DUST Search - Why can't you punch vehicles?

Joel II X wrote:

Arguing that fibs are OP is like saying knives are OP, but without jump height in the mix. Why didn't you complain about them before the jump buff? They still have and have had the same values since. Only difference now is that they increase jump height.

I'll be quite once you stop giving anecdotes, and give me concrete numbers, evidence, and all that jazz. Don't just spew that max amount of damage possible, either without mentioning the range as well as drawbacks to using them. Scout's honor.

As a side note, I know they are damage mods with two purposes. I know you don't sacrifice much to fit the, I just don't know what makes them as OP as you make them out to be. They make a warrior excel at close quarters, yet they don't make them very useful for long ranges other than being able to jump obstacles to get away effectively in some cases.

In case you've missed it, though, the point of my posts is not only for my own amusement, but to tell you that if you want to seriously debate on a matter, you should do so with information, regardless of whether you have already done so or not. Asking me to do so won't really make matters turn to your favor.

GG o7


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MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.09 23:31:00 - [1] - Quote Pierced Daddy wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Why can't you? Here's why. I got one hit punched today. That commando dod 1450 damage to me. That's why. Awwwwww poor baby. Max power for one punch from any Commando is 1230. Nice try though champ "its ONLY enough to 1shot a sentinel - quit being a baby!" "I can ONLY leap over cover and attack in all sorts of unconventional manners!" Myo's are unbalanced and need nerfing. Their jump and melee increases need to be flat values, this 412.51% increased melee damage and god knows what (because no stacking penalty and nonlinear translation of jump speed to actual height HURRRRR) increased jump values are unbalanced. I have no issue with 400ish melee damage, but anything higher than 500 breaks the game. "Well what about nova knives!" they take up a sidearm slot and don't give you any increased movement attributes. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 04:13:00 - [2] - Quote Pierced Daddy wrote: Your justification that knives take up 1 slot is bs. Too reach 1230 punch power takes 3 slots. Not to mention your are forfeiting hp or dmg mods for the punch power. If myo's allow you to oneshot a sentinel they unequivocally ARE damage mods. You are doing more damage than you were before = damage mod. They are damage mods that ALSO provide an unbelievable advantage in terms of how you move around a map. If you're armor tanking your suit low cpu & moderate pg use, which compliments well with myo's low pg use and moderate cpu use (No, its not high, 90 CPU for a complex energizer is high) you're not 'making' a trade of hp. "Wow I'm totally trading all those HP mods that I couldn't fit because they cost 10+ powergrid per one". Knives = No non-melee sidearm, no movement advantages, high damage at short range. Myos = "no damage mods" (fallacy, myo's are damage mods), "No hp mods" (fallacy, people who run myo's armor tank their suits), incredible increases in variety of movement, the ability to oneshot people at close range, the ability to strafe straight upwards via a button press. Myo's are a gamebreaking crutch for bad players. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 04:30:00 - [3] - Quote Still working hard on that ban from the forums I see. "Lol ** u" isn't an argument that disproves anything I've said. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Mina Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 04:40:00 - [4] - Quote Pierced Daddy wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Still working hard on that ban from the forums I see. "Lol ** u" isn't an argument that disproves anything I've said. You are so adorable Tina. Do you really think a ban is going to hurt ? It's an alt..that's what they are for. Gg Tina Actually, yeah, I'm pretty sure it will hurt you, because you'll be forced to concede the argument. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 05:09:00 - [5] - Quote Pierced Daddy wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Pierced Daddy wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Still working hard on that ban from the forums I see. "Lol ** u" isn't an argument that disproves anything I've said. You are so adorable Tina. Do you really think a ban is going to hurt ? It's an alt..that's what they are for. Gg Tina Actually, yeah, I'm pretty sure it will hurt you, because you'll be forced to concede the argument. Lol there you go being adorable again baby gurl. There is no argument that I am trying to win therefore nothing to concede to. If it helps boost your low self esteem sweetie..I can concede and we can say you won. Thank god Tina gives the best blow j..pops. I like watermelon baby. I'd do anything for my gurl Tina Tina People might actually believe you if you weren't busy trying to abuse me out of the argument. Cause, y'know that is what you are attempting to do with the namecalling, slurring and that wonderful bit of gender targeted sexual harassment. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 18:11:00 - [6] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Myo's are a gamebreaking crutch for bad players. If it's such a game-breaking crutch, then how come it's use isn't more rampant? You're making the presumption that it isn't rampant when it's in fact the 6th most purchased module in the game - and would be higher if it weren't hardcapped. It's tied with armor repairers, it has 1/3rd the purchase rate of shield extenders and it has 1/5th the purchase rate of king armor plate. You can go into any match and see 1-8 people per side running myo stacked fits. Joel II X wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Myo's are a gamebreaking crutch for bad players. And that's where you became an ass. Actually getting a hit on someone is pretty difficult especially with hit detection. What are the downsides to failing to hit? Oh right, there aren't any because if you fail to hit you press the x button and **ing blast off to adventure over your opponents head faster than it is possible to track you with a weapon. So if you hit you kill your opponent instantly, if you fail to hit you press a SINGLE button and get to reset the engagement because your up effectively never happened. You do not have to commit or risk in an engagement at all. Scouts that aren't myo stacked at least have to stay on the same plane AND they have low hitpoints - failing to hit with knives on an opponent that's aware is a death sentence. Whats your excuse mr myocrutch? Wheres your drawback (and don't repeat the same tired fallacies - they've been disproven). Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: Why can you get shot in the head by a big sniper riffle 3-4 times and still not die? That's not very realistic, your brains should be mush inside that armor. You get to survive it because HP. Weapons don't have penetration values, because automatic weaponry having a 10-35% chance to outright kill an opponent regardless of HP isn't very fun - a rail rifle that was blowing holes through 25mm ceramic / metal composite like the amarr sentinel uses would put greater than fist sized holes in the armor (which would be pushed into the wound). Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 19:05:00 - [7] - Quote Supernus Gigas wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Supernus Gigas wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: Myo's are a gamebreaking crutch for bad players. If it's such a game-breaking crutch, then how come it's use isn't more rampant? You can go into any match and see 1-8 people per side running myo stacked fits. A range of 1-8 could apply to basically any weapon. The only time I've ever seen anywhere near half a team running myostim fits was like the first two weeks the jump height increase was introduced. And even then, for most it was for the jump height not the melee damage. Then everyone realised that, while jumping was fun, stacking HP and Damage mods is still the best thing for general combat. Have you ever even ran melee before? If it's such a god-mode playstyle, go run melee for a few matches and post your results. See how easy it really is. So you're dissembling then "well your numbers are imprecise and my personal assertion is that you don't see them THAT often and blah blah blah I'm going to make excuses so I don't have to debate the central points of your argument". Joel II X wrote: First, I don't use fibs. Second, don't throw the word fallacy like you know what you're talking about. You, yourself, pull off quite a few. Third, while your tears on the fibs are delicious, they don't belong in a serious argument. Ah so rather than finding where I'm mistaken and prove me wrong you'd rather just call names eh? I'm amused that you bring up the "reals > feels" line of debate, because your line of argument is basically "my feels = reals > your feels". Diminishing my point to "well you're just being emotional about it" is worthy of ridicule; Yes I am passionate in my dislike of myofibs, I am passionate because they are disgustingly unbalanced in their current state (I have proposed flat values for them which smooths progression for all suits, nixes the unbalanced upper level and allows people to get the initially proposed jump height at lower levels). If I followed your line of argument and reasoning I'd act like speaker and call you a **ing moronic scrub who doesn't deserve to talk whenever you do something like complain about tanks, rather than listen to whatever points you might raise and dispute your arguments based on their accuracy and merit alone. Cutting the bullshit: Myo's are damage mods, People aren't making 'trades' to fit them, they provide unbelievable increases of movement and overwhelmingly low risk high reward patterns of play. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.08.10 23:54:00 - [8] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Arguing that fibs are OP is like saying knives are OP, but without jump height in the mix. Why didn't you complain about them before the jump buff? They still have and have had the same values since. Only difference now is that they increase jump height. I'll be quite once you stop giving anecdotes, and give me concrete numbers, evidence, and all that jazz. Don't just spew that max amount of damage possible, either without mentioning the range as well as drawbacks to using them. Scout's honor. As a side note, I know they are damage mods with two purposes. I know you don't sacrifice much to fit the, I just don't know what makes them as OP as you make them out to be. They make a warrior excel at close quarters, yet they don't make them very useful for long ranges other than being able to jump obstacles to get away effectively in some cases. In case you've missed it, though, the point of my posts is not only for my own amusement, but to tell you that if you want to seriously debate on a matter, you should do so with information, regardless of whether you have already done so or not. Asking me to do so won't really make matters turn to your favor. GG o7 Knives are balanced they do one thing extremely well at close range only and cannot be selected alongside other options. Myo's do multiple things extremely well while still allowing plenty of other options, you cant just knock off a portion of the whole to present your case. Myo's were unobjectively bad before the jump buff - they took too many slots to do something poorly, but even then they were subject to being horribly unbalanced because the difference in tiers and the skills bonus is too great - no one cared because no one used them (in comparison to the much better options available). It may be hard to believe but a thing can be both underpowered yet unbalanced at the same time, unbalanced is not a synonym for 'overpowered'. Myo also don't have the same values that they did back then, their damage got buffed when they got hardcapped to three (this is an undocumented change - but I can quite clearly remember romulus hex and many others losing their butts over it because his melee damage went up). Furthermore commandos never had the high slots to allow for myo stacked fits and now they do this causes a paradigm shift because it can result in changing how things need to be balanced! In regard to numbers, do you mean things like purchase rates that I've referenced (myo's are the 6th most purchased module in the game, tied with armor repairers?). Or do you want something that doesn't exist like some sort of number that empirically details how myo's are unfair, because that sort of thing as said doesn't exist. What can be done with the numbers that everyone already has is DEBATE THEM ("is the ability to consistently onehit kill things overpowered? even if it has many other advantages and negligible disadvantages?") They don't make a 'warrior' excel at close quarters they make him overbearing because of the sneer number of advantages provided. Hell in the match that I JUST got out of I saw a myo stacked tiger scout who screwed up his approach on someone with a shotgun. Guess what happened when the guy started shooting at the scout? The scout jumped straight up and away from him, then bounced behind some cover and reset the engagement that were it not for myo's he would have lost. Should I end my post with some condescending moralization like you did? Something like, oh if you want to discuss things in good faith I'd have been happy to bring information - but it came across more like you wanted to act like an idiot on the forums. I don't have to waste my time disproving assertions, assertions require only the same amount of evidence provided alongside them to be disregarded. "well meanie! you didn't provide evidence for the things you asserted" - let us refer to the heirarchy of arguments and the rational discussion flowchart (not this debate one) I've worked off of counterarguments largely or pointed out refusal to address points made. So looping back to the point I raised several posts ago. What are the meaningful downsides to failing to hit with a myo stacked suit when you can just jump out of the way and try again? Why are the 'drawbacks' to myo stacking so negligible / non-existent. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.