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Removal of Clone sales from PC.

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Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:04:00 - [1] - Quote Has this been brought up at all ??? Some reasoning why I support removing ISK earning from clones. - There are not enough active fights, and Corps have no incentive to start them (partly due to the shocking state CCP are allowing the server fall in to) - Most of the PC corps still active were happy farmers when it was a chore... (now it is a simple button push and an ISK farm) - Before Christmas, I emptied Corp wallet, and as we had no interest in attacking over the holidays, farmed = 1 Billion ISK was made in less than a month... for doing NOTHING. - At Dead Man's Game, our main CP spending was moving clones for Attacks, I do not enjoy playing farmville However.. there is a lack of attack targets due to bad timers, forcing me to have no choice but to sell clones/waste CP Spineless players, such as SouthSidePhx like sending hatemails about infinte ISK and farming, but they have no clue what goes on.. unlike some other well known PC Corps, DMG do not focus on farming, we also do not pay players with the exception of PC battles that cost a lot of losses, we also try to focus our attacks above our level, fighting tougher fights and usually burning what ISK we have. PC players should gain a reward, but in the current Molden Heath, none of them deserve ISK. PC 2.0 was a great addition only years too late... My advice would be to remove ISK from clones, increase DK earning and FILL the District Market. I won't call out the farming Corps cough Tso's cough but anyone in PC knows who they are. Seeing as most players take no part in PC, opinions will vary But at least you can know DMG do not approve of the ISK farming mechanic handed by CCP, and personally I would much rather see active rewards rather than Corps being rewarded for avoiding conflict and hoarding districts. 07
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:12:00 - [2] - Quote Increased rewards for fighting, specifically tougher battles ... The old PC mechanics rewarded getting a slaying team and fighting noobs for profit PC 2.0 pays best when 2 good teams tear each other to pieces But there is no incentive to do so, when you can avoid fights, and profit more from clone sales. CCP, you may not care to interact, and the fact you release Officer trading along with PC farming shows a serious lack of consideration for the effect it will have on the casual playerbase, as most profits are then used to ruin gameplay in pubs. More reward for Corps growing a pair and fighting, less for those hiding in Alliances and hoarding districts.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:31:00 - [3] - Quote List of active PC Corps and if they support the removal of ISK generation. Dead Man's Game +1 Skill of God Prima Gallicus Abyss of Universe Project of Killers WarRavens Star of Death Cap Ac Eternal Beings b.l.u.e s.t.a.r Rebellion TLC Zen KIll society Th3.Immortals Pug-Nus Grupo Ass Chacal Heaven 84 Devils Carbon 7 Random Gunz Fatal Absolution Daemons of Razgriz nEXT sATISFACTION Galaxy T-Soldiers Butterfly Effect Drift.Crew Made In Poland Post Morteam Second-Nature Latino KIllers Corp Ever.Seruring of Heaver Power to accelerate ICE-9 Project S.A.L.U.K.I. DIOSES DEL EDEN. Zest Of Liberty Iberica Racing Team NEW H0PE Jade-Knight I'm going to stop listing there.. as it will be tough getting international replies anyway, if anyone reading this can direct leadership in PC Corps to this post to share their feedback, that would be appreciated, thank you... If you are not in the list, it's your own fault because I have not seen you in a PC battle anytime in the last 6months+
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 199	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:42:00 - [4] - Quote The glaring issues is top holding Corps gain too much.. when they have it already. Small Corps need it more, but the top groups as usual take full advantage and further crush the active PC Corps.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 216	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:43:00 - [5] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.*
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 216	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:54:00 - [6] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: With these proposed changes, why bother with PC? It would become an isk sink that no one would take part in. There is no incentive to hold a district if you cant do something with it. What about the gap between passive ISK gen being removed.. and PC 2.0 ?? Plenty still played PC battles, for I hope the reason I do, 16v16 where both teams coordinate for the win. I threw some suggestions out there, but I cannot say I am certain of what should be done. *What I am 100% certain of, is that teams should not profit from not fighting.* Then you don't understand how war-profiteering works. I understand that in an FPS we should not be making truces and pacts to not fight so we can plant crops.. Is it that difficult for others to realize this as well ??
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:48:00 - [7] - Quote No I am awaiting replies then I will fill in the comments from each Corp. I will edit to make that clear.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:58:00 - [8] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell should you profit without fighting ???
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 218	Posted - 2016.01.08 00:04:00 - [9] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell would you profit without fighting ??? I never said I wanted this to be the way to make isk without fighting, it's just the only option available so people are going to abuse it. FPS or not you give people a way to make easy money and they'll take it. Exactly. So remove the clone sales. Increase battle payouts. Add an average MU rank to teams... HIgher rank = higher payout for fighting them. We should make ISK, I agree.. but not by sitting about not fighting
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 223	Posted - 2016.01.08 12:26:00 - [10] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Sbundo'D wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: PC isn't the problem and this being the EVE universe, there should be a way to make ISK without fighting. Replying to this without getting banned is a serious task for me This is an FPS. Not EVE where manufacture, Industry and a list of other options are available... This is an FPS. Why the hell should you profit without fighting ??? Because its supposed to be an FPS where you can do those things. Mind blowing, I know. Welcome to New Eden. Do you mean calling people twats?? OR The ability to farm ISK without fighting for it ?? I fully support one of these And are we supposed to allow the game to have major flaws because it was supposed to have more features, right now it lacks anything but the ability to shoot mercs in the face... Yet in PC the highest reward comes from avoiding doing that

Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 223	Posted - 2016.01.08 12:35:00 - [11] - Quote Fiono wrote: I know i shouldn't respond, but. You're defending pc farming, you belive dust514'ers should generate isk without fighting and pc vets no longer will have reason to fight pc without unlimited isk generation That's one persons opinion... Look at the history.. before the removal of clone sales, FA controlled the majority of Molden Heath and more with alt Corps, not very long after, FA vanished from the map.. returning when the ability to farm ISK was returned.. and yet again they climbed to a majority of Molden Heath... Being space rich is serious bizniz Many more Corps stayed active for good fights on the game they enjoy playing. I am awaiting his reply to the post, but so far Hubert De laBatte has the most reasonable reply "we should not make changes based on the extreme" And he is right, the ISK mechanic is not necessarily a bad thing, as a lot of effort goes in to PC, so there is reward for the Corps that do so, but the extreme is the problem, the Corps who insist on powerful Alliances for a cushion and step over others with nothing other than a profit margin in mind, sure it's logical for "war-profiteering" But it is bad for gameplay, it is worse for the community who try to step in to such activity and have to deal with it.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 225	Posted - 2016.01.08 15:13:00 - [12] - Quote @ Fiona AKA SouthSidePhx. Don't worry I used to cry and blame others before I had a clue what I was talking about too
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 225	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:00:00 - [13] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Last time I fought in a PC only 1 person on the other team turned up. I made just over 3000isk. Complete waste of time. We fought two yesterday 16v16 contested down to the final tic of each MCC, sadly both losses.. but not for what I wanted.. Which is good fights, we got them, the result was meaningless when the quality of the battle was excellent
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 225	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:21:00 - [14] - Quote Kaisar, I am not going to poke holes in your post it would take all evening. I do have some resentment for FA, mainly because barely a month into PC, one of your officers decided to attack DMG pretty regular, were the fights competitive.. No, they were stomps.. we adjusted to it and managed some results eventually, but the levels were way to far apart, So I cannot believe you guys genuinely seek good fights... (Also at this time, you gave districts to ITALIAN HUNTERS and Lux Aterna, to flip them a week later) That and each time you are active you seem to be supported by the best in game, not contesting them. Sure things may look different from opposite sides, but that is my view from here. It may seem as expecting mercs to play my way, but then look at the fact that I have had to adapt to playing your way, so it is not so different bar the fact that it is viewed differently by each side. So I will have to agree to disagree. I fight for and even FC with some of the new teams, trying to build their activity and watching supposed vets feel because they got in with the A-team act as though they are deserving of the rewards from doing so, destroy them rather than promote competition sucks, I got used to it, I have been stomped by and defeated every team in Molden Heath... but so long as the veteran players feel entitled to extreme advantages over smaller Corps activity will continue to bleed out. There may not be many capable of 1337 slaying the best in game, but there are many teams left willing to fight. Having major advantages handed to the 1337 to crush the others is what I want to see changed, it doesn't need to be anything I suggest. But something needs to be done. Devaluing clones based on the total your Corp produces is one option, while increasing the value of clones for those that have less would be another option, you say the small Corps need the ISK, you are right, what I am saying as long as the top Corps are earning 10x that amount, the rewards for a small Corp are negligible.. and while the tops Corps keep surging ahead, the gap will never close between them, and the amount of good fights will further decline. Different sides will view it differently, ISK in my view is there to be burnt by fighting.. I would have no issue with the current earnings if there was not always one group taking too much of an advantage (0H/RG/CAP, then AE/FA, now SOG/POK) and then Corps sit on the sideline such as EB/WR who fork out ISK to keep their position and their earnings, I would sooner lose all of my districts than make contracts for others to defend them. Look at DMG+Prima.. we are allies, that Alliance was built on fighting each other.. which in turn makes me part of the problem.. but we do not support each other in lesser battles and both go as far as to fight against each other when supporting the smaller teams, rather than allying for stomps. Views will be different, I just feel the rewards for taking a crap on small Corps and hiding behind better teams should be lessened.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 230	Posted - 2016.01.08 18:43:00 - [15] - Quote Hubert De LaBatte wrote: They are never quiet and secure, because a big part of the other corporations is still better. And they constantly try to improve the team. After 2 years they will maybe have 20 districts and posting there "nobody attack us now, it's possible to farm isk in PC, remove the passive isk gen". No one else is posting that (have they ever?) just a D1CK. Most feel that, getting to that level of holding enough districts is justification for the rewards, I disagree. Once your team is done fighting for what they have, and have no need for defence, there should not be high rewards. Look at Prima Gallicus, 14 districts.. and a reputation that puts fear into attackers, so you rarely get attacked. For me it makes little sense that DMG on equal holdings and fighting more would earn less than Prima who sometimes pass a week without a single attack on their holdings.. In fact Prima if selling equal amounts clones benefit more because you are spending less in active fights and have less costs to maintain an equal amount of districts. (Don't read this wrong I am openly asking for less reward for Corps in similar position to DMG) How can we expect a small Corp to build up to attack that ?? Unless they are foolish enough not to realize the hundreds of millions they will be up against ? There are almost 50 legitimate Corps still in Molden Heath, varying skill levels.. but as long as the top 10 of these control a majority of the profits that come along with it.. there is no reason for teams to even consider trying to compete. (Without making use of the 1337 ringers that usually impact the results of competetive PC battles) *More than ISK removal, or penalties.. what I want above all else, is a reason for teams to compete.*
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 230	Posted - 2016.01.08 18:58:00 - [16] - Quote I am not intentionally trying to argue against those disagreeing. Just this is post no.158 where I am trying to see a change made for the better of the community. (to no avail) Not just those that are willing no neckbeard and uber tryhard for battles, but for the filthy casuals who are where I was over a year ago, they do not understand the mechanics or the meta.. and it seems to be an impossible climb for them to even consider taking part, without the right incentive they never will.. as long as the top Corps hold a major advantage constantly gaining, they never will. I am fully aware I am not the one to suggest the right change, though I feel I am in a position to suggest a change is needed.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 230	Posted - 2016.01.08 19:02:00 - [17] - Quote I'm on no pedestal either, to compete with the scrubs, I have become every bit the scrub they are I am in no way better than the other Corps, and will admit to being guilty of many of the issues I complain of. But it does genuinely feel like I am one of the few willing to have anything done about it. But as usual... Opinions are like a-holes.. we all have one and don't always like looking at each others.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 230	Posted - 2016.01.08 19:38:00 - [18] - Quote Abraxis Mangelor wrote: --- another simple, clean idea --- ownership requires maintenance costs - consistent and critical part of the sandbox throughout New Eden A fee per corp member multiplied by the number of districts held, charged in isk, assessed daily _____________ this makes the fees scale with the size of the organization, and causes over-inflated corps full of sleeping alts to clean up their rosters. corps that are breaking in to pc should be able to cover the costs of their first few districts from relatively low taxes, while large corps make a much smaller profit from clones, but enough to pay for overhead plus about 15% (healthy profit margin, honestly) These are the suggestions I want to see. We all know how the game is, and the mentalities of Corps active.. that does not need to be the focus. Balancing rewards so mercs don't have to tuck their neckbeard into their pants is what's important.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 230	Posted - 2016.01.08 21:51:00 - [19] - Quote Dust User wrote: If you put as much effort into the game as you do putting your tears into words you could eliminate the donut and run Molden Heath however you see fit. That's because it takes you roughly the same amount of time, to mail better players as it does for me to forum post
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 241	Posted - 2016.01.10 00:31:00 - [20] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: :: scratches head :: Looks alot like: 1) More stuff for more of the same. 2) More stuff for more of the same. 3) More stuff for more of the same. 4) More stuff for more of the same. 5) More stuff for more of the same. Do you think that'd serve sustainable conflict, discourage talent pooling, promote real competition and ultimately build interest and participation rates in PC? Or do you think that giving existing participants more stuff for doing more of the same will ultimately amount to giving existing participants more stuff for doing more of the same? I really have to disagree with you here, rewarding competition is part of encouraging it. In order of ease and importance (as in possible now CCP ) - PC missions, weekly is decent.. guaranteed active booster reward. (encouraging playing!) - Salvage on BOTH teams, lore or not.. change it and the lore when a team is up against a wall, this adds incentive to fight back - Valued land, possibly adding a MU restriction a a devalued section - DK market improvements - Districts inactive for one week reset ownership to unoccupied. Ben's response is one of the best so far, rather than mass-debating, adding to the discussion at hand. (realistic changes) As severe as ISK removal may be, something needs to be done months ago If my tears have to be the fuel to get that started, Victear can drink them salty and straight from a pump

Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 241	Posted - 2016.01.10 00:39:00 - [21] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Agree with the fact that passive isk generation is a bit off for those corporations owning more than 3-4 districts and getting attacked rarely The main problem that needs tackling. In this case the perfect incentive is in the original PC design in Dust: every disrict has its own generation of "goods", which goods are needed to craft dropsuits, weaponry etc. Of course, this needs a radical change, a crafting system and god only know what else ( we have already seen all the issues and bugs and whatever else happen in a PC match).Sweet dreams So... I'd really prefer not to beat a dead horse, but Dust needs to be rebuilt +1 That said, I'm pretty sure the only way to keep people vaguely interested in PC as it is now is "free money" if you own a district. Not necessarily, but I would say this is the easiest way CCP see to do it, and are avoiding the work needed Good to still have your opinion on the foums, and you have dealt with the same gameplay. MCC OP 07
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 242	Posted - 2016.01.10 14:04:00 - [22] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: 0.H Supports the removal of PC from PC. The joke has gone on for long enough, put the final nail in the coffin. I'm glad some things never change those DMG cried about old PC system where there was no point in owning districts, now is crying about people owning districts. The only factor that changes within DMG is the subject over which they cry. I know this character doesn't have DMG tags but trust me....There are many of us that would just be happy with a playable game, I have many things to "cry" about without even getting into PC problems. Heh, troll bashing is just part of having an internet community Victears We all have something to cry about, some are just more subtle while I fire right in your face
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 251	Posted - 2016.01.11 19:03:00 - [23] - Quote Don't bump, hump*

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