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![[Veteran_wtfbooom]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_wtfbooom]")
[Veteran_wtfbooom]
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Posted - 2012.06.16 21:32:00 -
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Rifles:
Assault Rifle: Currently gains spread way too fast in hip fire mode, forcing people to "tap" the weapon at semi auto rate to be useful even at semi close range unless if zoomed in. This has been readjusted on the next patch, so we'll have to wait and see.
Breach Rifle: This is what most decent people use, the slower RoF somewhat fixes the hip fire accuracy loss.
Burst Rifle: Seems to have the same problem as assault, but it's somewhat better of.
Tactical Rifle: Why does this thing have a mag that's even smaller than that of the burst rifle?
Sniper Rifles:
All sniper rifles suffer from the same problem. Or rather the same combination of drawbacks:
-Gigantic spread unless if zoomed in: you're very likely to miss even while perfectly aligned to a target even at close range.
-Sway while zoomed in: This isn't DoD on PC, it's extremely difficult to offset the sway using an analog stick. It's not particularly *immersive* either, since future tech drop-suits which is able to handle everything can't compensate your character swaying around like a drunk while you're still able to "snipe" with the assault rifle with perfect control and stability.
-Crouching: The only way to remove the sway is to crouch down and stay still for a few seconds. Which is the dumbest thing ever since the current meta game revolves around spoofing the stupid aim-assist by strafing around.
-Maps: There are only two maps on the beta. Only the first part of the skirmish maps allows for actual "sniping" while the second part and ambush mode revolves around medium to close range engagements with a lot of clutter blocking the line of sight required for any sorts of sniping.
Even then only the charged rifle successfully performs the job which most people associate with the sniper rifle: delivering single shots of heavy damage over range. You should be playing heavy with forge gun if you want to "snipe" people right now.
Actually, consider removing the fast firing snipers and add a new weapon type which fires high damage shots (~100?) at a moderate rate ~90 RPM that's accurate both in hip fire and zoomed in mode for medium-long range encounters.
Shotguns:
Shotguns are... odd. I can't really tell if they are hitscan or not but they don't seem to be so. Right now they're quite underpowered due to the following problems:
-You can "hit" people on your screen and deal no damage.
-They deal very little damage unless if used at near point-blank range.
-Their fitting cost is very high for their poor performance.
-Sometimes their *shots* magically disappear when you fire them.
People who want a super burst damage close range weapon are better off using either the swarm launcher, or burst rifle/pistol. All three of those far exceed the current shotgun at close range combat. Really the only redeeming feature of the shotgun is that it's able to hold a lot of ammo.
SMGs:
Has the same problem as rifle. Breach is the best blah blah.
Scrambler Pistols:
Regular/Assault Pistol: Holds very little ammo, with other words very low potential damage per reload. But then it's just a sidearm.
Burst Pistol: Gains spread extremely fast and also takes extremely long time before it become accurate again. It's however also able to kill people extremely fast (assaults in 2 bursts) making it a better shotgun than....shotguns.
Swarm Launchers:
-Deals too much splash damage and used as a infantry killer rather than anti vehicle/structure: See "noob tube" and "whine" This will be readjusted for next patch, personally I feel like it should stay powerful but only vs heavy infantry.
-Takes too long to lock on to actually make it good against vehicles: On current maps, fighting vehicles with Swarm Launchers generally have three outcomes: the driver skills you while you're locking on, the vehicle drives away behind a cliff or a structure while you're locking on, or you kill the vehicle because you're close enough to simply dumb fire the launcher and still get hits. People are saying that it's going to get readjusted, but I haven't seen anything about this in any of the dev stickies.
Forge Guns:
The splash damage is too high: people are using these as anti infantry by aiming at the feet rather than anti vehicle. Will be readjusted on next patch.
The origin point for the weapon shot is weird: heavies can stand behind things so that only their upper torso/head is visible and still be able to shoot people despite the weapon being at leg level and should be blocked by whatever the heavy is standing behind.
HMGs:
These are too accurate, they're more like a focused light shaft of you are dead rather than miniguns. Next patch says increased heat build up and decreased damage, that doesn't sit right to me. The devs should be looking at what role they want the HMG to fill. Personally I feel like it should keep the damage/heat buildup time while decreasing the accuracy and maybe add some sway while firing so it actually feels like something shooting at 1500rpm that grants sustained cover/support. |
[Veteran_Baron Rittmeister]
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Posted - 2012.06.16 21:58:00 -
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agree with you all the way. assault smg has incredibly inaccurate hipfire while the breach can spray and pray all day long with higher power. OMG, hmg's. It has the highest dps, clip, and accuracy in the game- and top it all off by giving it only to the guy with a thousand hp. I know some things are going to change, but the other weapons either need a buff to rival the hmg or the hmg needs to be dropped a few pegs to even the field. |
[Veteran_Darkz azurr]
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Posted - 2012.06.16 22:07:00 -
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I agree op , sound about right, all of it. Hope the devs read your post . |
[Veteran_Alpha SnakeBlood]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 01:24:00 -
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OK id have to disagree as the hip fire is way to accurate with the ARs granted i use the breah exclusivle but i rarly have to aim down sights so i would say hip fire needs to have accuracy reduced while moving or while activly firing and the effects should stack most AR have little to no recoil and are very easy to fire full auto while aimming down sights they dont need massive reciold but some would be nice.
As for the SMGs they should be easyier to use than a AR while hip firing but would have more recoil while aiming down sights SMGs usualy shoot a relitivly anti flesh round often falling down when it comes to penitration especialy at even medium ranges 50m+ so they would likly be ineffective against heavies or armour in general which i think is already in place.
A sniper rifle should not be accurate while hipfiring a sniper rifle is designed especialy for placing one shot over great ranges this includes a long barrel which would meen the thing would be very difficult to line up a shot at close range.
having not used some of the others i cant say much about them yet
HMG i agree on that the thing should sway or recoil or something the thing handels like its on a tri pod
In general that something lacking in this game the guns have very little recoil and basicly are too easy to use. |
[Veteran_Cobalt Lavitz]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 01:28:00 -
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I have to personally disagree with reducing the lock time for swarms. Currently, they are very effective at surpressing or killing my dropships with their current lock time and super long reach. Reducing their locktime with utterly eliminate dropships from the game, they couldn't even take off without being killed. |
[Veteran_wtfbooom]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 01:58:00 -
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Cobalt Lavitz wrote:I have to personally disagree with reducing the lock time for swarms. Currently, they are very effective at surpressing or killing my dropships with their current lock time and super long reach. Reducing their locktime with utterly eliminate dropships from the game, they couldn't even take off without being killed. It feels like several seconds. Where you have to keep your target inside medium sized rectangle. The only two maps available are full of rocks/cliffs/cayons/buildings which all block swarm missiles even if fully locked on. So you have loads of opportunities to prevent people from getting an effective lock as long as you aren't hovering. Heck, flying around wildly at low altitude already makes it very difficult to get a lock on at all. If you've ever tried doing it.
I know that plenty of people aren't even aware of what lock-on is.
Alpha SnakeBlood wrote:OK id have to disagree as the hip fire is way to accurate with the ARs granted i use the breah exclusivle
A sniper rifle should not be accurate while hipfiring a sniper rifle is designed especialy for placing one shot over great ranges this includes a long barrel which would meen the thing would be very difficult to line up a shot at close range. The hip fire problem is with the other rifles, not breach (which is why you're using breach) breach is making the other ones semi-obsolete due to how fast they lose accuracy in hip-fire mode.
Try firing the sniper rifle without zoom in. The spread is worse than shotgun. As in, you're clearly not even pointing the gun forward. |
[Veteran_Zat Earthshatter]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 02:12:00 -
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All strong points, may I add a couple?
Tactical Assault : For some reason, the semi-auto has less damage-per-shot than the Breach. Coupled with rather slow-feeling trigger-mashing, this is a problem.
Sniper : Sway is dependent on skills. I haven't skilled them up so i can't say boo, but I still feel like its OK for an untrained soldier, suit or not. However, since snipers in DUST feel like they were meant for hit and run, the sway should be at skill-minimum instantly unless the user has less than 100% stamina, such as from sprinting/jumping.
Shotgun : The no-damage bug was mentioned in a blue post, fix inbound on next build. New reticule will make aiming easier too.
HMG : I think only one change would be needed-- an accuracy reduction while MOVING. HMGs should still be lethal to the ppl that don't know how to "orbit", but even wearing a suit that could bench-press a truck, that gun is too big to shoot while running!
Swarms : Make the lock-ons like they are in EVE - based on "sig radius". Dropships/LAVs get the lockon they have now, tanks get anywhere from 3/4 to 1/2 the lockon time, and infantry should take a darn long time(3x for an Assault) to lock. That's right, locking infantry instead of dumbfiring! |
[Veteran_Legendary Ecko]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 02:13:00 -
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The shotgun is unpredictable. I have killed Heavy guys with one shot using the default shotgun, but then taken 12-15 shots which have no effect on an assault, unless the barrel of the gun is inside him basically. |
[Veteran_wtfbooom]
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Posted - 2012.06.17 19:21:00 -
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Zat Earthshatter wrote:Sniper : Sway is dependent on skills. I didn't even know about this. Was this stated somewhere in-game? |
[Veteran_Natsu Pendragon]
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Posted - 2012.06.18 18:10:00 -
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wtfbooom wrote:Rifles:
Assault Rifle: Currently gains spread way too fast in hip fire mode, forcing people to "tap" the weapon at semi auto rate to be useful even at semi close range unless if zoomed in. This has been readjusted on the next patch, so we'll have to wait and see.
Breach Rifle: This is what most decent people use, the slower RoF somewhat fixes the hip fire accuracy loss.
Burst Rifle: Seems to have the same problem as assault, but it's somewhat better of.
Tactical Rifle: Why does this thing have a mag that's even smaller than that of the burst rifle?
Def agree the hipfire spread is horrible on the assault rifles. It's not bad at all with the burst fire rifles but every other one is terrible. ]
wtfbooom wrote:Rifles:
Shotguns:
Shotguns are... odd. I can't really tell if they are hitscan or not but they don't seem to be so. Right now they're quite underpowered due to the following problems:
-You can "hit" people on your screen and deal no damage.
-They deal very little damage unless if used at near point-blank range.
-Their fitting cost is very high for their poor performance.
-Sometimes their *shots* magically disappear when you fire them.
People who want a super burst damage close range weapon are better off using either the swarm launcher, or burst rifle/pistol. All three of those far exceed the current shotgun at close range combat. Really the only redeeming feature of the shotgun is that it's able to hold a lot of ammo.
I agree something is off with shotguns. From my experience using them seems like unless I am right on top of someone then the pellets just vanish and don't even reach players half the time the other half it does so little damage that I unload my whole magazine and they turn around and kill me. I haven't really looked into all the different shotguns but also would be nice if this is not already the case if there was variations for the shotguns and not just increased damage. For example the typical auto shotgun, semi auto then maybe a really high damage single fire one needing to be reloaded each shot.
wtfbooom wrote:Rifles:
Swarm Launchers:
-Deals too much splash damage and used as a infantry killer rather than anti vehicle/structure: See "noob tube" and "whine" This will be readjusted for next patch, personally I feel like it should stay powerful but only vs heavy infantry.
-Takes too long to lock on to actually make it good against vehicles: On current maps, fighting vehicles with Swarm Launchers generally have three outcomes: the driver skills you while you're locking on, the vehicle drives away behind a cliff or a structure while you're locking on, or you kill the vehicle because you're close enough to simply dumb fire the launcher and still get hits. People are saying that it's going to get readjusted, but I haven't seen anything about this in any of the dev stickies.
I completely agree the lock on time for the Swarm Launchers is too long which usually results in you either being killed or loosing lock on because they are able to get behind some kind of obstruction by then. Also as stated they do ridiculous splash damage to infantry but agree nice when you come across the tanked up heavies. One my main issues with the Swarm Launcher is the fact that it does not do nearly enough damage to the user when fired within close proximity to them. Numerous times I have ran up on a Swarm Launcher user thinking they would not use it then because it would kill them to only to be killed and only see half there shield be taken out which is ridiculous. If they fire it point blank it should kill them as well or do even more damage to them seeing as they are holding the actual launcher with highly explosive projectiles in it that would be set off.
wtfbooom wrote:Rifles:HMGs:
These are too accurate, they're more like a focused light shaft of you are dead rather than miniguns. Next patch says increased heat build up and decreased damage, that doesn't sit right to me. The devs should be looking at what role they want the HMG to fill. Personally I feel like it should keep the damage/heat buildup time while decreasing the accuracy and maybe add some sway while firing so it actually feels like something shooting at 1500rpm that grants sustained cover/support.
Again completely agree the HMG's are way to accurate I have lost in long range gun fights against heavies using these while I burst fire my assault rifle at them meanwhile they are just holding down that trigger and tanking the damage like it doesn't even effect them. I also believe instead of looking at decreasing damage they should look at decreasing it's accuracy and like you said adding sway and more recoil when going full auto to convey the fact that they are firing a gun that fast. |
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[Veteran_Fat Axel]
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Posted - 2012.06.18 18:21:00 -
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wtfbooom wrote:Zat Earthshatter wrote:Sniper : Sway is dependent on skills. I didn't even know about this. Was this stated somewhere in-game?
once u get the (weapon type here) operatioins skill up u get to unlock proficiencies and also for each stat i.e light weapon range, light weapon rapid reload, and so on, this alos includes the specific weapon.. operations for snipers increase dmg, but proficiency decreases sway |
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