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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Note: I originally didn't factor in the pg increase for melee which hurts making brawler fits on the Minmando.
Quote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion).
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Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Addressing Knives vs. Melee
Jadek Menaheim wrote:1230hp Damage Complex Biotic Melee = 24,405 ISK [No Weapons or Equipment, the suit is the weapon] -Range: 1m -2 hits per second (if sidearm or equipment is held) -2460 DPS -No Charge time (can use while sprinting toward target) -Stamina Pool Management (Melee strikes on their own drain a negligible amount when you have Complex Cardiac Regs equipped; these increase stamina recharge by 100%. Sprinting drains stamina quickly.)
Fitting Cost 192 CPU & 31 PGU Includes: -Adv Minmatar Commando Frame -3x Complex Myofibril Stimulants -1x Complex Cardiac Reg -1x Complex
Ishukone Nova Knives = 12,975 ISK 460hp Damage - lvl5 Base Uncharged 920hp Damage - lvl5 Charged Attack 1276hp Damage - lvl5 Min Scout lvl5 Charged Attack
Range: 2.5 Charge: 0.6 Seconds DPS Range: -1533hp/s equipped on any suit -2126hp/s equipped on minmatar scout with race bonus active Fitting Cost: 48 CPU & 7 PG
The Minmatar Commando dishes out an extra 334 damage above that of a Min Scout with knives. The melee user can simply keep taping the melee button whilst the nova knife user must gauge the timing on when the charge meter is filled. A melee user however, must be very mindful of their stamina gauge. Sprinting is key to closing the distance on melee attacks, however if you expend all your stamina by the time you reach a target you will not be able to use your melee. The player may however still use their weapon; however, general movement and melee attack speed are faster with either a sidearm or equipment active compared to a light weapon.
Both Complex Biotics and Proto Knives are already above the killing potential needed to kill a heavy suit in 1-2 hits. While the Min Commando has a profile sig between 55-49db and a much larger hitbox than the Min Scout, the Min Commando has mobility with the Myo Stims to jump around and tank decent dps from a single target while in a berserk charge. This is effective for taking on a heavy under reps as the repping player is without an equipped weapon. The Min Commando will die very quickly when faced against 2 or more opponents with hit scan weapons like the Assault Combat Riffle or Burst Assault Riffle. Players standing over repair hives are much better suited to engage a melee commando threat.
The melee-centric focus of the Min Commando is more costly and more fitting intensive that what is needed of a Min Scout or any other suit wielding Ishukone Nova Knives. Those fitting slots may be used by ehp mods or profile dampeners, increasing the likelihood of approaching a target for a kill. [/quote]
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Death Shadow117
Wolf Pack Special Forces Rise Of Legion.
779
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Addressing Knives vs. Melee Jadek Menaheim wrote:1230hp Damage Complex Biotic Melee = 24,405 ISK [No Weapons or Equipment, the suit is the weapon] -Range: 1m -2 hits per second (if sidearm or equipment is held) -2460 DPS -No Charge time (can use while sprinting toward target) -Stamina Pool Management (Melee strikes on their own drain a negligible amount when you have Complex Cardiac Regs equipped; these increase stamina recharge by 100%. Sprinting drains stamina quickly.)
Fitting Cost 192 CPU & 31 PGU Includes: -Adv Minmatar Commando Frame -3x Complex Myofibril Stimulants -1x Complex Cardiac Reg -1x Complex
Ishukone Nova Knives = 12,975 ISK 460hp Damage - lvl5 Base Uncharged 920hp Damage - lvl5 Charged Attack 1276hp Damage - lvl5 Min Scout lvl5 Charged Attack
Range: 2.5 Charge: 0.6 Seconds DPS Range: -1533hp/s equipped on any suit -2126hp/s equipped on minmatar scout with race bonus active Fitting Cost: 48 CPU & 7 PG
The Minmatar Commando dishes out an extra 334 damage above that of a Min Scout with knives. The melee user can simply keep taping the melee button whilst the nova knife user must gauge the timing on when the charge meter is filled. A melee user however, must be very mindful of their stamina gauge. Sprinting is key to closing the distance on melee attacks, however if you expend all your stamina by the time you reach a target you will not be able to use your melee. The player may however still use their weapon; however, general movement and melee attack speed are faster with either a sidearm or equipment active compared to a light weapon.
Both Complex Biotics and Proto Knives are already above the killing potential needed to kill a heavy suit in 1-2 hits. While the Min Commando has a profile sig between 55-49db and a much larger hitbox than the Min Scout, the Min Commando has mobility with the Myo Stims to jump around and tank decent dps from a single target while in a berserk charge. This is effective for taking on a heavy under reps as the repping player is without an equipped weapon. The Min Commando will die very quickly when faced against 2 or more opponents with hit scan weapons like the Assault Combat Riffle or Burst Assault Riffle. Players standing over repair hives are much better suited to engage a melee commando threat.
The melee-centric focus of the Min Commando is more costly and more fitting intensive that what is needed of a Min Scout or any other suit wielding Ishukone Nova Knives. Those fitting slots may be used by ehp mods or profile dampeners, increasing the likelihood of approaching a target for a kill. [/quote] so the commando is getting it needed cause high damage but the minscout cans still ohk all but the most tanked out suit. What about instead of adding damage to NKs per lvl in minscout it increases how fast the knives travel to hit the target. Now they have less time to wait to charge again which means you'd be able to put out more damage. (if this is possible id love to test it) |
Jadek Menaheim
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
The thing I didn't factor in now with the hotfix data is pg reqs are being doubled which makes melee a lot more costly to run comparative to knives.
OLD Commando Melee
Fitting Cost 192 CPU & 31 PGU Includes: -Adv Minmatar Commando Frame -3x Complex Myofibril Stimulants -1x Complex Cardiac Reg -1x Complex KinCat
NEW Commando Melee
Fitting Cost 186 CPU & 38 PGU Includes: -Adv Minmatar Commando Frame -3x Complex Myofibril Stimulants -1x Complex Cardiac Reg -1x Complex KinCat
In this case, you'd have to drop a weapon and your equipment in order to fit everything with that 7pg increase.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
For those who don't know, melee doesn't deplete stamina faster than you regen it.
If you don't sprint into melee, you can do it indefinitely.
Try it on wall sometime. You don't break stamina regen if you're just melee'ing.
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
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TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:For those who don't know, melee doesn't deplete stamina faster than you regen it.
If you don't sprint into melee, you can do it indefinitely.
Try it on wall sometime. You don't break stamina regen if you're just melee'ing. ...only on minmandos without regs, and on suits with complex regs.
My sweet summer is gone.
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:For those who don't know, melee doesn't deplete stamina faster than you regen it.
If you don't sprint into melee, you can do it indefinitely.
Try it on wall sometime. You don't break stamina regen if you're just melee'ing. ...only on minmandos without regs, and on suits with complex regs.
I know for a fact that all minmatar suits can do it easily.
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Redacted.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:For those who don't know, melee doesn't deplete stamina faster than you regen it.
If you don't sprint into melee, you can do it indefinitely.
Try it on wall sometime. You don't break stamina regen if you're just melee'ing. ...only on minmandos without regs, and on suits with complex regs. I know for a fact that all minmatar suits can do it easily. The only one that really needs to be addressed is cloak punching on the min or cal scout. Heavy Frame Brawlers while powerful, are balanced.
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
729
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
The commando melee damage was supposed to be made equal to the other heavy suits PATCHES AGO.... If I am remembering correctly..
They skipped over it because the prevalence was much much less and wasn't a top priority, from what I can recall.
On another note, I think I saw Cardiac regs getting buffed + kincats losing some of their pg cost, so the added pg to Myofibers wont hurt so much....since any decent melee suit contains a combo of all 3 Biotics.
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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