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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
779
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Posted - 2015.08.17 15:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
The swarm launcher has been my AV weapon of choice since open beta. Myself and many vehicle pilots are not happy with it. I have some ideas.
So. We all know how swarms work alright on tanks. But then we see LAVs getting one-shotted. And dropships, poor dropships, have no means of survival other than seeing how fast they can travel 400 meters in the opposite direction. I've seen some rather complex ways to make swarms "dodgeable". Ideas that would require a lot of time, thought, and a client patch. My idea is to alter the numbers we have available. And better yet, create a purpose for the weapon that was forgotten from the start, the Assault Swarm Launcher.
When the turn radius was reduced to 70 degrees, swarms made a wide curve towards its target instead of constantly following the target's exact position. This was implemented to make swarms a little less "100% hit-rate". Unfortuneately, this had the opposite effect. Even when a dropship quickly swoops behind a building, the swarm would go around the corner and still strike it's target. This is nullifies cover and negates pilot skill. Bad for balance.
My proposal is to grant roles to the two variants. The vanilla is for demolishing tanks, and the Assault is for swatting dropships and chasing LAVs.
Vanilla:
-Reduce travel speed significantly, about a third of what it is now
-Raise lock-on time to 1.8 seconds
-Raise damage to 300/330/360
-Set turn radius back to 90
-Reduce lock-on range to 150 meters
-Keep clip size at 3
-Raise reload speed to 5 seconds
This will make it a slow but heavy-hitting weapon designed to combat the durability of HAVs. With it's extremely slow travel and perfect turn radius, it will not be a viable choice for dropships. Airborne pilots will have plenty of time to utilize structures to block the incoming swarm. But since it hits like a truck, it discourages dropship pilots from hovering in place. They must stay on the move and plan their hit-and-runs more carefully.
Assault:
-Double flight speed
-Reduce lock-on time to 1 second
-Reduce damage to 150/165/180
-Keep turn radius at 70
-Raise lock-on range to 200 meters
-Raise clip size to 5
-Reduce reload speed to 3.5 seconds
-Remove the dual targeting; it's pointless and we all know it
-Reduce fitting cost to the same as the vanilla variant
This is the anti-dropship weapon. Very fast, constant, and inescapable. As a balancing factor it is very weak, and gives a pilot plenty of operating time before needing to pull out. It's pretty much the same deal for LAVs; they can easily avoid the heavy swarms if they stay on the move and position themselves carefully. While the Assault swarms are almost impossible to avoid, they're survivable with the use of active modules.
As an experienced swarmer and retired pilot (1.8), that's my take on it. The exact numbers are up for tweaking, but the concept is there.
Thoughts?
[69.8m SP]
"Sazu is the Swagmaster Logi. I shall not insult the Minmatar around him." -Thal Vadam after revival
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Hector Carson
Till Death Rains
The Empire of New Eden
215
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Posted - 2015.08.18 03:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
That is an OP setup CCP will never do it they are fine as is
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Assault ck.0
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
780
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Posted - 2015.08.18 18:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hector Carson wrote:That is an OP setup CCP will never do it they are fine as is
"OP setup"? Maybe someone could run some numbers for me, but I'm pretty sure I reduced the overall DPS and put the variants into specific niches. Not sure how that's OP.
[70.6m SP]
"Sazu is the Swagmaster Logi. I shall not insult the Minmatar around him." -Thal Vadam after revival
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
852
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Posted - 2015.08.18 19:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
swarms at 1/3 the speed and lock on after almost 2 seconds means tanks can simply vanish before they even get hit and easily out maneuver them, a tank with a fuel injector can easily get up to LAV speeds perhpas not as fast but currently LAV's have enough speed to outrun swarms making them that slow means tanks could also do the same
all while drop ships would still be punished since most pilots don't have the awareness to even see the first volly come at them
especially not if you are in an ADS with first person turned on, two quick volleys timed right would destroy most drop ships other then the most well fitted
your idea for the assault swarms means any decently fit LAV or drop ship will simply shrug all the damge off even without hardeners in most cases, shields have a natural resistance to explosives as the SL is categorized under most pilots that complain are those that do not know how to deal with swarms or fly in incubuses which are naturally weaker to swarms
I only have basic vehicle skills and my vehicle modules are only at ADV yet I can easily take direct hits from a single swarm launcher and still have plenty of time to retreat, sure multiple swarm launchers may be a problem but as long as I don't linger I can survive easily, the biggest threat to a pilot I would say is collision damge you are more likely to die by landing too roughly then you are by AV and lag only makes things worse
I think a better fix would be to introduce the ADV and PROTO variants while making the assault swarm launcher more viable by actually being able to fire multiple volleys at once instead of having each one split up in half and only sending out one volley at a time
I'd also like to see the ADV and PROTO LAV's being introduced
you ideas aren't bad in themselves but the numbers you suggested are way too far off
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
780
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Posted - 2015.08.18 20:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
@Sicerly Yaw
Quote:swarms at 1/3 the speed and lock on after almost 2 seconds means tanks can simply vanish before they even get hit and easily out maneuver them
I forgot to mention that I designed the vanilla swarms around a scenario where tanks are very slow. (As they should be)
Quote:your idea for the assault swarms means any decently fit LAV or drop ship will simply shrug all the damge off
I dunno, taking 600-800 damage every 2ish seconds would add up pretty fast. And even if it is weaksace; the way I see it, a weapon with 100% hit consistency and extreme ease of use shouldn't be earthshakingly powerful.
In my experience of shooting them down, a Python's survivability lies in it's option to instantly pull out and take no more than 3 swarm hits. With the Assault swarms' extreme missile speed, they're unavoidable and inescapable, so they should be weak.
Otherise; in the event of dropships and LAVs being granted tiers, I'll jack up the base damage on my proposed swarms.
[70.6m SP]
"Sazu is the Swagmaster Logi. I shall not insult the Minmatar around him." -Thal Vadam after revival
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
453
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Posted - 2015.08.18 20:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:
I dunno, taking 600-800 damage every 2ish seconds would add up pretty fast. And even if it is weaksace; the way I see it, a weapon with 100% hit consistency and extreme ease of use shouldn't be earthshakingly powerful.
Every 2ish seconds? That's not taking in to account flight time, is it?
EDIT: Shield Hardener would render AssSwarm a non-threat and a Python could probably regen, at the very least tank, through the damage with just 1 Hardener.
Purifier. First Class.
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
175
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Posted - 2015.08.18 20:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
[quote= When the turn radius was reduced to 70 degrees, swarms made a wide curve towards its target instead of constantly following the target's exact position. This was implemented to make swarms a little less "100% hit-rate". Unfortuneately, this had the opposite effect. Even when a dropship quickly swoops behind a building, the swarm would go around the corner and still strike it's target. This is nullifies cover and negates pilot skill. Bad for balance.
[/quote]
Swarms do not go around the corner. If they do, then they were shot from an angle in wich you didnt really turn around or got behind a building right.javascript:if (typeof posting=='undefined'||posting!=true) {posting=true;__doPostBack('forum$ctl00$PostReply','');} |
Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
780
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Every 2ish seconds? That's not taking in to account flight time, is it?
EDIT: Shield Hardener would render AssSwarm a non-threat and a Python could probably regen, at the very least tank, through the damage with just 1 Hardener.
Once it gets going, I'd imagine it would be about 2ish seconds between every swarm. Probably less; I would estimate it takes about 0.4 seconds for all the missile to exit and you can start up another lock-on. Not to mention the increased range, bigger clip, complete assurance of damage... It deals just enough damage to pause even hardened shields as far as I know. Even if the damage output could be laughed at, a dropship is still getting knocked around over and over and cannot aim. Plus it might collide with something with its flight path changing so often.
[70.6m SP]
"Sazu is the Swagmaster Logi. I shall not insult the Minmatar around him." -Thal Vadam after revival
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Scrilllix
0.P.
0
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Posted - 2015.08.19 06:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
I for one think that the swarm launcher changes is a great start. I agree to the changes that about the assault swarm launcher because it differentiates the roles of both the Vanilla and Assault Swarm Launchers. i would like to point out though, that having a reduced lock on time AND reduced travel speed would really negate the effectiveness against even HAV's. Maybe keep the lock on time the same but reduce the travel speed so that the effectiveness against drop ships still stays in play. As for the Assault Swarm Launcher, I think you got it spot on :) |
Omaarion27
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
26
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Posted - 2015.08.19 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:The swarm launcher has been my AV weapon of choice since open beta. Myself and many vehicle pilots are not happy with it. I have some ideas.
efully. While the Assault swarms are almost impossible to avoid, they're survivable with the use of active modules.
As an experienced swarmer and retired pilot (1.8), that's my take on it. The exact numbers are up for tweaking, but the concept is there.
Thoughts?
i have a better suggestion remove swarm launchers, they are stupid and take no skill to use, forge guns and plasma cannons remain
"They hate us because they Anus"
CAL n GAL FTFW
disagree meet me in battle n taste the RAILnPLASMA flavor
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
139
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Posted - 2015.08.21 16:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
what is the deal with these ridiculous mag sizes. 5 volleys? I have said this before, and i'll say is some more. The genius that is rattati ruined the AV vehicle balance with the hotfixes. The dispersion with the large blaster, the over buff with the swarm launchers and the draconian nerf to the ADS and AB. The balance was Ok before. It wasn't possible to kill an ADS with base eHP in 1 mag and at least there was actually a point to trying to escape. Plus a python had enough DPS to actually pose a real threat to AVers.
If the game was reverted to that state I would have no complaints. Still could be better but I would take it over what we have now.
Specialization: Making typo's.
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