i would like it if we got to res them at full health..i mean we get extra nanite bouns for gods sake

The needles need an alternative bonus.

Agreed.

CalLogi Bonus - Combat Stims:
Players revived by CalLogi resist 15% incoming damage for up to 5 seconds.

CalLogi Level 1 - Revived players resist 15% damage for 1 second following revive.
CalLogi Level 2 - Revived players resist 15% damage for 2 seconds following revive.
CalLogi Level 3 - Revived players resist 15% damage for 3 seconds following revive.
CalLogi Level 4 - Revived players resist 15% damage for 4 seconds following revive.
CalLogi Level 5 - Revived players resist 15% damage for 5 seconds following revive.

* Tweak resist/duration figures as needed.

That's an excellent idea!

How about injection range per level? So that the cal logi has a shot at reviving players under fire that the other logis can't.

I do like the idea of the cal bonnus affecting the needle, but I would rather to see a 4-5% extra hp every time a cal logi uses the nanite injector.

That would remove the whole point of the tiers, though. The needles need an alternative bonus.

That's an excellent idea!

I think what we're really missing at this point however is looking at the underlying issue with Nanite Injectors?

Nanite Injectors are by far the most underutilized piece of equipment out on the market. I believe this is largely due to a culture where players will simply bleed out on death or forget to ask for a revive and subsequently bleed out. This is due to a circular relationship where players bleed out because waiting for a revive that wont come/causes significant risk upon revive is less tactically viable than just respawning. This in turn discourages logistics from consuming a slot with the needle because its likely people will bleed out before the Logi has a chance to use it.

Dont get me wrong, I know there are some Logi purists out there that stubbornly carry and try to use the injector, myself included. But anyone who has been around for a significant period of time knows that the use of injectors has been on a significant decline for quite some time.

Now I dont think your idea is a bad one, however, I dont think it will fix the above mentioned issue with injectors. Logistics will not be encouraged to carry and injector, even with revive perks, if players continue to simply bleed out, and players will continue to bleed out as long as Logistics continue to not carry injectors. So the real question is "How do we modify player behavior?"

I think the key to this is giving Logistics a reason to carry the injector that is NOT tied to revives. This way Logistics players will want to carry the injector due to this added benefit. Overall injector presence in the field will increase, players will start to see this, and be more included to wait for a revive. If we want to place an added revive benefit on top of that to encourage players to wait for a revive...that will only help to encourage people to wait.

Regardless we have to find some way to break the cycle that is causing a decline in injector usage. I know Rattati mentioned in one of the Skype chats about possibly giving the Nanite Injector the ability to buff alive allies for a short period of time....may that be damage resistance, increase stamina, ect...he didn't specify and was just thinking out loud. Regardless, even if you offered something like "+5% damage resistance for 30 seconds" I guarantee you would see Logis carrying around those injectors nearly full time.

here's a better fix...

1. remove needles as equipment.

2. add needles as part of all suits

3. scouts revive at 30%, assaults and commandos revive at 50%, logis revive at 80%

4. cal logi revives at 100%

No, it should deffinatly be equipment. Bringing back the dead should be an option you have to pay for, not a given. I like the buff idea personally and think that if played fight could add muh needed variety to the injector. Perhaps making them a more offensive equivalent to the nanohives area hardening function; injecting will give a live player an ammo regen and or armor rep boost for a few seconds(if it could be justified in the lord then a shield buff would be cool too) then we just carry over the cal logo bonuses as they stand.

its not a given. you still have to risk yourself to get the revive. they can still be killed before you revive them.

the needles work fine as is. the problem is that you can completely negate it by killing with splash damage. so if you play a team thats disciplined at killing the bodies then carrying a needle is pointless... theres no way to protect a body long enough to revive it.

Your suggestion was to make the CAPABILITY a given. Which I disagree it should be. It should be an option you have to pay for. Like grenades, ammo supply, or bringing reinforcement points.

its not a given capability though. it only works if someone else allows you to use it, which renders it useless if no one is paying attention. where as you can deploy or use all other equipment to benefit yourself, you cant revive yourself. and then of course theres the issues of splash damage through walls denying you opportunity to get revives.

theres way too much interfering with the ability to get revives, to the point where it doesnt make sense that it should cost an equipment slot.

its a quality of life improvement. people would use the needle more if they didnt have to give up actual equipment that benefits them. solo players dont carry needles, unless theyre logis

how many times have stood over a corpse when it was claerly safe to revive them, only to watch them bleed out? how many times have played matches where NO ONE had a needle be no one could be bothered to give up nanohives, scanners, rep tools, or uplinks?

too many quotes...

the cal logi issue to me is that nanohives are too easily destroyed. id like to see their bonus also include nanohive HP and radius so that you can drop a nanohive with some level of confidence in its life expectancy.

as for the needle, i agree with you. what about just making the needle give its hp regardless of whether a player is dead or not? if youre dead, you get revived. if youre not dead, you get a quick boost in hp. i mean if we think about it... why would it only work if were dead?

perhaps add a cooldown to it to prevent spam use, but it provides an alternative to the rep tool

Personally I feel like that would be too directly overlapping the rep tools use. I also think that this discussion could open up the doors for injector variants.
So we keep the base ones who specialize in reviving, so they do that best(though all needles should revive) but if used on a living ally it buffs regen for say 15 seconds, for oh...5-10hp/sec.
Hardener injector: revives at lower health, but gives DMg resistance 3-5%? Both on vervive and buff
Assault injector: revives at same health level as gardeners, but buffs speed (5-10%?) For 5-10 secs
And allow only one buff active at a time, but multiple buffs exted duration?

I think the needle is fine. The original complaints about the needle were noobs and trolls reviving people so they would get killed over and over to farm points. We could fix that by:

Making revives a two step process. You can stab anyone down with the needle and get points for the attempted revive. But the recipient still has to request or accept whether or not to revive. If they accept, then you get the full points for reviving them.

This makes the needle fully functional and useable by a player but also not abusable. Players still get the option of opting out of the revive.

Of course that doesn't help the cal logi much lol

Edit:

Stabbing a player with a needle while down should make them invincible for the remainder of their bleed out timer. So that they can decide to either accept the revive or wait for teammates secure the area first. Accepting the revive would cancel the invulnerability. At least then

The injector needs a general improvement added to it to make it more attractive to be revived in general, but as for the Caldari buff I personally like the idea of getting ammo back upon pick up as it flows with the bonus already in place and doesn't mess with adding something that makes using a needle on another suit obsolete. Say 1 clip replenished for mlt/std needle, 2 for adv and 3 for proto. The 100% needle giving back full ammo. Tie the skill levels of the logi suit to the needles directly so you have to have access to the adv callogi to get the bonus to adv needles, pro for pro needles etc. This way Caldari gets a non-OP equipment bonus that meshes well with the existing one and makes it more useful. Then we'll need to look for another bonus for needles as a whole so they are more attractive to all suits.