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR and get it from CCP. This makes sense from a business standpoint. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. This may further incentivize the trading or selling of passive alt accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character Why in the fuuk do you and Pokey not work for CCP? Theyve obviously gotten a new rnd budget for PHOENIX. GET ON THEIR LEVEL CCP. DO NOT SILENCE JADEK AND POKEY YOU FIEND You can bite my shiny metal ass.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:00:00 - [16] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Staying -The only attributes I see making it to PC are player name, corporation name, skill points. Wipe -AUR wipe likely. CCP may be adapting AUR and those resources could be incompatible. There may be various TOS between CCP and Sony that complicate being able to bring any AUR a customer bought in the Sony ecosystem into a new contained CCP platform. -ISK wipe is a given. -Item wipe (ISK/AUR bought) is foreseeable. Would likely be too time consuming to match assets to a player when asset equivalents might not even exist in the reimagined PC game. I wanna keep my cosmetic **** though. Re-Re-Re-Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_; You never just leave Dust. You story will last forever.
nolove 187killa nolove187 WARPSPEEDTHUGS 1	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:01:00 - [17] - Quote Speaking with PCgamesN at the event, CCP Shanghai managing director Jean-Charles Gaudechon said the team is trying to GÇ£deliver the best experienceGÇ¥ with the shooter, but right now, DIST 514 is the priority. GÇ£I would always like to share as much as possible with our fans and players, but of course it then creates expectations,GÇ¥ he said. GÇ£All I know is that weGÇÖre working really hard on trying to deliver the best experience. GÇ£Of course PC is a target because thatGÇÖs our primary platform for Eve Online, [but weGÇÖre] seeing how Dust is evolving. Making that as good as possible, and then seeing how that translates GÇô if that ever translates.GÇ¥ During the opening keynote at Fanfest, CCP boss Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson said there was GÇ£nothing new to reportGÇ¥ on Project Legion as the team is GÇ£still exploring in that area.GÇ¥ CCP said DUST 514 is profitable and attracts new players daily, so both new and current community memebers deserve everything they were promised by the developers. GÇ£WeGÇÖre obviously thinking of the future, but I feel we owe Dust players on PS3 everything they deserve,GÇ¥ said Gaudechon. GÇ£Which means hotfixes and all the things we can do to keep them happy. We have players right now playing and paying for an experience.GÇ¥ Project Legion-áwas announced at EVE Fanfest 2014-áas a GÇ£new approach to being a mercenary on the groundGÇ¥, and taking everything learned from DUST 514 and GÇ£almost making a new game from scratch.GÇ¥ GÇ£ItGÇÖs in the same IP, same place and all the rest of it, but we want to do some fundamentally different things with it that we feel we missed out on and that we didnGÇÖt do right [with Dust],GÇ¥ said the firmGÇÖs Sean Decker at the time. GÇ£Honestly, we didnGÇÖt make a great game to begin with. We tried to do too much.GÇ¥ Project Legion will allow those who play DUST 514 to keep all PS3 progress such as identity, player name, objects, etc when migrating over to PC.
Maxor haxor Horizons' Edge 74	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:02:00 - [18] - Quote Skill extracters sounds more like the aurbarge. Are boosters not enough? You're already paying to boost your point gain,but nowadays you can just buy skill points? Sounds like a bad pay to win bs concept. Kinda like call of duty advanced warfare. You bought your "advanced" supply drops that had great chances to drop legendary gear or overpowered variants of already overpowered guns. You'd be lucky to get a supply drop once or twice every so and so match but I've heard of people dropping alot of cash to get some of the more op variants. It is I! Maybe deadcatz!
KGB Sleep 1	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:07:00 - [19] - Quote IF there was to be some kind of SP / Asset transfer, I would hope that there would be an offer to transfer SP and ISK to EVE Online. Would be cool to have a choice. Would love a ship / player skin that was black red and white with "514" somewhere on the hull / helmet. Because beer, that's why.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:12:00 - [20] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE, a player pays AUR for a skill extractor. This player can sell the extractor for ISK or activate the skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. Migrating super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP are prime candidates to take advantage of skill extractors. Vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR that is used to get an extractor from CCP. Encouraging the sale of SP by letting migrating vets keep their massive sp pool makes sense from a business standpoint. From a game balance standpoint, CCP will have to put structures in play to keep veterans from rolling over new players. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. Passively earned sp on alt accounts may further incentivize the trading or selling of migrating Dust accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character let it go...don't give guys hope. Game is over "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here

Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:12:00 - [21] - Quote General Vahzz wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: With the adoption of skill packet extraction/injection in EVE I see CCP potentially making money off veterans coming into Dust PC with high SP pools. As it's currently proposed in EVE player pay AUR for skill extractors. Players active a skill extractor and yank out 500k SP at a time. If super vets with sp pools ranging from 150 million to 250 million SP make the jump to PC, vets have a resource they can sell to entering players for ISK. I'm pretty positive ISK is going to be wiped in the transfer. However, for a Vet to obtain a skill extractor they'll either have to pay another player ISK or pay $ to obtain AUR and get it from CCP. This makes sense from a business standpoint. Note: CCP may remove passively earned SP in the transfer from console to PC. This may further incentivize the trading or selling of passive alt accounts outside the TOS. On the other hand these passive pools may be used to farm SP via skill extractors, boosting AUR sales. Passively earned SP is easy to determine: Calculate rate of daily passive SP x age of active character Why in the fuuk do you and Pokey not work for CCP? Theyve obviously gotten a new rnd budget for PHOENIX. GET ON THEIR LEVEL CCP. DO NOT SILENCE JADEK AND POKEY YOU FIEND Im not! ... Ooooooh i see what you mean. Like usual, the forums went full r-tard with the news.
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:31:00 - [22] - Quote Maxor haxor wrote: Skill extracters sounds more like the aurbarge. Are boosters not enough? You're already paying to boost your point gain,but nowadays you can just buy skill points? Sounds like a bad pay to win bs concept. Kinda like call of duty advanced warfare. You bought your "advanced" supply drops that had great chances to drop legendary gear or overpowered variants of already overpowered guns. You'd be lucky to get a supply drop once or twice every so and so match but I've heard of people dropping alot of cash to get some of the more op variants. Skill extractors are already going through in EVE (maybe thanks to a proposal I put back to the devs back in April ). When operating on the premise that skill points have to be made by a player before they can be 'mined' out of a player's head--the practice can allow some important things. -Vets who have maxed skill trees (or have reached a point they don't want to wait ages for level V's) can create value for the community. e.g. Use SP to bring friends into EVE faster. Set up lotteries or events where SP is the prize. Threaten someone's space castle if they don't transfer your x amount of SP to a disclosed location. -EVE players can buy high level accounts through the forum/account management character bazaar. However, the act of buying a character to be relevant in game play with your buddies runs counter to a lot of player creation mechanics. When you start EVE, you begin by choosing your race, bloodline, and spend time brooding over your character's appearance and name--only to be confronted by the snail's pace at gaining skill points. Buying a character (e.g xXxSwaggingUrMom) bypasses this waiting game, but the player loses a sense of agency in making an identity that they connect with. Skill packets allow you to retain player identity while committing to activities that earn you ISK that can be turned around into buying player skill packets. -EVE's character trading Bazaar that exists 'outside' the game. Skill packets do not eliminate the need for a bazaar, but integrate the mecahnics of character transfer into the game ecosystem, in a clear, concise way. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:36:00 - [23] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: IF there was to be some kind of SP / Asset transfer, I would hope that there would be an offer to transfer SP and ISK to EVE Online. Would be cool to have a choice. Would love a ship / player skin that was black red and white with "514" somewhere on the hull / helmet. That would never fly with many people. EVE and Dust SP are fundamentally different based on how they are earned. While CCP is testing ways for eve players to earn active SP (e.g. Bloody Omir event where temporary +17 attribute implants were introduced), letting Dust mercs inject SP in the system would likely upset a lot of people based on the timetables of how SP are gained in either game. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
KGB Sleep 1	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:46:00 - [24] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: KGB Sleep wrote: IF there was to be some kind of SP / Asset transfer, I would hope that there would be an offer to transfer SP and ISK to EVE Online. Would be cool to have a choice. Would love a ship / player skin that was black red and white with "514" somewhere on the hull / helmet. That would never fly with many people. EVE and Dust SP are fundamentally different based on how they are earned. While CCP is testing ways for eve players to earn active SP (e.g. Bloody Omir event where temporary +17 attribute implants were introduced), letting Dust mercs inject SP in the system would likely upset a lot of people based on the timetables of how SP are gained in either game. Thanks, I wasn't sure how / if it could even work. Because beer, that's why.
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.02.04 06:49:00 - [25] - Quote I really like the idea of Dust themed ship SKIN reward for EVE. With it going to PC after all, why not encourage Dust mercs who are not already playing EVE to give it a shot as well. Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Imperium Eden 4	Posted - 2016.02.04 12:07:00 - [26] - Quote I don't exactly buy your rationale: 1. People HATE the SP injection thing and it isn't that useful. The rate of return is dismal for anyone beyond the new player and the new player needs to actually have the ISK in order to buy the things, though PLEX obviously can make a day one multi-billionaire possible. I see SP injection as selling Werewolf Insurance and Health Insurance: "You know, Health Insurance covers most everything that would happen in a Werewolf attack other than the sudden need to buy shaving cream and razors but Werewolf Insurance doesn't cover all that much. I think CCP is causing more problems offering Werewolf Insurance rather than just offering Health Insurance." (Counter: If DUST 2.0 is Free to Play, SP injection is less of an issue considering how F2P monetization works.) 2. If DUST 2.0 is F2P (I would assume so), CCP already has ways to monetize SP gain; Boosters. Having a way to sell SP becomes less important when people can just buy Boosters. 3. If the concept is about making money, IE "let's have the vets buy extractors and sell them to new players", CCP could just make more money by wiping and having everyone get Boosters to begin with. 4. If enough people don't sell SP, you are looking at hurting the game in the early start because of our 50+ million SP just trampling the game. This is especially true if EVE and DUST 2.0 share the same currency because you can just buy PLEX and suddenly have over a billion ISK. (Counter: The ISK system might be totally different) 5. Keeping SP and wiping Aurum is likely to cause more hatred than vice versa given the nature of "I dun paid for that!" Pissing off people who played the game is one thing. Pissing off people who played and paid is another. But who the hell knows? "Tiered Recognition" will probably just be loyalty rank as it is an easy way to determine how much someone played and paid. I dunno if Loyalty Rank took into account Dren Packs though, so I assume that a lot of us are getting screwed. Of course, we are all getting screwed; it is just a question if it is the micro-fastener or the damn industrial auger. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"


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