DUST Search - Noobs in SF

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that one vet is permitted into every Low Mu match. He is expected to "coach" and "inspire" his side from the comfort of a Madrugar gv.0.

Now put yourself in the opposition's newbro shoes. You're fresh out of the Academy. You see a tank camping a point and mopping up your blue dots. Of course, you're curious and you get close enough to get insta-gibbed. You respawn in your Starter AV fit. Others do the same. You watch in amazement (bordering on disgust) as your team is decimated by a single player, all the while his tank absorbs and ignores one AV volley after another.

Are you inspired by this tanker's awesomeness? I probably wouldn't be. If observed in more than one match, I definitely wouldn't be. I'd think to myself, "Self, this veteran tanker has no business being in here with us newbros going 20/0 every match. If he did belong here, then the game would've provided us with the tools necessary to kill him. Because that's what games do. Either this guy is cheating, or the people who make this game don't know what they're doing."

If I suspected the latter, I'd likely uninstall. If I were leaning more toward the former, I'd take note of the cheater's name and leave battle every time I saw it.


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Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.09 18:20:00 - [1] - Quote So I REALLY didn't feel like playing yesterday. Been like this for the past week, sign on, play a few, get bored and tired, quit and do other things. So when I signed on yesterday, I really wasn't expecting to even play for any length of time. Generally, I just go solo and watch as my side get's utterly stomped or stomp the other side into the redline. Never fun when your on either side. Considering I'm in the higher MU bracket, it basically equates to try hard or go home. Sometimes I like an easier time of it, where I don't have to try hard (or I'm just playing terrible that day, like most every day these days). So I decide to go join some random squads in SF, and see what kind of matches I get. Often times it's pretty hit and miss. Jump in, wait 5 minutes and nothing happen. So you join another with the same results. Every now and again though you get in with a group that actually que's up a game, maybe even utilizing comms. That's how you know your in business. So this first group, mostly newer players to the game. A little bit of advanced, but for the most part basic stuff with limited roles. Most don't even know what direction to take (that new feature that's supposed to guide them is a terrific mess btw). Any how, they were talking isk and how little they had to buy better gear. So they each get 2 mil from me (I like helpin the noobs as much as I like playing with them). One guy was like, " OMG someone gave me 2 MIL!" he excitedly exclaims. "Yeah that was me, Tebu Gan" I respond calm and casual. Then there was this other guy, a somewhat more experienced player, but no where near the level of many vets. A true casual player. He noticed my OH tags and was like "Outer Heaven, your ok in my book". Just by having the tags I'm instantly awesome at this game (I'm not!). In any case I was basically a legend by this guys standards. So we go and play a game, DOM meat grinder in the silo. Man was I ecstatic, just recently speced heavy and REALLY wanted a good map to play a heavy on. So I play the part of the douche, and pull a gastuns HMG. All my squad mates were like "WHOOA, look at that gastun's", I like to imagine their mouths wide open in wonder and amazement. They were super excited because they smelled a win. One was a logi that followed me everywhere, racking up a considerable amount of points, another a recent scout that moved in behind with a shotgun as I distracted them with my awesome heaviness. The other, watched the point with his heavy. Eventually I pulled a GV.0 with an Ion cannon, and again a squad mate freaked out like I was some kind of legend. "OMG, you have a freaking GV.0 with an ion cannon AND a Gastuns! That's awesome" he yells. All I could say is that I have MANY things. "How much SP do you have" he asks. "Like 86 mil I think" I respond. Again, this kid freaks out. "I've been playing a LONG time" I respond, feeling a little embarrassed by that fact. End the game with 23/0, and most of my squad ranks up near the top of the board. My squad is in absolute awe. I laughed and made sure to inform the that I'm clearly playing in a lower MU bracket and most people I face on the daily don't allow me to do anywhere near that well. All in all though, I gave the noobs a good game (and a win to boot), some sound advice, and a demonstration on good tactics when running in a squad. So giving them 2 mil more isk and a GG, I was on my way to see what else I could scrounge up in SF. GG noobs, you gave me some purpose to play a little longer yesterday! Jist of the story, feeling bored with the game, jump in with some noobs in SF and help them out! (Sorry for the novel)
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.09 18:38:00 - [2] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: This makes me think that O.H is not just a group of O-stomping game killers. Im not sure if I enjoy the worldview consequences of humanized opposition, but I enjoy the fact that you acted like a good person should and mentored those who would otherwise eventually ragequit. Top corps get a lot of hate and for no real good reason. Because we play together with other corp mates or top players, and go full try hard and win, we instantly get bashed on for being proto stomping noobs. In the end, were just playing the game and playing good. Honestly, it's not OUR fault, nor are we bad people for playing to win. Though ever will you get a negative stigma for being a try hard or just better than some of your peers. And this applies to basically anything. Most of us are good people to begin with.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.09 21:40:00 - [3] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Honestly don't mind the try harding...Do mind the spawn camping. Seems OH. Skill of God, and AE excel at it. Hack or destroy those spawns, don't farm those same militia guys you just squaded with. We all know the match maker is broken and that games are usually one-sided, so once I see that it is I stop running off new guys. So I don't see why others can't do the same. I love 30/2 games as much as the next guy, but I realize that this game needs the new players more than it needs me. So, going 12/2 in lesser gear is something that does not run off half the other team after a week of playing. The squading with new players (not noobs as you call them) the is a great thing, but in all honesty, did you read your post...its an ego stroke. Congratulations you gave pocket change to some guys and basked on their adoration. Seems they did more for you than you did for them. Since you are already slowing down playing honestly the best thing you could have done was give them all your assets a move on to another game. One less kid needing stroked and seeing "noobs" goes a long way towards curing a lot of the games ills. Lol, there's always one. One, these were noobs, as that is the very meaning of the word, new player to the game. Two, I won't deny that it did help my ego. It felt good to be looked up at like that, yet, this applies to every human being on earth. Though while in a squad with them, I do remain humble about it. I don't throw it in their face and make an ass of myself over it. Three, don't pretend like you hold yourself to a higher standard. What is this, "running off the noobs" you speak of. So a team is losing, are they a team off noobs or a team of experienced players losing because of a lack of diversity in their gear set. There are several reasons for lopsided matches and not all point to noobs. It's been my experience, as this isn't the first time I've used SF for pub matches, that many players fall into the middle category (a lot of new players don't tend to use the SF). Neither new but not great players. They may have a proto suit and weapon, with several cores upgraded. But they lack the field diversity a lot of the pro players have. That's what wins matches, diversity. Sure one guy can run a proto heavy, but a team of proto heavies is going to get stomped by literally everything else on the outside. If they don't have roles outside that to acclimate themselves to the changing dynamics of the battle then they aren't going to win the fight. They will be at a severe disadvantage. Anyways man, when I started playing this game, isk was a HUGE issue for me. They greatly appreciated the isk and the sound advice. They enjoyed a win and the team work. While I understand the opposing team didn't enjoy getting beat what am I to do. And in all honestly, I started this game when there was no matchmaking, and check this out, I'M STILL HERE. This argument that they get stomped and quit just doesn't work for me. While some do, because the game is too hard, other persevere and stick with it.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.09 22:12:00 - [4] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: I will try my hardest to exploit this and get into the lower band. It doesn't work. Lol, like I mentioned, most players you come across in SF tend to be in the upper bracket or near to it. It's very rare that I actually find complete noobs to the game. But as far as the matchmaking goes, it's mostly dependent on the SL. If I were to make a squad and get a bunch of rookies in there, what happens is they play in MY mu bracket and get their poop pushed in and out their mouths. It's why I refrain from making squads for noobs to join as it leads to rather unenjoyable experiences for them.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:30:00 - [5] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: You talk around the issue here.... You started in easy mode. Everyone at or near the same level and no officer gear. These guys are averaging 50 million skill point differences from their opposition. Not to mention a 250 million + ISK gap. Glad you could stay with when it was easy.... Again, ABOUT YOU. You seem to be missing the point there. Again read the post man, you want a cookie or something because you squaded with some newer players? All I read was a guy telling US what HE did. If you want to help make the game better do that everyday for a couple months and look up the "very definition of the word" Noobs as you put it. It does not mean what you think it does. In any event at least you got half of the spirit right. Help new players so the game does not get any more stagnant than it already is. Just don't expect people to want to hear you brag about it in the GD boards. Meh, no "bragging" intended, just a recount of my personal experiences. Nothing more, nothing less. And in NO WAY did I start in easy mode bud. I started my dust career with tanks, and shield tanks at that. 5 months in I only clocked in at 10 mil SP and was nowhere NEAR maxed in my role. Don't even begin to tell me I started in easy mode. I took the absolute hardest route to get to where I am. I was an underdog for a VERY long time. I've learned a lot in that time and have made efforts to extend that knowledge to any new guy I meet that was willing to listen. This game isn't "stagnant" because of the players. The players play the game presented to them, it's up to the developers to improve the NPE. And honestly, if we want the game to succeed like COD or Destiny or whatever lame FPS you can call up, then it would have to become just another mainstream FPS. But Dust has strove for much more than just being another shooter, and in the process, alienated itself. It's not for everyone, and unless it wants to present itself to the masses like COD with auto aim, quick combat, and absolutely no learning curve then it would have by now. Yet this is what we have and I will say it's not for everyone. Gear differences and SP MAKE a difference in this game. This isn't a game you pick up and instantly murder at like COD. You have to commit and accept you will suck at the start . That's the RPG side of the FPS. The players aren't killing this game, this is just what we have. This game simply isn't for most people. And unless we want to fundamentally change what this game is about, it never will be.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:40:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: This makes me think that O.H is not just a group of O-stomping game killers. Im not sure if I enjoy the worldview consequences of humanized opposition, but I enjoy the fact that you acted like a good person should and mentored those who would otherwise eventually ragequit. Good person? This guy joined a Low Mu squad via squadfinder with the expressed purpose of playing against Low Mu opposition. And what does he do? He fields the single most broken item in the entire game against that Low Mu opposition. How many MLT Swarm launchers do you think it takes to pop a Madrugar gv.0? Best of all, once he's had his fill of farming newbros, he comes here to brag about his exploits, pound chest and play the "good guy" hero. :: slow clap :: Good people don't drive Blaster Maddies. Correction, I pulled out a maddie at the end of the match just because. It honestly didn't do much more than keep scans up constantly. And it happens to have been my role for 2 years now, tanks. Should I not run tanks because they are broken, nevermind I've been constructing feedback to that effect for what feels like forever now. And for one, I didn't purposely join a low MU squad. I joined a squad in SF and that's what I got. I played ONE game, gave some advice and isk, and moved on to the next squad. And keep in mind this is just a random squad in squad finder that ANYONE could join. My future squads were more in my level, as I swear there are only 2 types of MU, high and low. I can get in with people that really aren't that great yet they are up against some top proto squads. But it's ok, I'll take it. I don't feel proud stomping noobs, as I expressed. I was though proud that I could show some newbros what this game can offer if they stick with it. I understand though that people can interpret that story in many ways. Take it or leave it, I certainly meant no Ill and relished in the opportunity to help them improve their game. Funny thing, they didn't seem to mind in the least bit, yet here people are making a huge deal of it
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 14:51:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that one vet is permitted into every Low Mu match. He is expected to "coach" and "inspire" his side from the comfort of a Madrugar gv.0. Now put yourself in the opposition's newbro shoes. You're fresh out of the Academy. You see a tank camping a point and mopping up your blue dots. Of course, you're curious and you get close enough to get insta-gibbed. You respawn in your Starter AV fit. Others do the same. You watch in amazement (bordering on disgust) as your team is decimated by a single player, all the while his tank absorbs and ignores one AV volley after another. Are you inspired by this tanker's awesomeness? I probably wouldn't be. If observed in more than one match, I definitely wouldn't be. I'd think to myself, "Self, this veteran tanker has no business being in here with us newbros going 20/0 every match. If he did belong here, then the game would've provided us with the tools necessary to kill him. Because that's what games do. Either this guy is cheating, or the people who make this game don't know what they're doing." If I suspected the latter, I'd likely uninstall. If I were leaning more toward the former, I'd take note of the cheater's name and leave battle every time I saw it. Strange, I never go discouraged when I got stomped like that starting out. If anything I strove for it. Anyhow, I understand what you are saying but it's actually rather rare to find a noob in SF. Hell, just go play acquisition if you want to fight noobs. You will have a much easier time actually finding a noob because of the seemingly small player base playing it. But I did find a noob squad yesterday, again. One was a 7 year old kid and another 10. Name of the squad was "no bad words". Joining thinking it was a joke, nope. Could hear the kids dad in the background. Kid's dad get's him to que up a game rather quickly, so I stick it out not knowing what to expect. And boy did I not expect what I got. Pro sniper back in the redline, jumping mass driver from up high, pro rail gun on over look, adv scrambler playing peekaboo. I had my work cut out for me on that one. The 2 kids were just trying to figure out how play basically. A few on my team put in some effort to drive back the horde. I got the point flipped for them at one point, gave them high ground links to push from, dropped those proto users several times (true scrub pro users they were). Still lost but I gave those proto users a hellva fight. If there was a time I wished I never speced out of ADS this was it. Anyhow, without me, that would have been a complete and utter stomp. But those kids didn't seem to mind in the least bit, they were too busy trying to figure out how to fly a dropship. Not much I could do to help them, they just lack the hand eye coordination. So after that, I backed out of squad and jumped in another wishing them the best. As breakin has said, the matchmaking likes to test you. I myself find myself in low MU fights from time to time running solo, where I go through and just WRECK everything. Basically one man army. So I'm sure the low mu players get the same treatment, they get thrown to the wolves from time to time to test their abilities. And I've noticed in the past if you stay in a low mu squad, you WILL get placed in high mu battles on the regular. This is why I leave after one match, don't want to muck it up too bad for them. But as far as using the SF to consistently get into low MU battles, good luck. It's a rare occurrence. Another interesting tidbit, I've ran with a fella in SF, who spent his SP in the absolute BEST way possible. He did his homework, focused on a single suit, leveled up his core skills, ect. He did everything right that a new player should if they want to quickly succeed at this game. Got into a match with him, and knew immediately it was high MU. He told me that it was actually normal for him. I had just been going on, explaining to him how the matchmaking worked, yet here it is, NOT, working for him. He was smart with his SP, yet he lacked the gun game, tactics, ect, to be a high mu player. Yet here is matchmaking, throwing him to the wolves game after game. So keep in mind, matchmaking isn't perfect to begin with. You get low skill players in high mu on the regular just like you get high mu players in low mu on the regular. It's hard for me to simply assume players are using this to exploit a hole considering you don't often find a low MU squad in squad finder. And if you do, don't expect an easy time of it. There will be good players on both sides more often than not.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 14:57:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: But the "exploit" requires that you have the lowbies act as squad leader and queue the group. If you, the high sp psycho nerd queue the squad, it appears the squad defaults to using your score as the baseline. And I don't know if it would be a good idea to change that. I'm not sure how MU values work, but by just having one proto player in the squad doesn't always mean the squad is instantly godly. One player is good and the rest suck. Throw them in high mu, and while the high mu player is on the matches level, 3 are just cannon fodder.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:33:00 - [9] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Can't say I've ever seen Maken Tosch pull a 23/0 while showing newbros the ropes. Maybe he's doing it wrong. Do you think most D Uni trainers field officer gear and proto tanks when they train? This thread isn't about you, Breakin, and my comments/concerns aren't aimed at you. If you are bouncing back and forth between high Mu and low Mu, then you are by definition not a high Mu player accessing low Mu queue via exploit. You know, with all my dropsuit cores maxed, proficiency maxed, ect, I could have easily pulled this number in standard gear ( more so that slots are normalized). Even if I had pulled a standard heavy with a standard HMG, I still would slay and be nearly invincible with my logi reps. And not to mention I had some close calls many times. Even by calling in a MLT tank, I would have slayed and never had died. But after selling boosters, skins, apex, and officer gear, I now have the capital to run nothing but proto gear. So I have absolutely no loadouts with less than proto. I worked for that gear and I run it no matter what. Regardless though, std or proto, I'm still pulling numbers like that. And I've seen it done to proto players by MLT, STD, ADV. Running proto does not by any means make you invincible.