DUST Search - A basic bilateral trading system is needed

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

TL;DR at bottom. Most of this is to address arguments against a basic bilateral trading system in advance (I'm busyish today and can't post much). You don't need to read all of it unless you're against bilateral trading.

At present, trading is limited to both players using 'send item' or 'send ISK'.
This requires both players in a trade to actively send their item/ISK without any measures in place to encourage reciprocation.

I understand that New Eden is intended to be a place where scamming is permitted, but frankly scamming is far too easy in the current implementation of trading.

In a trade, when one player sends an item, what reason is there for the other player to send theirs? Excepting the dislike of hte other player, there are zero consequences for it.

Does this enrich the game? Permitting scamming in New Eden was a way to build a richer world through interesting and non-standard interactions. This works in EVE Online - here, there is a developed trading system which permits scams to be performed with a modicum of intelligence, but there can be consequences for doing so. The system works there, and through contracts and the trading window simple bilateral agreements are possible.

In DUST, though? You can't track someone down and gank them in retaliation. You can't even feasibly get on the other team to them if you want to.

The premise of New Eden is that actions have consequences. It is this statement that is used to justify scamming - and normally, this would be great! It would actually add to the game experience.

But when there aren't any consequences to these actions, does scamming enrich the game?
Does it create a net positive experience?

Additionally there are simple measures in place in EVE to prevent rampant abuse of newbies - scamming in newbie systems is a bannable offence, for example.

I feel there should be a simple trade window added, because this kind of rampant, consequence-free scamming does not add to the game and indeed detracts from it.

TL;DR:

Add a proper bilateral trade window.

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Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 27	Posted - 2015.10.01 09:47:00 - [1] - Quote TL;DR at bottom. Most of this is to address arguments against a basic bilateral trading system in advance (I'm busyish today and can't post much). You don't need to read all of it unless you're against bilateral trading. At present, trading is limited to both players using 'send item' or 'send ISK'. This requires both players in a trade to actively send their item/ISK without any measures in place to encourage reciprocation. I understand that New Eden is intended to be a place where scamming is permitted, but frankly scamming is far too easy in the current implementation of trading. In a trade, when one player sends an item, what reason is there for the other player to send theirs? Excepting the dislike of hte other player, there are zero consequences for it. Does this enrich the game? Permitting scamming in New Eden was a way to build a richer world through interesting and non-standard interactions. This works in EVE Online - here, there is a developed trading system which permits scams to be performed with a modicum of intelligence, but there can be consequences for doing so. The system works there, and through contracts and the trading window simple bilateral agreements are possible. In DUST, though? You can't track someone down and gank them in retaliation. You can't even feasibly get on the other team to them if you want to. The premise of New Eden is that actions have consequences. It is this statement that is used to justify scamming - and normally, this would be great! It would actually add to the game experience. But when there aren't any consequences to these actions, does scamming enrich the game? Does it create a net positive experience? Additionally there are simple measures in place in EVE to prevent rampant abuse of newbies - scamming in newbie systems is a bannable offence, for example. I feel there should be a simple trade window added, because this kind of rampant, consequence-free scamming does not add to the game and indeed detracts from it. TL;DR: Add a proper bilateral trade window. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Axel Giatsu Fallen Angels Syndicate RUST415 130	Posted - 2015.10.01 09:51:00 - [2] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: TL;DR at bottom. Most of this is to address arguments against a basic bilateral trading system in advance (I'm busyish today and can't post much). You don't need to read all of it unless you're against bilateral trading. At present, trading is limited to both players using 'send item' or 'send ISK'. This requires both players in a trade to actively send their item/ISK without any measures in place to encourage reciprocation. I understand that New Eden is intended to be a place where scamming is permitted, but frankly scamming is far too easy in the current implementation of trading. In a trade, when one player sends an item, what reason is there for the other player to send theirs? Excepting the dislike of hte other player, there are zero consequences for it. Does this enrich the game? Permitting scamming in New Eden was a way to build a richer world through interesting and non-standard interactions. This works in EVE Online - here, there is a developed trading system which permits scams to be performed with a modicum of intelligence, but there can be consequences for doing so. The system works there, and through contracts and the trading window simple bilateral agreements are possible. In DUST, though? You can't track someone down and gank them in retaliation. You can't even feasibly get on the other team to them if you want to. The premise of New Eden is that actions have consequences. It is this statement that is used to justify scamming - and normally, this would be great! It would actually add to the game experience. But when there aren't any consequences to these actions, does scamming enrich the game? Does it create a net positive experience? Additionally there are simple measures in place in EVE to prevent rampant abuse of newbies - scamming in newbie systems is a bannable offence, for example. I feel there should be a simple trade window added, because this kind of rampant, consequence-free scamming does not add to the game and indeed detracts from it. TL;DR: Add a proper bilateral trade window. Or if you don't want to or can't add a trade window at least punish the scammer in some way. Recruiter for FAS Recruitment Post!!!!!!
Matticus Monk Nos Nothi 3	Posted - 2015.10.01 10:25:00 - [3] - Quote Can't see how scamming is a benefit for Dust.... just a way to screw people over without any real ability for them to exact justice. At the very least the risk should be properly advertised so that new players wouldn't get taken advantage of (maybe it is? I haven't traded anything). But really some system should be in place to add a bit more security.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 4	Posted - 2015.10.01 15:59:00 - [4] - Quote Axel Giatsu wrote: Or if you don't want to or can't add a trade window at least punish the scammer in some way. A window is easier. If borderlands can have it, every game can. Regressed to blueberry level.
CommanderBolt Dead Man's Game 4	Posted - 2015.10.01 18:03:00 - [5] - Quote I love CCP for allowing shady tactics but totally agree. In EVE it works because people have homebases, people have popular routes they take and locations they visit. It is a true sandbox where you can explore the stars. In DUST we have absolutely nothing like this. 100 people could scam you in a row (if you are really stubborn) and you might never see them in game as an enemy ever. You have no way to hunt them down or track them or do anything punishing at all. Oh you can slag them off on the forums I suppose... "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
Shart Machine Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.10.02 14:58:00 - [6] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Axel Giatsu wrote: Or if you don't want to or can't add a trade window at least punish the scammer in some way. A window is easier. If borderlands can have it, every game can. The only purpose for the Borderlands trade window is duping
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 11	Posted - 2015.10.02 21:12:00 - [7] - Quote I would prefer scamming require some modicum of creativity or cleverness, honestly. Will bring this up. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.03 16:48:00 - [8] - Quote Liked. A lot. I have a related thread asking for basically same thing, with lots of extra arguments (which are still standing without anyone succesfully debunking them!) linky: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2948355#post2948355 Please go have a look. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 797	Posted - 2015.10.04 02:23:00 - [9] - Quote So much yes. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 27	Posted - 2015.10.04 18:33:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I would prefer scamming require some modicum of creativity or cleverness, honestly. Will bring this up. Thank you. To me, that's one of the key points. It's okay for scamming to be a part of New Eden - but in such a way that it enriches the environment and promotes actual intelligence rather than being entirely consequence free. Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu

Vesta Opalus PROJECT OF KILLERS. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.04 18:35:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Add a proper bilateral trade window. I only trade if the other guy sends their item first. Dont even give a ****.
Arkena Wyrnspire Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 27	Posted - 2015.10.04 18:38:00 - [12] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Add a proper bilateral trade window. I only trade if the other guy sends their item first. Dont even give a ****. A sensible policy. But if both people are sensible? Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.10.04 19:45:00 - [13] - Quote Instead of a trade window which would be more complicated we should start with a contract system that looks like this. Select player Select create contract Select ISK requested amount. Select items to give Player is notified and can open contracts to accept under the market tab. Yes this is one way in the fact that only the person receiving isk can create the contract but given the amount of items out there right now a system of offering isk for any item is probably not the most possible thing right now. This could at least be used as a basic escrow system requiring some effort to pull off a scam. With the implementation of this the ISK cost of "give item" should be set at zero and contracts should be set at a base price. Why are we taxed for giving our own stuff to someone in the first place? The only voice for a port is the voice of reason from money drying up. More skins and 1% damage to keep Dust on PS3.
Ama Zarek BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2015.10.05 12:25:00 - [14] - Quote We all know CCP is not the best of strategic coding.


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