DUST Search - Structures need a MASSIVE HP boost, or the Sagaris a nerf!

Dao Ferret wrote:

RocHolliday wrote:

I have been running a tank and I do not kill with such ease. I have a blaster as my main and side. A level 2 rocket on top. First it is rare to get competent gunners...then even rarer they have mics. In the current set up missiles are crazy rdm when they shoot...but we suspect that will change. With all the cliffs in these maps tanks are not safe. Swarms do crazy damage. If you had 3 anti tank infantry vs. a tank with 3 guys in it I say it is a 50/50 battle. Depending on how smart the players are...and fyi: my tank cost 222000 isk. I can not bring it into every battle it just cost too much money. I actually believe the balance with tanks and men and their cost is quite well done.

edit...but the tanks being able to win on long shooting first objectives is cheap and should be addressed. They do kill it quicker then a team could organize anti infantry to that location.I have been told of players directly attacking the MCC but I do not know to what effect.

You can directly attack the MCC and help take down its shields faster (or its armor if your on stage 2). I'm not sure how much it helps, but I've heard of a few people sitting with nano-hives and swarm launchers or forge guns and helping pound the MCC to ensure a Defender victory.

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[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 06:47:00 - [1] - Quote To put it mildly. Now that some people are driving for instance a highly fitted Sagaris, they can more or less just leisurely roam around, 1-4 hit kill just about any interactive structure, be it clone units, turrets or defence posts. Basically, if I see the enemy have a Sagaris, I change mode to just kill kill kill and forget about taking the control nodes, because we lost already. As stated earlier on this forum, if you lose the first stage with the enemy MCC having more than about 60% shield, there is no way you can win by having just the null cannons active, even if you can keep control of those all the time. The top fitted Sagaris I ran into yesterday, in all my battles, with the same driver, and always on the enemy team (statistics and randomness took a leave of absence) usually ensured that the enemy MCC had 70-80% shield left, and equally often ensured that our MCC died because he just sat in the Bio mass centre and killed anyone that approached C and A. It is tall enough to hit both without moving much, and the splash damage from its rocket is insane.
[Veteran_Rhadiem] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 07:27:00 - [2] - Quote Do you know how to lock on with swarm launchers? I love it when vehicles take the field, they give nice xp. :)
[Veteran_Dao Ferret] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 07:40:00 - [3] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Do you know how to lock on with swarm launchers? I love it when vehicles take the field, they give nice xp. :) SwarmLaunchers ... Not just for Infantry(tm)
[Veteran_Osiris Greywolf] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 09:06:00 - [4] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: To put it mildly. Now that some people are driving for instance a highly fitted Sagaris, they can more or less just leisurely roam around, 1-4 hit kill just about any interactive structure, be it clone units, turrets or defence posts. Basically, if I see the enemy have a Sagaris, I change mode to just kill kill kill and forget about taking the control nodes, because we lost already. As stated earlier on this forum, if you lose the first stage with the enemy MCC having more than about 60% shield, there is no way you can win by having just the null cannons active, even if you can keep control of those all the time. The top fitted Sagaris I ran into yesterday, in all my battles, with the same driver, and always on the enemy team (statistics and randomness took a leave of absence) usually ensured that the enemy MCC had 70-80% shield left, and equally often ensured that our MCC died because he just sat in the Bio mass centre and killed anyone that approached C and A. It is tall enough to hit both without moving much, and the splash damage from its rocket is insane. I think that a fully upgraded Marauder should be more expensive than they are instead of nerfed. When you get down to it, a tanks a tank, not a fluffy, oversized water gun, but I think that in itself should reflect in the cost of such a vehicle. EDIT: also, those large railguns need a damage increase, IMO.
[Veteran_Dusty Naht'kabaret] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 09:12:00 - [5] - Quote Even with a fully pimped Sagaris, I've found plenty of ways to die in it. I've also killed plenty of them, and that's just with a forge gun or remote explosives. Right now, for the most part, teams aren't very organized. When you have 20 dudes under your command, it's pretty easy to delegate 3 dudes to set up C4 at choke points OR coordinate anti-tank weapons. Plus stasis webs are coming in. Concerning structures: It's likely a slight boost to HP is in order. But not much. The sagaris you're talking about relies on destroying the structures from long range. It'd be pretty easy to set up a logi jeep and rep it as a counter. Let the tanks have their fun.
[Veteran_Gene Dravon] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 09:18:00 - [6] - Quote The problem is that a single soldier with a standard swarm launcher can easily take out pretty much any structure without much effort. Any sort of coordination and you can pretty much alpha kill anything with a 3-4 guys.
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 10:41:00 - [7] - Quote Rhadiem wrote: Do you know how to lock on with swarm launchers? I love it when vehicles take the field, they give nice xp. :) 2nd rule of combat applies, if you can see them, they can see you... I get perhaps one or two rounds off, then they kill me when I try to lock up for the third. Even if I relocate.
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 15:36:00 - [8] - Quote Addition. Dusty, you said there are plenty of ways to die in it, then why aren't the buggers dying? All the driver has to do is pop off one of it's rockets in the general direction of the player with the swarm launcher, and a kill is all but certain. The splash damage it just insane. I understand it is a tank. But we need a balance making it at least possible to kill it. Also, by initial complaint were that the fixed, interactive, structures need a HP boos so that a sagaris, or a 3-4 man group of swarm launcher guys can't kill all enemy structures in short order, severely limiting the oppositions ability to mount a defence. I know it's a game, and not reality. Which is actually why I'm suggesting this. People tend to get frustrated, then grow tired of a game where they are being mowed down all the time. And why is it that just about every single game I've been in yesterday and today, the opposition had a top fitted Sagaris, and my side had none? Random chances should have ensured that we should be mixed up a little.
[Veteran_Commsnipes16] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 17:00:00 - [9] - Quote Good point Dewie. In the past 3 games I played, all 3 were won because the Sagaris came and destroyed objective B and A. We had honestly pushed the attackers back into their initial spawn and they weren't even able to make it past our first clone reserve unit. I think clone reserve units and objectives should not be able to be destroyed by vehicles. Only large and small blaster installations should be. The fact that objectives can be destroyed is decreasing the amount of teamwork needed because the attackers just hold back while one guy in a tank destroys it
[Veteran_RocHolliday] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 17:10:00 - [10] - Quote I have been running a tank and I do not kill with such ease. I have a blaster as my main and side. A level 2 rocket on top. First it is rare to get competent gunners...then even rarer they have mics. In the current set up missiles are crazy rdm when they shoot...but we suspect that will change. With all the cliffs in these maps tanks are not safe. Swarms do crazy damage. If you had 3 anti tank infantry vs. a tank with 3 guys in it I say it is a 50/50 battle. Depending on how smart the players are...and fyi: my tank cost 222000 isk. I can not bring it into every battle it just cost too much money. I actually believe the balance with tanks and men and their cost is quite well done. edit...but the tanks being able to win on long shooting first objectives is cheap and should be addressed. They do kill it quicker then a team could organize anti infantry to that location.I have been told of players directly attacking the MCC but I do not know to what effect.

[Veteran_Dao Ferret] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 17:31:00 - [11] - Quote RocHolliday wrote: I have been running a tank and I do not kill with such ease. I have a blaster as my main and side. A level 2 rocket on top. First it is rare to get competent gunners...then even rarer they have mics. In the current set up missiles are crazy rdm when they shoot...but we suspect that will change. With all the cliffs in these maps tanks are not safe. Swarms do crazy damage. If you had 3 anti tank infantry vs. a tank with 3 guys in it I say it is a 50/50 battle. Depending on how smart the players are...and fyi: my tank cost 222000 isk. I can not bring it into every battle it just cost too much money. I actually believe the balance with tanks and men and their cost is quite well done. edit...but the tanks being able to win on long shooting first objectives is cheap and should be addressed. They do kill it quicker then a team could organize anti infantry to that location.I have been told of players directly attacking the MCC but I do not know to what effect. You can directly attack the MCC and help take down its shields faster (or its armor if your on stage 2). I'm not sure how much it helps, but I've heard of a few people sitting with nano-hives and swarm launchers or forge guns and helping pound the MCC to ensure a Defender victory.
[Veteran_Skytt Syysch] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 18:18:00 - [12] - Quote Dao Ferret wrote: RocHolliday wrote: I have been running a tank and I do not kill with such ease. I have a blaster as my main and side. A level 2 rocket on top. First it is rare to get competent gunners...then even rarer they have mics. In the current set up missiles are crazy rdm when they shoot...but we suspect that will change. With all the cliffs in these maps tanks are not safe. Swarms do crazy damage. If you had 3 anti tank infantry vs. a tank with 3 guys in it I say it is a 50/50 battle. Depending on how smart the players are...and fyi: my tank cost 222000 isk. I can not bring it into every battle it just cost too much money. I actually believe the balance with tanks and men and their cost is quite well done. edit...but the tanks being able to win on long shooting first objectives is cheap and should be addressed. They do kill it quicker then a team could organize anti infantry to that location.I have been told of players directly attacking the MCC but I do not know to what effect. You can directly attack the MCC and help take down its shields faster (or its armor if your on stage 2). I'm not sure how much it helps, but I've heard of a few people sitting with nano-hives and swarm launchers or forge guns and helping pound the MCC to ensure a Defender victory. I honestly don't know how effective this is. I sat in a large missile turret once and just unloaded for a good 3-5 mins straight while all of the final points were taken (so I was the only thing damaging it unless another teammate was shooting too). I never saw the health bar move. Maybe it did a pixel or two, but it wasn't visible to me. Maybe it has shield regen and that was offsetting any damage I did. I was getting points for damaging it the whole time, but yeah, it seemed pointless as a solo effort (solo being in a freaking large missile turret).
[Veteran_Rhapsodyy] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 18:35:00 - [13] - Quote Agreed as an above poster says that even in a pimped sagaris theres still plenty of ways to die, though a good tank driver can make it harder for enemies to take him down. Once we see proper party system and teamwork and players co-ordinating their fire, im sure we will see them die more. However i do agree that the Relays need their health buffed, my rail fit sagaris takes them out within a handful of shots, maybe 6-8 or so. They should be harder for tnaks to take out so players are forced to play the objective more.
[Veteran_Dewie Cheecham] 0	Posted - 2012.06.24 21:01:00 - [14] - Quote Rhapsodyy wrote: Agreed as an above poster says that even in a pimped sagaris theres still plenty of ways to die, though a good tank driver can make it harder for enemies to take him down. Once we see proper party system and teamwork and players co-ordinating their fire, im sure we will see them die more. However i do agree that the Relays need their health buffed, my rail fit sagaris takes them out within a handful of shots, maybe 6-8 or so. They should be harder for tnaks to take out so players are forced to play the objective more. I'm happy that you say that, because I clearly remember YOU being the bane of my game this morning :P I lost count of the times you offed me.


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