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![[Veteran_Skytt Syysch]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Skytt Syysch]")
[Veteran_Skytt Syysch]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 21:29:00 -
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I had 2 games in a row on the US 24-person server that A+B went down at roughly 60% shields still up on the MCC. The defending team lost, even when in one of the games the attacking team NEVER took control of the final A/B/C points (the other game they held a couple of them very briefly, basically someone took full control, got killed, and then it was reversed right away each time). The MCC had JUST gone below 50% armor as it docked in the game where all of the points were in control of the defending team 100% of the time.
Did you guys give a boost of some sort to the attacking team's MCC movement (maybe when those initial 2 points go down)? If so, it seems a little much. I was in a game where an HAV was called in very early on, and they just steamrolled both of the initial A+B points before the other team reacted, just shooting them to death in a matter of seconds instead of bothering trying to capture them, and then... there was nothing you could do. The game was decided at that point, even though it lasted another 10 minutes. The defending team had zero chance, because even with all the turrets activated in full force without ever being turned off, the MCC made it there waaaaay before it could be destroyed.
Edit: I personally feel that if you get the first 2 points down as fast as humanly possible, but then never touch the final 3, that should be the limit. Boom, attacking team loses right before their MCC docks. If they take over a point for 10 secs, fine, let that be enough to push them into victory. Then things need to be balanced based on when the A/B go down, but those 2 points should never decide victory in my opinion. Attackers still have a chance if they destroy those 2 points with 1% shields left, defenders should still have a chance if they destroy those 2 points with 80% shields left.
It used to feel like the defending team had a slight advantage, at least in terms of completely random teams, as they should be; it's their territory, they have all the defenses in their favor to begin with. But now, it definitely feels like something was changed, and that the attacking team has this unfair advantage of only having to have a reasonably good early game to negate everything else that follows. Things used to be close, even with the MCC being at about 50% shields when those first 2 points down (and attackers actually taking over the final 3 points occasionally).
Also, in that HAV rush game, the voice over never announced that the A/B points were under attack. It only said that they were at critical damage about 2-3 seconds after they blew up. Not sure what was up with that, maybe lots of burst damage while it was above the "critical" threshold, but not even saying they were under attack sure didn't bring a lot of people to defend them. |
[Veteran_Absolute Idiom]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 23:32:00 -
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I brought this up a few hundred thread ago too. There are occasion when the attacking team is destined to lose/win and there is nothing to do but wait get a few kills. There should be some calculation done so that the server realises this and applies an 'overtime' condition such that either side can still do something about it.
For instance, perhaps in the above situation 3 active defending guns merits a webbing effect that slows MCC progress or just plain prevents docking.
Or in other occasions when A/B is in progress of being hacked and the MCC runs out of shield. It wouldn't leave for the sake of 3 more seconds of gun fire reducing the MCC armor to 99% from 100% - it should stay until the hack succeeds or is countered! |
[Veteran_Danfen Stark]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 23:36:00 -
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I guess if/when this happens, you could always try to convince the rest of your team to grab Swarm launchers/get on turrets and all to shoot up at the MCC  I'm sure a nice bit on concentrated fire may change things. Of course, the challenge is getting them to do it  |
[Veteran_Malhak]
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Posted - 2012.06.14 23:52:00 -
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I way to solve this, sorta, is to have the win condition be that the attacking team must have control of at least one objective for their MCC to dock otherwise it will just sit above until one is captured. |
[Veteran_Skytt Syysch]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 00:20:00 -
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Absolute Idiom wrote:For instance, perhaps in the above situation 3 active defending guns merits a webbing effect that slows MCC progress or just plain prevents docking.
Malhak wrote:I way to solve this, sorta, is to have the win condition be that the attacking team must have control of at least one objective for their MCC to dock otherwise it will just sit above until one is captured.
Yeah, I was talking about that with one of my friends. As attacker or defender, I don't understand why the MCC is allowed to dock with 3 guns active, let alone why it would even try. It'd be like trying to get in someone's car as they're punching you in the face.
Danfen Stark wrote:I guess if/when this happens, you could always try to convince the rest of your team to grab Swarm launchers/get on turrets and all to shoot up at the MCC I'm sure a nice bit on concentrated fire may change things. Of course, the challenge is getting them to do it
God, yeah, overcoming "they're taking the thing right next to you why aren't you turning around?!" is hard enough, I can't imagine trying to get random people to do something out of the ordinary |
[Veteran_Card Drunook]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 03:51:00 -
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Malhak wrote:I way to solve this, sorta, is to have the win condition be that the attacking team must have control of at least one objective for their MCC to dock otherwise it will just sit above until one is captured.
I'd like to second this. It kind of grates on me the few times I've been defending, watched the attackers get a good early rush in, and then they sit back and never come close to attacking in the second stage. Having it so that even once the MCC docks the attackers can't win without at least one objective would prevent this and force them to actually attack in the second half. |
[Veteran_wtfbooom]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 16:21:00 -
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What I've noticed is that the missile turrets won't always bee shooting at the MCC and only really starts kicking in once it gets close. I played a game on the defending side where the enemy took over the first area while the MCC still had around 55% shieldhp left. At the end we won despite the enemy always keeping at least one of the final controlpoints in their control, but I spent very much of that time manually manning one of the missile platforms and shooting at the MCC. |
[Veteran_Korrin Palentes]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:31:00 -
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I like the idea of having a WEB be placed on the MCC limiting its movement when all 3 points are being controlled (depending if you are attacking or defending of course).
Also for an MCC to dock with 3 enemy guns firing upon it sounds a bit silly. |
[Veteran_Danfen Stark]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:37:00 -
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Also, just had a thought in terms of how the attackers could play things in a bad situation...
Now, correct me if I'm wrong has I've yet to have a chance at trying them out, but Logistic dropships can remote rep vehicles right? If so, does this apply for the MCC? Because I could envision a scenerio where the MCC is being pretty hammered, but a couple of the attackers could get logisitcs dropships, and hover on the far side of the MCC using it to cover themselves, while keeping it repaired.
Just an idea of the versatility of how battles may play out, as a counter to the 'shoot everything at it' idea. |
[Veteran_usrevenge]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:37:00 -
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maybe there will be webifier turrets that the defending commander can buy and web the MCC making it 30% slower.
and target painters to make i take more damage. |
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[Veteran_Silas Krisolo]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:39:00 -
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Danfen Stark wrote:Also, just had a thought in terms of how the attackers could play things in a bad situation...
Now, correct me if I'm wrong has I've yet to have a chance at trying them out, but Logistic dropships can remote rep vehicles right? If so, does this apply for the MCC? Because I could envision a scenerio where the MCC is being pretty hammered, but a couple of the attackers could get logisitcs dropships, and hover on the far side of the MCC using it to cover themselves, while keeping it repaired.
Just an idea of the versatility of how battles may play out, as a counter to the 'shoot everything at it' idea.
The MCC is outside of the map boundaries by a good margin. I'm not certain you'd be able to get close enough.
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[Veteran_Danfen Stark]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:40:00 -
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Silas Krisolo wrote:Danfen Stark wrote:Also, just had a thought in terms of how the attackers could play things in a bad situation...
Now, correct me if I'm wrong has I've yet to have a chance at trying them out, but Logistic dropships can remote rep vehicles right? If so, does this apply for the MCC? Because I could envision a scenerio where the MCC is being pretty hammered, but a couple of the attackers could get logisitcs dropships, and hover on the far side of the MCC using it to cover themselves, while keeping it repaired.
Just an idea of the versatility of how battles may play out, as a counter to the 'shoot everything at it' idea. The MCC is outside of the map boundaries by a good margin. I'm not certain you'd be able to get close enough.
Even when the battle is on to the third stage, as it is coming in to dock ? |
[Veteran_steadyhand 08 ortis]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 17:48:00 -
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if you get enough people shooting at the MMC in dropships etc you can still pull it off |
[Veteran_Silas Krisolo]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 18:45:00 -
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Danfen Stark wrote:Silas Krisolo wrote:Danfen Stark wrote:Also, just had a thought in terms of how the attackers could play things in a bad situation...
Now, correct me if I'm wrong has I've yet to have a chance at trying them out, but Logistic dropships can remote rep vehicles right? If so, does this apply for the MCC? Because I could envision a scenerio where the MCC is being pretty hammered, but a couple of the attackers could get logisitcs dropships, and hover on the far side of the MCC using it to cover themselves, while keeping it repaired.
Just an idea of the versatility of how battles may play out, as a counter to the 'shoot everything at it' idea. The MCC is outside of the map boundaries by a good margin. I'm not certain you'd be able to get close enough. Even when the battle is on to the third stage, as it is coming in to dock ?
You're absolutely right, my mistake. I was just thinking of the first stage of the battle. |
[Veteran_Ima Leet]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 19:20:00 -
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yes, i'm fairly certain initial A+B destruction quickly results in auto-win. i've been in a game where we lost A+B quick and never lost a single A,B,C and still lost... sucked losing that way lol we held A,B,C like a boss! haha |
[Veteran_Buzzwords]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 19:42:00 -
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meh.. i actually prefer it to (the closest analogue i can think of) battefield 3 rush mode.
where no matter how well or poor you perform in one stage, it has no bearing on the next stage. clearing a stage with 1 ticket left is the same as clearing a stage with 75 tickets left. |
[Veteran_Soven Taliesyn]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 19:53:00 -
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Malhak wrote:I way to solve this, sorta, is to have the win condition be that the attacking team must have control of at least one objective for their MCC to dock otherwise it will just sit above until one is captured.
Maybe a final objective to open docking protocols from the facility. |
[Veteran_Skytt Syysch]
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Posted - 2012.06.15 20:48:00 -
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Buzzwords wrote:meh.. i actually prefer it to (the closest analogue i can think of) battefield 3 rush mode.
where no matter how well or poor you perform in one stage, it has no bearing on the next stage. clearing a stage with 1 ticket left is the same as clearing a stage with 75 tickets left.
I agree with this. However, the way things currently are with this game, the attackers always have a chance to win. Even if they're doing poorly in the first half, they still have the opportunity to win by taking over and holding the last objectives. The defenders don't have that option, since if the attacking team performs well in the first half, they can't come back.
I tried getting on one of the large missile turrets for a couple of games and shooting at the MCC. It was fun, I earned some points for damaging it. One game it was super close and we destroyed it as it was turning to dock. Another game, all of our objectives were taken, but I kept firing at it anyway in a "hey, don't worry guys, I'll keep working on it while you get our objectives back" way. It didn't matter; I don't think I ever saw its health bar move across maybe 50 volleys. The manned turrets seem to do very negligible damage, and probably rightly so as that'd make it unfair if the whole team just blasted away at it with turrets, but it doesn't seem to be much of a tide-turner or a viable option to change things away from the attacking team having the chance to just let the MCC go to dock even though all the turrets are on it at all times.
I'm definitely in favor of the attacking team having to do something to allow it to dock when it reaches the final stopping point, even if it's as simple as turning off one of the turrets. I think having an additional fourth objective pop up that has to be taken over would be an unfair advantage in favor of defending teams. |
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