DUST Search - Revisiting the 'Mercy Rule' Approach

Cross Atu wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Hey man

First apologies for this post being short on detail, I sliced my hand open recently so it's hard to type.

Second as we've debated the subject before I'm sure you know I am not at base a fan of match quick eject mechanics [reiteration of why redacted due to laceration

]

Third, speaking as someone who is generally not a fan of such things I find the quoted ideas very interesting indeed.

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot)

Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42)

Idea 1; I've only been looking at it for awhile but I see no way to use this idea to beak/exploit the game in a terrible way.
If everyone on a team really wants to GTFO because a match is too far gone to really HTFU then by all means hand their opponents the win and call it a day. It really is key that this requires the whole team to make the choice not a few members of the team making it for everyone.

Idea 2; I wouldn't take this idea as written, but I would say it is a very interesting possibility for secondary objectives.
Something along the lines of 'hacking secondary panels gives a boost to the damage of X null cannon(s)".
This could in part serve the same purpose as if you have full map control it would create the same damage buff.
This could also create a more dynamic set of tactics in match as secondary panels could have cool downs on fire and/or fixed duration until they flip back to neutral. This would give added value to both bunkering down and to assaulting new points.

And really, who doesn't want more diversity within our game play options Blink

Anyway, just the impressions of one player who usually doesn't go in for this sort of mechanic.

Cheers,
Cross

Hey Cross o7

Short post myself, I hate typing on a tablet as it takes far too long.

I ended up making this list of the ideas I could find because I felt that anything that could be implemented to help solve the current issues with team imbalance due to matchmaking issues, match filling issues, afking and match leaving was worth at least taking a look at. And more importantly, finding out if any of them were even able to be implemented. These issues have been around for a long time and I feel finding a means of working towards alleviating the harm it's doing to the game is one of the best things CCP could do to improve player experience at all SP levels.

A good idea is just as useless as a terrible one if it cannot be used. Would it be possible for you to poke someone to see if any of these ideas are possible, and if so are any of the ideas that are possible without a client update an attractive approach to helping fix some of our issues?

I'm sorry to hear about your hand, I wish you a very speedy recovery my friend Smile

I'll see what I can do about getting some tech feedback on this, and since I forgot to say so before, thanks for putting together the list. Smile

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Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:48:00 - [1] - Quote Throughout the history of Dust the Mercy Rule has off and on been asked for in a variety of different ways even as far back as 2012. Sadly in my search through the history of Mercy Rule threads the only Dev response was in my thread on it and that was simply Eterne removing some troll posts. Thread after thread, post after post has requested a quick way to end matches that have ended up lopsided for the sake of both sides. What I want to know is: is a mercy rule possible to impliment? I'll list some of the ideas below, CCP or a member of the CPM, could you get back to me and let me know if any of these are possible? I'm aware that some of these are only viable to help Skirmish (as they came up before Dom and Acq existed), but some variations of them could also be used for Domination and Acquisition as well. Game ends when one MCC's health get's so low that even capturing all Null Cannons and holding them for the rest of the match wouldn't win the match. (Coleus Rattus) 60 seconds after last NULL cannon is captured by enemy, "MCC preparing to withdraw". 120 second countdown begins and if your team even starts to hack an objective then the withdraw is cancelled. After the 120 second countdown ends the MCC withdraws and the match is lost. (Noc Tempre) Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot) Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42) And my old idea from a long ago locked thread on fixing Skirmish: Quote: This first part is the original idea, and below the line is Garrett Blacknova's proposed adjustment. How you can capture the enemy MCC: Put an MCC control override in the base camp of each team If you do not have control of a single objective for over 2.5 minutes, your redline becomes inactive, allowing enemies to enter your base camp If while your redline is inactive your team takes an objective, the enemy team has until the control of the objective changes hands to escape the redline before it becomes out of bounds again Once your redline becomes inactive, the enemy team can attempt to hack your MCC control override. The MCC control override will take around 2x the time it takes a null cannon to change hands once the virus is uploaded. If the enemy team successfully takes the MCC control override from you, they earn a 1.1x bonus to SP gains, a 2.5x bonus to ISK received, a 3x chance for receiving salvage and the battle ends immediately. Hacking the MCC control override in pub matches would destroy the MCC, whereas in corp matches the winner gets to keep the hacked MCC (once MCC's become a corp asset). How would this improve the game?: This would deter AFK farming a bit since your gains from it could be cut very short if the match ends quickly and your team is on the losing side. Your team would be forced to try to take objectives instead of hiding behind the redline since the redline will disappear if you don't get an objective quickly. This would give the winning side something to do other than sitting back and camping the redline. This would provide a mercifully quick ending for matches where one team is completely out matched by the other. This would provide a mercifully quick ending for the winning team so that they aren't forced to just stand around hoping an enemy tries to make a run for an objective. It would introduce new strategic elements into skirmish since you would have to learn plans of attack against every type of enemy base. ___________________________________________________________________ And HERE is the conversation from the origional thread explaining Garrett's idea: [continued in next post....] añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:48:00 - [2] - Quote [...continued] Quote: Kane Fyea wrote: "One question - Why would they have a control panel for the MCC on the ground? Why would they do that? This is why I think this idea is stupid. It can't just be down there because it is. There has to be a reason to have this panel on the ground." Garrett Blacknova wrote: "So it's not a control unit for the MCC. It's a TACNET control panel that manages data transfer between the MCC and ground forces." Baal Omniscient wrote: "That would also help to explain why using it to hack the MCC and trigger a self-destruct would take so much longer than a NULL Cannon hack." Garrett Blacknova wrote: "Indeed, the point isn't WHAT it is in the base that can end the battle, the point is that there is SOMETHING there that can. It could be almost anything. The whole point of it is to open up the map and to allow the swift end of drawn out skirmish matches. It just has the side effect of solving many other issues as well.Big smile Another suggestion (which is simpler and more direct, but seems less logical) is some kind of shorter-ranged, but more powerful anti-air weapon that takes the MCC out much faster. It wouldn't insta-win the battle, but it would speed the process up if you can hold it, and with the limited range, it would only be able to reach the "friendly" MCC above it, rather than firing across the battlefield like the NULL Cannons do." Perhaps set it up so that it's powered by the NULL cannons and it automatically starts firing after charging up (it charges while all NULL Cannons are under the control of one side for a set amount of time). You could even set up one on each NULL cannon and if the enemy owns that NULL cannon for too long, the AA cannon kicks in and begins to cause bonus damage on top of the NULL cannon damage. THAT would cause people to try to hold their bases much harder, as well as try to at least temporarily snatch away control of enemy cannons. Just different variants on Garrett's idea to toss around. So are ANY of these ideas doable in order to shorten stomp matches? añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.11.06 06:04:00 - [3] - Quote Still waiting on a response, soooo..... Bump. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations 5	Posted - 2015.11.06 17:00:00 - [4] - Quote Hey man First apologies for this post being short on detail, I sliced my hand open recently so it's hard to type. Second as we've debated the subject before I'm sure you know I am not at base a fan of match quick eject mechanics [reiteration of why redacted due to laceration ] Third, speaking as someone who is generally not a fan of such things I find the quoted ideas very interesting indeed. [quote=Baal Omniscient] Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot) Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42) [/list] Idea 1; I've only been looking at it for awhile but I see no way to use this idea to beak/exploit the game in a terrible way. If everyone on a team really wants to GTFO because a match is too far gone to really HTFU then by all means hand their opponents the win and call it a day. It really is key that this requires the whole team to make the choice not a few members of the team making it for everyone. Idea 2; I wouldn't take this idea as written, but I would say it is a very interesting possibility for secondary objectives. Something along the lines of 'hacking secondary panels gives a boost to the damage of X null cannon(s)". This could in part serve the same purpose as if you have full map control it would create the same damage buff. This could also create a more dynamic set of tactics in match as secondary panels could have cool downs on fire and/or fixed duration until they flip back to neutral. This would give added value to both bunkering down and to assaulting new points. And really, who doesn't want more diversity within our game play options Anyway, just the impressions of one player who usually doesn't go in for this sort of mechanic. Cheers, Cross CPM mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.11.06 19:31:00 - [5] - Quote With the advantages of SSD's.. increasing the dmg once all Nullcannons are hacked is a BAD idea.. Already, battles can be decided by who got there first.. making this even more one-sided is not something we need. A work-around could be.. if all Nullcannons are held for 5mins, then the damage increases.. SSD's already ruin battles.. no need to hand more perks to using them. SOONtm
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.11.07 00:25:00 - [6] - Quote No content, just a post of support. All ideas posed have some merit, would support any/all. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Taskanoss Abstract Requiem 89	Posted - 2015.11.07 06:49:00 - [7] - Quote One word "Thale's" and any of these ideas would make them almost obsolete...please make this happen ASAP. GÇ£Nothing external to you has any power over you.GÇ¥
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.11.07 07:52:00 - [8] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Hey man First apologies for this post being short on detail, I sliced my hand open recently so it's hard to type. Second as we've debated the subject before I'm sure you know I am not at base a fan of match quick eject mechanics [reiteration of why redacted due to laceration ] Third, speaking as someone who is generally not a fan of such things I find the quoted ideas very interesting indeed. Baal Omniscient wrote: Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot) Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42) Idea 1; I've only been looking at it for awhile but I see no way to use this idea to beak/exploit the game in a terrible way. If everyone on a team really wants to GTFO because a match is too far gone to really HTFU then by all means hand their opponents the win and call it a day. It really is key that this requires the whole team to make the choice not a few members of the team making it for everyone. Idea 2; I wouldn't take this idea as written, but I would say it is a very interesting possibility for secondary objectives. Something along the lines of 'hacking secondary panels gives a boost to the damage of X null cannon(s)". This could in part serve the same purpose as if you have full map control it would create the same damage buff. This could also create a more dynamic set of tactics in match as secondary panels could have cool downs on fire and/or fixed duration until they flip back to neutral. This would give added value to both bunkering down and to assaulting new points. And really, who doesn't want more diversity within our game play options Anyway, just the impressions of one player who usually doesn't go in for this sort of mechanic. Cheers, Cross Hey Cross o7 Short post myself, I hate typing on a tablet as it takes far too long. I ended up making this list of the ideas I could find because I felt that anything that could be implemented to help solve the current issues with team imbalance due to matchmaking issues, match filling issues, afking and match leaving was worth at least taking a look at. And more importantly, finding out if any of them were even able to be implemented. These issues have been around for a long time and I feel finding a means of working towards alleviating the harm it's doing to the game is one of the best things CCP could do to improve player experience at all SP levels. A good idea is just as useless as a terrible one if it cannot be used. Would it be possible for you to poke someone to see if any of these ideas are possible, and if so are any of the ideas that are possible without a client update an attractive approach to helping fix some of our issues? I'm sorry to hear about your hand, I wish you a very speedy recovery my friend añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations 5	Posted - 2015.11.08 03:33:00 - [9] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Hey man First apologies for this post being short on detail, I sliced my hand open recently so it's hard to type. Second as we've debated the subject before I'm sure you know I am not at base a fan of match quick eject mechanics [reiteration of why redacted due to laceration ] Third, speaking as someone who is generally not a fan of such things I find the quoted ideas very interesting indeed. Baal Omniscient wrote: Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot) Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42) Idea 1; I've only been looking at it for awhile but I see no way to use this idea to beak/exploit the game in a terrible way. If everyone on a team really wants to GTFO because a match is too far gone to really HTFU then by all means hand their opponents the win and call it a day. It really is key that this requires the whole team to make the choice not a few members of the team making it for everyone. Idea 2; I wouldn't take this idea as written, but I would say it is a very interesting possibility for secondary objectives. Something along the lines of 'hacking secondary panels gives a boost to the damage of X null cannon(s)". This could in part serve the same purpose as if you have full map control it would create the same damage buff. This could also create a more dynamic set of tactics in match as secondary panels could have cool downs on fire and/or fixed duration until they flip back to neutral. This would give added value to both bunkering down and to assaulting new points. And really, who doesn't want more diversity within our game play options Anyway, just the impressions of one player who usually doesn't go in for this sort of mechanic. Cheers, Cross Hey Cross o7 Short post myself, I hate typing on a tablet as it takes far too long. I ended up making this list of the ideas I could find because I felt that anything that could be implemented to help solve the current issues with team imbalance due to matchmaking issues, match filling issues, afking and match leaving was worth at least taking a look at. And more importantly, finding out if any of them were even able to be implemented. These issues have been around for a long time and I feel finding a means of working towards alleviating the harm it's doing to the game is one of the best things CCP could do to improve player experience at all SP levels. A good idea is just as useless as a terrible one if it cannot be used. Would it be possible for you to poke someone to see if any of these ideas are possible, and if so are any of the ideas that are possible without a client update an attractive approach to helping fix some of our issues? I'm sorry to hear about your hand, I wish you a very speedy recovery my friend I'll see what I can do about getting some tech feedback on this, and since I forgot to say so before, thanks for putting together the list. CPM mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.11.08 07:57:00 - [10] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Hey man First apologies for this post being short on detail, I sliced my hand open recently so it's hard to type. Second as we've debated the subject before I'm sure you know I am not at base a fan of match quick eject mechanics [reiteration of why redacted due to laceration ] Third, speaking as someone who is generally not a fan of such things I find the quoted ideas very interesting indeed. Baal Omniscient wrote: Match ends after no one on the team has left the redline after x amount of time. (Archbot) Increase damage to MCC from NULL cannons when all objectives are held (Thor Odinson42) Idea 1; I've only been looking at it for awhile but I see no way to use this idea to beak/exploit the game in a terrible way. If everyone on a team really wants to GTFO because a match is too far gone to really HTFU then by all means hand their opponents the win and call it a day. It really is key that this requires the whole team to make the choice not a few members of the team making it for everyone. Idea 2; I wouldn't take this idea as written, but I would say it is a very interesting possibility for secondary objectives. Something along the lines of 'hacking secondary panels gives a boost to the damage of X null cannon(s)". This could in part serve the same purpose as if you have full map control it would create the same damage buff. This could also create a more dynamic set of tactics in match as secondary panels could have cool downs on fire and/or fixed duration until they flip back to neutral. This would give added value to both bunkering down and to assaulting new points. And really, who doesn't want more diversity within our game play options Anyway, just the impressions of one player who usually doesn't go in for this sort of mechanic. Cheers, Cross Hey Cross o7 Short post myself, I hate typing on a tablet as it takes far too long. I ended up making this list of the ideas I could find because I felt that anything that could be implemented to help solve the current issues with team imbalance due to matchmaking issues, match filling issues, afking and match leaving was worth at least taking a look at. And more importantly, finding out if any of them were even able to be implemented. These issues have been around for a long time and I feel finding a means of working towards alleviating the harm it's doing to the game is one of the best things CCP could do to improve player experience at all SP levels. A good idea is just as useless as a terrible one if it cannot be used. Would it be possible for you to poke someone to see if any of these ideas are possible, and if so are any of the ideas that are possible without a client update an attractive approach to helping fix some of our issues? I'm sorry to hear about your hand, I wish you a very speedy recovery my friend I'll see what I can do about getting some tech feedback on this, and since I forgot to say so before, thanks for putting together the list. Thank you very much. Pulling these ideas only took about 20 minutes worth of forum searching, maybe 30 if you count the time it took to find the right words to put in the search box, so it was no trouble at all. There are multiple approaches possible to each idea so if the tech side has issues we can brainstorm some work arounds as needed. For instance idea one you picked out: the game could track players to see if they are leaving the redline, but there may be other indicating factors that could be tracked to determine this if player map location isn't something CCP can work with. I'm happy to contribute ideas if it turns out we may have something here. Thanks again Cross o7 añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù

Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.11.16 14:12:00 - [11] - Quote Checking in. I know there's a lot of focus going into 1.3 prep, just keeping this alive until I can get some feedback from on high añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
jordy mack WarRavens Imperium Eden 898	Posted - 2015.11.16 22:16:00 - [12] - Quote the problem with most of these ideas is that they can be countered by 1 new player going to fight the enemy. it needs to be very obvious to them that they are making a choice to prolong the game. Less QQ more PewPew
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.11.20 10:12:00 - [13] - Quote jordy mack wrote: the problem with most of these ideas is that they can be countered by 1 new player going to fight the enemy. it needs to be very obvious to them that they are making a choice to prolong the game. This is to end fights which are inescapably over, so all ideas are welcome even those which aren't as promising as others since we still don't know for certain what options are available for this purpose. añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.12.02 20:06:00 - [14] - Quote Still waiting..... Still hoping.... añ¼añ+añ¦-añ¬añ+añƒañ¦-añÿañ¿añ+añ+añ¦-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ *"Baal comes...and destruction follows him like a storm."* añ¿añ+añ¦añ¿aÑìaññañ¦añ+añ¿aÑìañºañòañ+añ¦añ+aññ-añªañ+añùañ¿aÑìaññ-añ¦añ¦añÖaÑìañù
lee corwood Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2015.12.03 16:27:00 - [15] - Quote I definitely find the two options between you and Cross interesting, but I'm not certain I would subscribe to the MCC panel idea. The only reason being is the same mentality behind Spawn camping CRUs. If the point is to encourage the (assuming) stomping team to end the match and having the ability to enter the enemy redline, I see a lot of people potentially ignoring the console all together to just camp the redline. Now it might indirectly cause the match to end early cause the option behind that for the defeated team is to just not spawn. So they'll either be kicked for inactivity or spawn to auto die and then manually leave. It would accomplish the same thing in essence but probably not as well received. The converse to that is your OWN team deciding to self destruct their own MCC. And to prevent abuse of that, let's say it takes at min % of the remaining team to hack it together thus causing that 'group' election. Just brainstorming, but honestly would subscribe to the other two options over this one. Logi 4 Life \| Youtube Vids
Ankbar Latrommi ScReWeD uP InC 156	Posted - 2015.12.03 19:17:00 - [16] - Quote I would prefer to continue getting practice. What I'd like to see is if I am 1 or 6 mercs hired to assault/defend an installation out of a budgeted 16 mercs, my share should increase. (The ratio of work has increase 2.3 fold.) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Union118 TH3 STRUGGL3 1	Posted - 2015.12.04 04:54:00 - [17] - Quote Skunk the game. If my team is going 20 to 140 clones then just give them the win. Also if my team has not captured the point once and mcc is half armor. Again just give them the game. In a good game the point would have been flipped several times. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
I-Shayz-I I----------I 6	Posted - 2015.12.04 13:11:00 - [18] - Quote Destiny introduced this mechanic and it's a very nice feature to have. However, giving the cannons more damage when you hold 5 points is a terrible idea. It would be like making kills worth 100 wp for the winning team...cause really what we need is a way to make the winning team able to stomp even harder >.> See, in Destiny, and pretty much every other game, you can't get spawn trapped because either the map design doesn't easily let you into the enemy base, or because the spawns change location based on where the enemies are. We don't need random spawn locations for skirmish like we have in ambush...but it makes no sense that there are only ground spawns on one side of the map. Imagine a square map. Right now we have both the MCC and ground spawn on opposite sides of that square. If the MCC spawns were on the north and south sides, the ground spawns should then instead be on the east and west sides. Obviously changing around the map isn't an easy fix. For now, something like if the enemy has 4-5x the progress of your own team, and that lasts for 2 minutes, the game ends. That would be like if they have 125-130 clones left, and you only have 50 (only if you are also losing) or If they have held all 5 points for 2 minutes or If they have held 4 points for 5 minutes, (like how they constantly take back the 5th one after you hack it) 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!


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