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![[Veteran_woess]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_woess]")
[Veteran_woess]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:00:00 -
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hallo everyone
what do you think about spotting ?
i personaly do not like it how it workes in the game, because it workes like a wallhack
you can see spotted people throu walls and you can easely suprise them and kill them really fast and you don't need any skill or use of your brain to get that kill
please disable spotting or change it so you can't see spotted people behind objectives also disable minimap spotting because it is the same as normal spotting: you already know where your enemy is = wallhack
please change spotting ccp
make the spotted people only visible (red name from the enemy) if you can see them, also on the minimap
show only people you can see on the minimap and not spotted people....
this makes the game not really skillbased as you everytime talk about in your videos
what do you think about it people ? |
[Veteran_Dusty Naht'kabaret]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:04:00 -
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Tanks possibly have too much scan ability to see infantry hiding from them.
Team spotting is totally cool though, encourages team work, plus, it's 20 thousand years in the future, so they have the technology |
[Veteran_Tyrus Getius]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:10:00 -
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Spotting needs to remain in game, so long as you can only ID the target when you have a clear line of sight, it's pretty basic that if a team member sees a hostile they're gonna call it in and mark the position, regardless of they're position AFTER being spotted they should remain as marked, but they're should be a limited time on how long they stay " marked " for. |
[Veteran_King of Fools]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:12:00 -
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I think you need to learn how tactics work.
If person A is looking at enemy 1, and person B is hiding around the corner from enemy 1, person A is going to tell person B exactly where around the corner enemy 1 is. It's not magic, and on top of that, if no one can see enemy 1 with direct line-of-sight, then no one can see him at all. On top of that, passive (mini-map) scanning is essentially a motion sensor. Not like it means anything if a scout suit comes up behind you, but that's exactly as it should be. Spotting works perfectly fine. Nothing needs changed.
What are you going to do if and/or when they introduce radar modules? Scream for nerfs because they can see everyone that walks past? |
[Veteran_woess]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:13:00 -
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if we talk about technology we had infinite abilities to spot/kill etc. etc. and so on
but yeah spotting as an team work feature yes why not ?
spott someone so your teammate can easely see the enemy if he is in his sight but not give them the ability to see throu walls and minimap spotting for noobs!
if you have a teammate who spots an enemy yes say it to me throu voice (this is how teamwork work) but please don't activate an wallhack for me... this has nothing to do with teamwork if i can see people throu walls |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:16:00 -
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Well Spot & Mark should not be automatic at all IMO, it needs to remain for sure but not like this.
Players should have to press a button to spot & mark. |
[Veteran_Corvus Ravensong]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:35:00 -
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OP, so lets get this straight, if I can see you I'm not supposed to share that information with my friends? You find it unreasonable that a camera in a helmet can share your relative position with the rest of the spotter's battle network? You think that as soon as you dip around a wall everyone is supposed to forget you are there? Ever wonder what a sniper's partner is called? Or not understand the concept of what a spotter does?
Believe me, if I can see you down in that little wash in an Afghan valley, my squad is going to know exactly where you are, right up untill we spring the ambush that we set up in front of you.
"Give me 12 good men with good radios and eyes and I'll give you the hill, sir." |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:22:00 -
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^^^
I believe the OP problem with Spotting is that with this automatic spotting you can see enemies behind walls even if you din't do anything to actually mark them.
Making someone visible to all when he is in you LOS is ok, it would be the classic "I see him" in your radio example, but not when he gets behind a wall. |
[Veteran_Corvus Ravensong]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:26:00 -
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from what I've seen as soon as someone breaks all the lines of sight to them, and my side no longer has "eyes on" he vanishes from the minimap, and shortly thereafter I lose the chevron over his head. (practicing my spotting so I can more effectively call in the rain) |
[Veteran_King of Fools]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:31:00 -
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Templar Two wrote:^^^
I believe the OP problem with Spotting is that with this automatic spotting you can see enemies behind walls even if you din't do anything to actually mark.
Making them visible when they are in you LOS is ok, it would be the classic "I see him" in your radio example, but as soon as the guy gets behind a wall the automatic spotting should disappear.
Yeah, but even real life tags works like that. One guy tags an enemy at a specific point via a GPS map, and that gets overlayed on the other guys' HUDs. I imagine that centuries in the future, they would have this refined to the point of where it is in game.
And in regards to the OP, if you really have a problem with people seeing you on the mini-map then equip a scout suit. Seriously. As long as no one physically sees you, you're a ninja.
And how does your "wall hack" not entail team work? You're only going to see where he is through that wall if someone on your team can see them. Again - if no one can see them, then you can't see them "through the wall". Not rocket science. You're not even technically seeing them through the wall. You're seeing a GPS-designated position updating in real time inside your HUD. |
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[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:36:00 -
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Corvus it works that way but that's the problem: it take still some time for the lintel to go away oce you loose LOS.
Perma Spot an mark should be in Dust but it must be player controlled not automatic. |
[Veteran_woess]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 13:33:00 -
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Corvus Ravensong wrote:OP, so lets get this straight, if I can see you I'm not supposed to share that information with my friends? You find it unreasonable that a camera in a helmet can share your relative position with the rest of the spotter's battle network? You think that as soon as you dip around a wall everyone is supposed to forget you are there? Ever wonder what a sniper's partner is called? Or not understand the concept of what a spotter does?
Believe me, if I can see you down in that little wash in an Afghan valley, my squad is going to know exactly where you are, right up untill we spring the ambush that we set up in front of you.
"Give me 12 good men with good radios and eyes and I'll give you the hill, sir."
so what is voice for ?
say my position to your friends, squad/team.... they dont need to see throu walls and also i shouldnt be spotted on the minimap and they also do not need to know where im going to or where i am looking at...
if you see an enemy talk to your friend and say my position, i do not have anything against it... also use your brain to remember where i was and where my last position was
but to bring argument that we are 20 thousand or what ever years in the future is an endless and useless argument because i can also argue with some futuristic stuff so you can't see me because i have some uber xy developed anti scann suit so you cant spott me
see ? useless argument like "i have x and y feature in the future" is useless
it is just your imagination in the future how you could see me but not a real argument for spotting
teamplay ? yes of couse! use voice and your brain
Templar Two wrote:^^^
I believe the OP problem with Spotting is that with this automatic spotting you can see enemies behind walls even if you din't do anything to actually mark them.
Making someone visible to all when he is in you LOS is ok, it would be the classic "I see him" in your radio example, but not when he gets behind a wall.
exactly... this is so damn noob friendly.... i mean if you see someone, you have to talk to a squadmate or teammate and say him my position! and only my last seen position!
and it would be ok if the teammates could see only my last seen position on the minimap for an amount of time...
but not throu walls.... and so if we are in the future maybe you should also have the best route shown on the minimap to me like tomtoms navigation (lol irony)
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[Veteran_M Expedience]
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:35:00 -
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Maybe you should shoot the guy who is spotting you.
In Tribes, we called them light armors. They had tag lasers and brought much more horrible things than a little hud marker to the top of your head. |
[Veteran_Corvus Ravensong]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 08:27:00 -
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woess wrote:Corvus Ravensong wrote:OP, so lets get this straight, if I can see you I'm not supposed to share that information with my friends? You find it unreasonable that a camera in a helmet can share your relative position with the rest of the spotter's battle network? You think that as soon as you dip around a wall everyone is supposed to forget you are there? Ever wonder what a sniper's partner is called? Or not understand the concept of what a spotter does?
Believe me, if I can see you down in that little wash in an Afghan valley, my squad is going to know exactly where you are, right up untill we spring the ambush that we set up in front of you.
"Give me 12 good men with good radios and eyes and I'll give you the hill, sir." so what is voice for ? say my position to your friends, squad/team.... they dont need to see throu walls and also i shouldnt be spotted on the minimap and they also do not need to know where im going to or where i am looking at... if you see an enemy talk to your friend and say my position, i do not have anything against it... also use your brain to remember where i was and where my last position was but to bring argument that we are 20 thousand or what ever years in the future is an endless and useless argument because i can also argue with some futuristic stuff so you can't see me because i have some uber xy developed anti scann suit so you cant spott me see ? useless argument like "i have x and y feature in the future" is useless it is just your imagination in the future how you could see me but not a real argument for spotting teamplay ? yes of couse! use voice and your brain Templar Two wrote:^^^
I believe the OP problem with Spotting is that with this automatic spotting you can see enemies behind walls even if you din't do anything to actually mark them.
Making someone visible to all when he is in you LOS is ok, it would be the classic "I see him" in your radio example, but not when he gets behind a wall. exactly... this is so damn noob friendly.... i mean if you see someone, you have to talk to a squadmate or teammate and say him my position! and only my last seen position! and it would be ok if the teammates could see only my last seen position on the minimap for an amount of time... but not throu walls.... and so if we are in the future maybe you should also have the best route shown on the minimap to me like tomtoms navigation (lol irony)
Problem with your argument - as is if I'm the one with eyes on and I lose the guy because he goes behind the wall - the whole team loses him.
Lets look at IRL modern militaray communications tech that's in development and testing RIGHT NOW, camera mounted to side of kevlar, range finder likewise mounted to helmet. GPS unit for precise location and facing of soldier, allowing the camera and laser rangefinder to automaticly and precisely update a given objects location on the map - without the soldier having to look away. Squad members use monocle to display tactical information including, but not limited to orders, maps, pictures of target for positive ID, instructions for performing untrained action, live video feed from squad member's camerasand because they usually have an internet connection on the command unit and it's soldiers, ****...
If this can be done, RIGHT NOW with OFF THE SHELF technologies - I'd say you don't just want advancement to stagnate for your game - you want the Sci Fi tech in game to be less effective than what we can already do right now.
M Expedience - just wait for integration and orbital bombardment ;-P |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 08:41:00 -
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^^^
Really pal the only problem me and the OP have is that everything is automatic and that losing LOS doesn't mean losing Intel.
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[Veteran_NikNak Trhanhm]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 08:46:00 -
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Whiners will whine
Anyway, spotting/tagging, as Templar said, should stay and get reformed. Firing should pop a marker on the minimap for, say, 3-5 seconds, sprinting should pop a marker during, and direct line of sight should pop one as well, but none of these(except MAYBE gunfire) should ping a chevron. I think there should be a hard spotting feature -- perhaps with the left d-pad button, since it's dead in combat -- that marks a target for either an extended period of time or permanently, accompanied by a chevron that can be seen for X meters. However, if the target is pinged until death, I don't think the chevron should stick with them. Say they get spotted, but manage to take out the small group of soldiers who spotted them. Having already been pinged for the entire team and staying alive, maybe the chevron eventually fades, say after one or two minutes. I even kind of like the idea of the spotting soldier's helmet acting as a transmitter for each spotted enemy, thus erasing any spots upon death.
Getting rid of spotting altogether is a terrible, terrible idea. Maybe if the OP spent less time watching the little red chevrons bouncing around, they'd be able to do something about them. |
[Veteran_woess]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 08:55:00 -
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"Problem with your argument - as is if I'm the one with eyes on and I lose the guy because he goes behind the wall - the whole team loses him. "
that is not a problem thats my argument....
i just do not want that dust becomes some noobfiendly game without any skil....
like i said before.... if we talk about rechnology, we also have RIGHT NOW many things for stealth etc etc.... you still didn't bring 1 argument for spotting as an gameplay feature... or how spotting is making the game better... without beeing a no brain game for noobs who can't use their brain....
so if you spotted someone than mark him (so your team can see him on the minimap, but not where he is looking at and not throu walls)) and you already know his position.. also you can say it to your teammates throu voice like i said before.... but if you have not enouth brain in your head of course you will loose the enemy... but if you have some skill/ map knowladge you will know what the enemy is going to do in his position, and you also will know where he could go or what he could do....
you don't need a wallhack to to know what the enemy is doing
please argue with some argument for spotting as a better gameplay feture and not with invaled argument like "in reallife we have xy stuff" and than you say "hey its ski fi "we could have xy stuff" please stop to imaginate what we could have or what we have RIGHT now in the developement... bring some arguments for spotting as an gameplay feature and how it makes the game to a skillbased/teambased and not an noob friendly cod for kids game...
stop talking like the game is an simulation of the future bring arguments for spotting as an gameplay feture.... bring some argument for an wallhack ingame if you have an 1on1 fight with someone you can see throu walls and he cant because you aren spotted... or other arguments for an wallhack in fights
just to make it clear i do not have anything agains spotting... i just do not like the includet wallhack if you spott someone |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 09:09:00 -
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This spotting system, works magnificently BUT it removes the need a intel specific role/class.
If everyone can highlight you on the map simply with LOS then sensors are really not that useful. |
[Veteran_gangsta nachos]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 09:39:00 -
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I hate the spotting personally it seems cheap, there shouldn't be a symbol above my head or the enemy's head. If you want to spot enemy's get on your headset and do it the right way, like hey guys I just got killed and tell them where you were or if someone is about to take an objective let your team know what letter. |
[Veteran_woess]
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Posted - 2012.06.25 10:17:00 -
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since i am an bf player i know how spotting work and i think i show you how it should work and how it shouldn't
first i show you some examples how spotting shouldn't work because of the wallhack it includes
btw ccp copied the spotting system.. it is a hybrid of bc2/bf1943 because you don't need to push any buttons to spott an enemy and to show the enemy to your team, it spots the enemy automaticly if you see/aim at him like in 1943 (and in 1943 you had really to aim at the enemy to spot him).... and why i am saying it's an hybrid of bc2 and 1943 is because you can see the enemies throu walls and throu vegitation and so on like in bc2
here is just an example how you can use the wallhack the spotting includes
it has nothing to do with skill or teamplay.... spot/ see throud vegitation shoot -> kill (wallhack)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-MtDcC47AQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSuSjWqRnXQ
seeing the enemy throu walls/ vegitation is not how spotting should work !
also if you shoot you shouldn't be spotted... audio spotting is not how spotting should work... ti makes the game less skillbased, it just includes just an minimap spotting hack
you can see audio spotting at the first seconds of the video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru-1W1BgSbQ
also please ccp disable auto spotting to make dust a better game
and now i show you how it should work !
spot the enemy and show you teammates where the enemy is but you can only see the spotted enemy if the enemy is in your sight!... also your team can see the spotted triangle from the enemy only if he is in their sight !
this is how teamplay/spotting should work without giving you an ingame wallhack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_moMkf0NAk
make shure you watch at the enemy as the player spots the enemy, the enemy is always spotted but he can't see him throu walls, but he can show the enemies position to his teammates what makes this spotting system more teambased/skillbased than the first one
now here are some videos how you can use spotting as an teamplay feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpurkoJBx58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V17cvGAC2Y |
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