DUST Search - It's time to kill off Rattati's love child

All Channels

General Discussions

It's time to kill off Rattati's love child

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 763	Posted - 2015.08.15 05:59:00 - [1] - Quote Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
DeadlyAztec11 8	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:23:00 - [2] - Quote Myofibril Stimulants are not that problematic. Most of them are shield suits that decided to run Myofibril Stimulants instead of Shield Extenders. That makes them easy to take down. Even if they do have a fair amount of health chances are that they are using close to all proto equipment. Also, if they weren't killing you with Myofibril Stimulants then they would be killing you with brick tanking or using stealth. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:29:00 - [3] - Quote Just because they have lower health doesn't necessarily mean they're at a disadvantage in an engagement if they always possess cover and the high ground. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*
howard sanchez Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:30:00 - [4] - Quote Exactly. The best thing we can say is that dudes are killing dudes in a bigger variety of ways (including bouncing bettys) than, well, maybe ever. What's the flavor of the month? Maybe it just seems like the last suit that killed you. DeadlyAztec is right, if it weren't this way it'd be another... And I like the reinforcement of the benefit of high ground. Fight from the high ground! Take that hill! People ask me why I die all the time... ... it's a playstyle, bro! -- Onesimus Tarsus, Vader's-Fist
VAHZZ Vader's-Fist 6	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:31:00 - [5] - Quote Froggers are very easy to take care of, because they usually trade health for air. If you don't kill them, the fall will. Director of Vader's Fist I survived Survivor
Vicious Minotaur 2	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:36:00 - [6] - Quote Jump mods are fun. They have no business being in DUST. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
Sergei Domar Rautaleijona 66	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:43:00 - [7] - Quote I don't see jump mods or high jumps itself as problem. I would still like to see one change to be made to mods. Tap jump = normal jump without any mods Hold jump = charge up higher jump, makes you use more stamina to make higher jump Without any mods, charged jump would not be different from tap jump. This would prevent continuous bouncing, but still keep mobility factor there.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 764	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:45:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Myofibril Stimulants are not that problematic. Most of them are shield suits that decided to run Myofibril Stimulants instead of Shield Extenders. That makes them easy to take down. Even if they do have a fair amount of health chances are that they are using close to all proto equipment. Also, if they weren't killing you with Myofibril Stimulants then they would be killing you with brick tanking or using stealth. I'm not saying they don't have counters, I am saying their promotion of "you must get atop this building to win" is making the game worse ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.15 06:52:00 - [9] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality I loathe myo's in their current form. However I do think that there is some merit to changing them to FLAT bonuses. Nix the upper end "lol I punch for 700-1230 damage" and the insane jumps and instead give myo's something like +50/65/90 melee damage per mod (and rework the skill so it's say 3% per level instead of 10%) and then have the mods add 45/60/75 jump speed per module (NOT percentile). Currently the modules are 15/20/25% jump speed per module WITHOUT a stacking penalty (and jump speeds range from 300ish on a sentinel to 572 on a scout). This gives heavy suits that fit them the initially intended increase in jump height (the numbers are about the same actually) but it essentially also creates a stacking penalty that currently isn't there. It is a nerf to the jumping portion on mediums and lights though (with 2 modules being ~ equivalent to 1 complex currently). It also nixes the upper end punching crap that's going on, with commando's bopping sentinels for more than their health pool. Melee with myo's can be useful, but as a "strategy" it should NOT replace gungame, especially when the strategy is "JUMP N PUNCH". Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.08.15 07:04:00 - [10] - Quote The rooftop game has been around as long as the dropships. I'd suggest making the minor flux strike the size of the major flux and make the major flux strike insanely larger. As much as I love my Captain Falcon Minmando doing 1380 punch damage, being able to jump around like a big dumb cup of fruit takes away from the magic of hitting someone like a truck. Make punch mods. Keep jump mods. Just add a charge mechanic. Make ammo deck mods for dropsuits. Not for grenades though, that'd be sickening. MOAR MODS! Disclaimer: This is coming from a roof camping, jump shot, scrublord. "Blessed is he, who in name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness..."

Leovarian L Lavitz Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 07:38:00 - [11] - Quote Taking the high ground is how matches are won! Myos give another option to the fc tool box to get that high ground Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto Dueling is my specialty
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 08:03:00 - [12] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality Actually it has provided me with an abundance of easy kills. AHMGs and breach ARs are PHENOMENAL for killing jumpers in midair. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
4lbert Wesker TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros 389	Posted - 2015.08.15 09:09:00 - [13] - Quote Wow, how many jumping scrubs are against removing this "feature" ... WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.15 09:20:00 - [14] - Quote I just don't see the problem. They are easily dispatched.
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 505	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:00:00 - [15] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality You're wrong, I think it's even the contrary. On some maps, people constantly get on the damn roofs with lots of AV to prevent enemies to get there using dropships. Jump mods are the only way to reach that roof and kill the campers. I can't count the number of times I climbed on a roof and cleaned it with my minja.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:11:00 - [16] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality With that logic we should kill off Dropships, which are far more problematic than Jump Modules. Jump modules are a tactical advantage as they can break cover and close distances much faster than traditional fittings. Apart from melee damage, they offer nothing (directly) in the way of combat. The alternative, however, is Damage Amplifiers and Shield Modules - which do offer a combat benefit. Considering the initiative to maintain a relatively high TTK while also limiting brick tanking, jump modules are a pleasant addition to the lineup of modules. Further more, while it can be argued that they heighten rooftop gameplay, they also counter it. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
xavier zor Abyss of Universe 2	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:22:00 - [17] - Quote Mass driver jump guys have no gun game. therefore i have no respect for any of them, even if moody was doing it COME BACK MOODY starts crying Zor's double ISK service
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:28:00 - [18] - Quote There is no help. People will defend their crutch. Until then (until CCP takes another look at it) spam jumpy minmando with Agimus. They say it's easy to not get killed by jumpy guys right? Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 11:32:00 - [19] - Quote I wonder why the myth of jump mods means lower health still persist. you can only stack three. no problem for a caldari suit to stack two extenders and armor plates. or the amarr galente jumpers with 700+ armor, or the commando jumpers with nearly 1000 hp. "but I killed one so their balanced" means as much to me as "I killed a gv.0 madrugar therefore armor tanks are balanced." Jumpers do make the game that much worse. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati vote Tesfa for CPM2
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 12:06:00 - [20] - Quote I find the only problem is that in both increases jump AND melee damage. There should be a separate module for both The C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)

Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2015.08.15 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote This is NOT a ground combat game. Didn't you hear? It's the new Quake. MY CPM2 PLATFORM
Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.15 13:44:00 - [22] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: I find the only problem is that in both increases jump AND melee damage. There should be a separate module for both Why? If it gives you the explosiveness to jump why wouldn't it give you explosiveness to punch?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:06:00 - [23] - Quote I'm trying to figure out why so much butthurt. Even when I run assault with heavy plates (screw your ferroscale trash) the jumpy mass drivers and flaylocks are fairly easy to put down. Bear in mind, I don't use the damn things. My myofib skill (hand to hand, right?) Is still floating at maybe 1. I think I can only use militia myos. But I'll be honest. The nerds using them are only moderately annoying. When I'm in a sentinel and they bounce around with mass drivers it's comically sad. When I'm in my gal or am assaults I don't really have any issues popping them. My cal suits I just shoot people at 50-70m and my minmatar fits either kill them before they realize I'm on top of them or I get smeared. Shooting them with any commando just makes me cackle insanely. So when I say I don't understand why so much butthurt, I really am baffled. The only time I find them problematic is when mt framerate drops to like 4-8 FPS. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Mobius Wyvern Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 6	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:19:00 - [24] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Myofibril Stimulants are not that problematic. Most of them are shield suits that decided to run Myofibril Stimulants instead of Shield Extenders. That makes them easy to take down. Even if they do have a fair amount of health chances are that they are using close to all proto equipment. Also, if they weren't killing you with Myofibril Stimulants then they would be killing you with brick tanking or using stealth. The jump acceleration is nuts, but all you have to do is shoot them at the top of their arc when they slow to a halt in mid-air. That won't work on a normal suit, but you can't fit much HP if you want maximum jump potential. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Dewie Cheecham Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 711	Posted - 2015.08.15 14:25:00 - [25] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality Having started to use the 3xComplex Myo's I can say that their jump height is just perfect. It'll allow them to get on top of the large containers, but nothing more. Where they need a bit of a nerf, though, is their stamina usage. Double it, and the perpetually jumping jacks problem is reduced to people with bio exclusively, meaning no armour or shields to speak of.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:15:00 - [26] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality Having started to use the 3xComplex Myo's I can say that their jump height is just perfect. It'll allow them to get on top of the large containers, but nothing more. Where they need a bit of a nerf, though, is their stamina usage. Double it, and the perpetually jumping jacks problem is reduced to people with bio exclusively, meaning no armour or shields to speak of. Ehh... this isn't technically correct and would not really work... Thing is, jumping has a percentage based stamina cost, so it doesn't matter how many myo's you got on you're still going to incur the same penalties. Those stamina costs get higher based on how much you jump in a certain amount of time to make it so that you can only jump a pre-determined amount, regardless of how much stamina you have. It's been tested quite a few times and you can even test it yourself right now. Make a fit, throw on a bunch of complex cardiac regulators on your fit, and jump around. You'll still only be able to jump a few times, despite having 300-500% more stamina. That and I honestly don't see why they should sweeping changes that are counter intuitive. It's like when they added shield recharge delay penalties to shield extenders... Makes absolutely no sense. Jump mods would be made fundamentally worthless if they eat too much stamina and it doesn't make much sense for that to happen anyway. Honestly, I don't see a good argument for nerfing them. People hate them, absolutely, that goes without saying, but there aren't many (if any) clear cut reasons WHY they should be nerfed apart from general gameplay preference. Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment, I guess. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:19:00 - [27] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: . Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment with poor hit detection, I guess. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 442	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:19:00 - [28] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: I find the only problem is that in both increases jump AND melee damage. There should be a separate module for both Why? If it gives you the explosiveness to jump why wouldn't it give you explosiveness to punch? Would make more sense if jump were tied to KinCats, rather than melee, IMO. Purifier. First Class.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:33:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment with poor hit detection, I guess. You're going to experience mechanical complications with any game and that is not a valid excuse to remove jump modules when dropships will still get you on a rooftop. Further more I'd argue that you're more likely to hit a jumper, who has a pre-determined movement path that he CANNOT CHANGE more so than wiggle-strafing scouts and minmatar assaults. When you want to remove all those things from the table then we can talk. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:36:00 - [30] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment with poor hit detection, I guess. You're going to experience mechanical complications with any game and that is not a valid excuse to remove jump modules when dropships will still get you on a rooftop. Further more I'd argue that you're more likely to hit a jumper, who has a pre-determined movement path that he CANNOT CHANGE more so than wiggle-strafing scouts and minmatar assaults. When you want to remove all those things from the table then we can talk. Except most games will fix those mechanical complications, unlike DUST where they become baked in features. But their predictability does make them easier to hit if they aren't using the high ground like they should be. I don't even play infantry so it doesn't matter to me, i just know that since CCP can't code in new animations it looks obnoxious, and weapons like MDs and PLCs further reward less skillful behavior. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*

Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:41:00 - [31] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment with poor hit detection, I guess. You're going to experience mechanical complications with any game and that is not a valid excuse to remove jump modules when dropships will still get you on a rooftop. Further more I'd argue that you're more likely to hit a jumper, who has a pre-determined movement path that he CANNOT CHANGE more so than wiggle-strafing scouts and minmatar assaults. When you want to remove all those things from the table then we can talk. Except most games will fix those mechanical complications, unlike DUST where they become baked in features. But their predictability does make them easier to hit if they aren't using the high ground like they should be. I don't even play infantry so it doesn't matter to me, i just know that since CCP can't code in new animations it looks obnoxious, and weapons like MDs and PLCs further reward less skillful behavior. Neither of which were cripplingly over-powered by their own rights and weren't really a problem, recently, until jump modules became a thing. Which, given the rate of complaints about other weapons, if the use of jump modules is required for those weapons to be over-powered - let alone powerful at all - than I'd say they have a one-up on other weapons which are powerful in their own right, innately. If anything that is just an otherwise unorthodox fitting combination that was made viable by a changing meta. But even still, the jump mods are completely negated indoors, so is it really that they the module+weapon combination is overpowered or a failure to adapt to a changing environment? Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:44:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: so is it really that they the module+weapon combination is overpowered or a failure to adapt to a changing environment? I'm just curious, how exactly does one adapt to fighting against high damage splash weapons that almost constantly are fired from above you? Also, somewhat unrelated, why is "go indoors" a valid argument for fighting jump mods, but not vehicles? I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:34:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: so is it really that they the module+weapon combination is overpowered or a failure to adapt to a changing environment? I'm just curious, how exactly does one adapt to fighting against high damage splash weapons that almost constantly are fired from above you? Also, somewhat unrelated, why is "go indoors" a valid argument for fighting jump mods, but not vehicles? (understandably vehicles can't follow you inside, but I can't imagine a smart jumpy player would choose to chase someone into somewhere they can't jump out of) Kay, so, argument is going all over the place so I'll try to answer as best I can. You can adapt to fighting high damage splash weaponry by closing the distance and fighting in areas where they can't jump, or via higher ground yourself. Mass Drivers and plasma cannons are about pointless when your enemy is above you because they have nothing to hit to make use of the splash damage. So, taking a rooftop yourself or being on a hill gives a tactical advantage. You can close the distance, and force them to use their own splash damage against themselves. You can go indoors where they can't jump. Or you can just shoot them while they're stuck on a floating trajectory that they cannot change. It isn't the responsibility of game designers or the community to tell you how to get that edge, however, so it's largely on you to figure out how you want to counter them. "Go indoors" is a valid argument against jump mods because if they try to jump they'll hit the ceiling. They can't benefit from their jump mods indoors. But you answered your own question in that vehicles can't follow you inside. To extrapolate on whether or not a player who uses jump mods will follow you inside - I use them and I remain cautious whenever following someone inside. I -know- I can't benefit from my height advantage any longer, I know I can't break their cover indoors, but sometimes I have to roll with the punches and just go with it (maybe there's an objective indoors, for instance). I can always fall back on the heightened melee damage though, and I don't use splash damage weaponry on those suits, so that is a plus. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
REDBACK96USMC NORTH K0REA 228	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:39:00 - [34] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Myofibril Stimulants are not that problematic. Most of them are shield suits that decided to run Myofibril Stimulants instead of Shield Extenders. That makes them easy to take down. Even if they do have a fair amount of health chances are that they are using close to all proto equipment. Also, if they weren't killing you with Myofibril Stimulants then they would be killing you with brick tanking or using stealth. I'm not saying they don't have counters, I am saying their promotion of "you must get atop this building to win" is making the game worse The only difference is less Dropships crashing up top to get there.
DUST Fiend 17	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:44:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: so is it really that they the module+weapon combination is overpowered or a failure to adapt to a changing environment? I'm just curious, how exactly does one adapt to fighting against high damage splash weapons that almost constantly are fired from above you? Also, somewhat unrelated, why is "go indoors" a valid argument for fighting jump mods, but not vehicles? (understandably vehicles can't follow you inside, but I can't imagine a smart jumpy player would choose to chase someone into somewhere they can't jump out of) Kay, so, argument is going all over the place so I'll try to answer as best I can. You can adapt to fighting high damage splash weaponry by closing the distance and fighting in areas where they can't jump, or via higher ground yourself. Mass Drivers and plasma cannons are about pointless when your enemy is above you because they have nothing to hit to make use of the splash damage. So, taking a rooftop yourself or being on a hill gives a tactical advantage. You can close the distance, and force them to use their own splash damage against themselves. You can go indoors where they can't jump. Or you can just shoot them while they're stuck on a floating trajectory that they cannot change. It isn't the responsibility of game designers or the community to tell you how to get that edge, however, so it's largely on you to figure out how you want to counter them. "Go indoors" is a valid argument against jump mods because if they try to jump they'll hit the ceiling. They can't benefit from their jump mods indoors. But you answered your own question in that vehicles can't follow you inside. To extrapolate on whether or not a player who uses jump mods will follow you inside - I use them and I remain cautious whenever following someone inside. I -know- I can't benefit from my height advantage any longer, I know I can't break their cover indoors, but sometimes I have to roll with the punches and just go with it (maybe there's an objective indoors, for instance). I can always fall back on the heightened melee damage though, and I don't use splash damage weaponry on those suits, so that is a plus. But in order to close the distance with jumpers you often have to be a jumper yourself. Go indoors is an equally valid argument vs vehicles because you either force them to disengage, or to become stationary waiting for you to come out, which makes them as good as dead if you aren't the only AV player. But, everyone wants to run straight at vehicles and destroy them rambo style. I am a beautiful space manatee, flying through the sky with the greatest of ease Swarms *everywhere. WoD 514*
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 16:57:00 - [36] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: so is it really that they the module+weapon combination is overpowered or a failure to adapt to a changing environment? I'm just curious, how exactly does one adapt to fighting against high damage splash weapons that almost constantly are fired from above you? Also, somewhat unrelated, why is "go indoors" a valid argument for fighting jump mods, but not vehicles? (understandably vehicles can't follow you inside, but I can't imagine a smart jumpy player would choose to chase someone into somewhere they can't jump out of) Kay, so, argument is going all over the place so I'll try to answer as best I can. You can adapt to fighting high damage splash weaponry by closing the distance and fighting in areas where they can't jump, or via higher ground yourself. Mass Drivers and plasma cannons are about pointless when your enemy is above you because they have nothing to hit to make use of the splash damage. So, taking a rooftop yourself or being on a hill gives a tactical advantage. You can close the distance, and force them to use their own splash damage against themselves. You can go indoors where they can't jump. Or you can just shoot them while they're stuck on a floating trajectory that they cannot change. It isn't the responsibility of game designers or the community to tell you how to get that edge, however, so it's largely on you to figure out how you want to counter them. "Go indoors" is a valid argument against jump mods because if they try to jump they'll hit the ceiling. They can't benefit from their jump mods indoors. But you answered your own question in that vehicles can't follow you inside. To extrapolate on whether or not a player who uses jump mods will follow you inside - I use them and I remain cautious whenever following someone inside. I -know- I can't benefit from my height advantage any longer, I know I can't break their cover indoors, but sometimes I have to roll with the punches and just go with it (maybe there's an objective indoors, for instance). I can always fall back on the heightened melee damage though, and I don't use splash damage weaponry on those suits, so that is a plus. But in order to close the distance with jumpers you often have to be a jumper yourself. Go indoors is an equally valid argument vs vehicles because you either force them to disengage, or to become stationary waiting for you to come out, which makes them as good as dead if you aren't the only AV player. But, everyone wants to run straight at vehicles and destroy them rambo style. Lol, there are far too many variables to account for, honestly. All I know is what works and I've never had a problem with jumpers, even when they're using mass drivers and plasma cannons. I'd say get better gun game but honestly anyone can just pick up a bolt pistol and their qualms with jumpers is effectively over x3 Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 361	Posted - 2015.08.15 19:21:00 - [37] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality Having started to use the 3xComplex Myo's I can say that their jump height is just perfect. It'll allow them to get on top of the large containers, but nothing more. Where they need a bit of a nerf, though, is their stamina usage. Double it, and the perpetually jumping jacks problem is reduced to people with bio exclusively, meaning no armour or shields to speak of. Ehh... this isn't technically correct and would not really work... Thing is, jumping has a percentage based stamina cost, so it doesn't matter how many myo's you got on you're still going to incur the same penalties. Those stamina costs get higher based on how much you jump in a certain amount of time to make it so that you can only jump a pre-determined amount, regardless of how much stamina you have. It's been tested quite a few times and you can even test it yourself right now. Make a fit, throw on a bunch of complex cardiac regulators on your fit, and jump around. You'll still only be able to jump a few times, despite having 300-500% more stamina. That and I honestly don't see why they should sweeping changes that are counter intuitive. It's like when they added shield recharge delay penalties to shield extenders... Makes absolutely no sense. Jump mods would be made fundamentally worthless if they eat too much stamina and it doesn't make much sense for that to happen anyway. Honestly, I don't see a good argument for nerfing them. People hate them, absolutely, that goes without saying, but there aren't many (if any) clear cut reasons WHY they should be nerfed apart from general gameplay preference. Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment, I guess. Well allot of the hate comes from a few specific things. 1. Single shot weapon or burst users who are so used to dance dance revolution cant shoot up lolz. Automatic weapons have a waaayyy easier time shooting jumpers outta air. 2. Its their most repeated combination mass driver flaylock plasma high dmg weapons that before their drawback for being able to do so much dmg was that they were circumstantial weapons that needed high ground myos remove that drawback which I can understand but im 50/50 on balancing those weapons to match myos the way they r now. 3.melee dmg now this one certain people complain about now because myos are in more use but theyve always done high dmg n could one shot allot of suits. Before though u needed to stack at least 4 or 5 which is impractical. melee kills is low compared to jump kills or any other for that matter. Its not easy does require skill n people who hp stack n have a high alpha dmg weapon think they can charge a corner cuz guess what expect to win cuz they r trying to abuse fotm. Yeaaaa u should have to think twice charging in. 4. Minjas -_- now this one I can agree with hate on people defending the ability to melee n be able to cloak right back up right away is no different then y cloaks were nerfed to begin with because of still being cloaked while shotgunning. Its a stealth tool not an assault cloak. I honestly dont think u should be able to melee while cloak equipped. I use myos but honestly it costing more stamina to jump for each myo doesnt sound unreasonable. Jumping without myos really doesnt have allot of purpose besides dodging a bit. so considering the jump height it costing more stamina seems honestly fair not to mention complex myos dont cost much cpu or pg compared to other modules FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:15:00 - [38] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Dewie Cheecham wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: Jump mods have not been beneficial to the game and have instead reinforced the 'if you can get on top of a rooftop you can close out the game' mentality Having started to use the 3xComplex Myo's I can say that their jump height is just perfect. It'll allow them to get on top of the large containers, but nothing more. Where they need a bit of a nerf, though, is their stamina usage. Double it, and the perpetually jumping jacks problem is reduced to people with bio exclusively, meaning no armour or shields to speak of. Ehh... this isn't technically correct and would not really work... Thing is, jumping has a percentage based stamina cost, so it doesn't matter how many myo's you got on you're still going to incur the same penalties. Those stamina costs get higher based on how much you jump in a certain amount of time to make it so that you can only jump a pre-determined amount, regardless of how much stamina you have. It's been tested quite a few times and you can even test it yourself right now. Make a fit, throw on a bunch of complex cardiac regulators on your fit, and jump around. You'll still only be able to jump a few times, despite having 300-500% more stamina. That and I honestly don't see why they should sweeping changes that are counter intuitive. It's like when they added shield recharge delay penalties to shield extenders... Makes absolutely no sense. Jump mods would be made fundamentally worthless if they eat too much stamina and it doesn't make much sense for that to happen anyway. Honestly, I don't see a good argument for nerfing them. People hate them, absolutely, that goes without saying, but there aren't many (if any) clear cut reasons WHY they should be nerfed apart from general gameplay preference. Some people just don't like having to engage their enemy in a 3D environment, I guess. Well allot of the hate comes from a few specific things. 1. Single shot weapon or burst users who are so used to dance dance revolution cant shoot up lolz. Automatic weapons have a waaayyy easier time shooting jumpers outta air. 2. Its their most repeated combination mass driver flaylock plasma high dmg weapons that before their drawback for being able to do so much dmg was that they were circumstantial weapons that needed high ground myos remove that drawback which I can understand but im 50/50 on balancing those weapons to match myos the way they r now. 3.melee dmg now this one certain people complain about now because myos are in more use but theyve always done high dmg n could one shot allot of suits. Before though u needed to stack at least 4 or 5 which is impractical. melee kills is low compared to jump kills or any other for that matter. Its not easy does require skill n people who hp stack n have a high alpha dmg weapon think they can charge a corner cuz guess what expect to win cuz they r trying to abuse fotm. Yeaaaa u should have to think twice charging in. 4. Minjas -_- now this one I can agree with hate on people defending the ability to melee n be able to cloak right back up right away is no different then y cloaks were nerfed to begin with because of still being cloaked while shotgunning. Its a stealth tool not an assault cloak. I honestly dont think u should be able to melee while cloak equipped. I use myos but honestly it costing more stamina to jump for each myo doesnt sound unreasonable. Jumping without myos really doesnt have allot of purpose besides dodging a bit. so considering the jump height it costing more stamina seems honestly fair not to mention complex myos dont cost much cpu or pg compared to other modules Lol, so first it was bunny hopping (hence the stamina cost being percentage based that gets higher for subsequent jumps) and now it's jumping at all. It's getting kinda ridiculous. Like, I'm sorry that myos are a convenient counter to people who refuse to consider a battlefield as anything other than a two-dimensional plane, but let's be real with ourselves here. Has anyone actually stopped and looked at how much stamina cost is -already there-? If the stamina costs are any higher you're pretty much making it so that a single jump means you are completely unable to sprint. Like, barring the obvious in that you'd be limited to maybe one or two jumps before having to rest... I dunno, it seems like it's way too harsh. Jumping in and of itself has the same stamina cost across the board and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't stack cardiac regulators and suddenly be able to jump more often. You can't recovery stamina while in mid-air. There is a delay before you begin to recover stamina whenever you hit the ground, and just as well (and probably the most damning argument against this) is that your ability to melee -at all- is tied to stamina as well.... I do think it is unreasonable, honestly. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 12	Posted - 2015.08.15 20:35:00 - [39] - Quote Whether or not bunny-hopping represents a balance issue is debatable, but CardRegs do in-fact permit a substantial increase the number of back-to-back jumps a myofib-assisted merc can execute. Any assertion or suggestion to the contrary -- looking you at you, Aeon -- is incorrect. Please stop making things up, Aeon. If bunny-hopping is ruled to be balance issue, I'd propose the following: A myofibril-assisted jump consumes 25% stamina pool. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

I am a minotaur.