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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is not a question about how good the bonus is, but rather how it was implemented on the technical side.
Back in this thread, Thaddeus Reynolds created a spreadsheet depicting the FoxFour AR changes.
Instead of calculating the new stats using ROF, he calculated it with a "reduction to fire delay" which not only matches what was stated in the FoxFour spreadsheet, but makes more sense when considering the semi-automatic variants.
The discrepancy here means that if it was a fire delay reduction, then the dps increase is actually a little better than 15%. So I'm just wondering which of the two it is, not arguing weather or not either it's OP, I just want the technical answer from either a knowledgeable CPM or CCP.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
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Posted - 2015.10.11 22:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump with more info and for visibility.
Please allow me to directly show the discrepancy.
A ROF bonus would apply a 1.15X multiplier to the base ROF of the weapon held. For the Duvolle AR, it would go as followed: 800*1.15 which gives us the new ROF of 920. From there we can calculate the DPS. 920*34/60 which gives us the new DPS of 521.3r.
But let's look at the bonus as applied as a fire interval reduction.
To get the base fire interval, we simply divide the seconds in a minute, (60) by the ROF of the weapon, (800). In this we find the base interval in seconds between shots is .075 seconds. After that we apply the 15% bonus by multiplying that number by .85 and we get the new interval of .06375. Then we convert that back into ROF by dividing 60 by this new interval which gives us the new ROF of 941.17. The new DPS is 533.3.
That comes to a DPS difference of 12 points.
So while it's not a huge difference, I think there should be some clarity provided one way or another.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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IMMORTAL WAR HERO
NECROM0NGERS
426
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Posted - 2015.10.11 22:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
1st
Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
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IMMORTAL WAR HERO
NECROM0NGERS
426
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Posted - 2015.10.11 22:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
idk if devs care bro they didnt bother to make sure skills even showed in skill tree for when new players consider specing stuff
Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 23:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
there is a way to test this out
however you would nee to have access to some recording device of good quality
if a full clip is 70 for a vanilla AR and at the std ROF it takes about 5.5 seconds to fully unload the clip
at 920 rof it takes about 4.57 seocnds to fully unload
at 940 rof it takes about 4.48 seconds to fully unlaod
this would mean that there's a tenth of a second or about the time it takes to charge up a magsec as far as the difference in ROF when fully unloading a clip on a vanilla AR with max skills at least
it should be enough time to be noticeable and since some weapons have perfect ROF it should be easy enough to dicern whether it is one or the other
a benchmark could be set by using an assault smg which has a ROF of 1.2k making it fire 20 bullets each second consecutively meaning a tenth of a second would be 2 bullets of difference 4.5 would be equal to a full clip (before min bonus) so considering the min bonus the difference should be about 1-2 shots of an assault smg
having a side by side comparison would be ideal but i am sure that the ROF could simply be tested with a non bonus suit as a control then simply taking the difference of each ROF to see which one is more accurate
Reserved
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
493
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Posted - 2015.10.12 01:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let me see if I can get Aeon to send me the raw footage he took for comparison.
(as I am also curious as to how it applies...for reasons...)
Edit: Downloading it now xD
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
493
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Posted - 2015.10.12 02:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok...so looking at the footage, it goes in about 4 seconds and 31 frames (video is at 60 fps)....so 4.516667 seconds....so leaning towards the delay section. The reason this is "about" is because even though I'm looking at it frame-by-frame it there are a number of associated delays...and it is difficult to tell when exactly the last round leaves the chamber, so (I'm assuming the real is a few frames smaller than the observed).
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
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Posted - 2015.10.12 13:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Ok...so looking at the footage, it goes in about 4 seconds and 31 frames (video is at 60 fps)....so 4.516667 seconds....so leaning towards the delay section. The reason this is "about" is because even though I'm looking at it frame-by-frame it there are a number of associated delays...and it is difficult to tell when exactly the last round leaves the chamber, so (I'm assuming the real is a few frames smaller than the observed).
Thanks muchly for the insight!
Hoping a CPM or Dev can confirm just for certainty though. You were right in the other thread, it just makes more sense to do a fire interval reduction for the sake of the semi-autos.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
478
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Posted - 2015.10.12 17:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
As far as I know, RoF is a calculated value, there is no entry for a RoF for any weapon in the SDE CCP has released, only fireinterval.
Ex: Assault Rifle (Check RAW SDE tab)
Notice the mFireMode0.[x] entries.
It's my guess that the skill that increments RoF for the Gal Assaults do actually reduce the fireinterval value of the weapon.
Also while checking on the SDE data you'll notice entries for displayAttributes.[x] which are the attributes shown in game for the weapon / item, for this case the entry [displayAttributes.1] is the RoF, if you click on the link to it's own SDE entry 353976 you'll see it references the fireinterval value.
When I DO get to updating protofits  , my calculation will involve fireinterval, not RoF.
~ of course, I could be wrong 
www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
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Posted - 2015.10.12 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cyrus Grevare wrote:As far as I know, RoF is a calculated value, there is no entry for a RoF for any weapon in the SDE CCP has released, only fireinterval. Ex: Assault Rifle (Check RAW SDE tab) Notice the mFireMode0.[x] entries. It's my guess that the skill that increments RoF for the Gal Assaults do actually reduce the fireinterval value of the weapon. Also while checking on the SDE data you'll notice entries for displayAttributes.[x] which are the attributes shown in game for the weapon / item, for this case the entry [displayAttributes.1] is the RoF, if you click on the link to it's own SDE entry 353976 you'll see it references the fireinterval value. When I DO get to updating protofits , my calculation will involve fireinterval, not RoF. ~ of course, I could be wrong
Awesome, thanks a bunch for the info, never even knew we could even get access to straight data like that.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Cyrus Grevare
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
481
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Posted - 2015.10.12 22:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP has made dumps of the data for us to use in the past, it was more frequent before, lately not  the links I used as an example make use of the data and show it on a web page (like my protofits site), other sites do this too such as stuff514.com
link to SDE exports in the Technology Lab
SDE thread
www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
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