DUST Search - concerning the BP and head shots

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio.

Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken".

Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact.

Echo 1991 wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

The punchy fit comments are laughable.

What happens today when you stack myofibs and skullpunch someone is no different than what happened when chrome released and you did the same.

It took two years for the community to realize that a heavy (especially commando) racks myofibs they become chuck norris, jacky chan and bruce lee condensed into glorious murder karate.

Bravo.

It took myos buffing jumping for you all to realize melee wasn't just for minscouts.

its still really stupid though.

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but explain why, don't just say "it's stupid". I could say that Shotguns only have a 12m optimal range is stupid but that doesn't offer it any credence.

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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 753	Posted - 2015.08.04 02:47:00 - [1] - Quote one major attribute as to why the BP is believed to be OP is due to its hardy head shot multiplier, this along with the seemingly magnetic bullets that supposedly make it easier to get head shots while not aimed down sights makes it hated among many while watching a video of someone using an officer BP in close range (shotgun range) I noticed a few things, first I would like to mention that at this range you aren't likely to miss any shots unless you are way off the first thing i noticed was that the way people react to a BP seems to be the main problem, many people do not know how to deal with it and simply back away or strafe to one side the second thing I noticed was that 90% of the shots more or less made contact with the body not the head (some people claim to aim at x body part and still get head shots this proves that false) the third thing came from a small part of the clip that had two back to back head shots, in the clip the player seems to be aiming near the upper torso while part of the cross hair is on the head but not entirely, now I want everyone to consider one thing that is not unique to the BP but in fact is shared with all rail weaponry, that being the kick, while ADS it doesn't seem to affect the weapon in any way but in this clip I noticed that if the cross hairs were to follow the BP while it kicked (not while ADS) then it would line up almost perfectly with the head, meaning shots at close range aimed at the chest or ranged shots aimed at center mass would more then likely line up closer to the head rather then anywhere else, this theory also makes it possible for an absurdly long range (close to the guns optimal or possibly further) shot while not aimed down sights being aimed at someones lower body could possibly if lucky be a head shot I have not tested this theory as of yet but I have tested the kick while aimed down sights, it doesn't seem to make a difference while aimed down sights as the bullet seems to land where you aim it perhaps not exactly centered as I have aimed at up links lined up the shot (dot turns orange when on target) and seem to have missed until a slight adjustment, but as for the kick while not scoped testing this would require gathering shot groupings which would take time to do for a good analysis, I encourage those that would like a nerf to the BP to look into this so it may be fixed or at least more well understood to deal with and understand what is really going on I may be completely off and If I am then it is reasonable to believe that the weapon is broken at least while not scoped in, I have seen many videos of people claiming that the AA is too strong but most of those videos had been edited seemingly to make it "easier" to see the "magic" bullets, not until now had I seen a reasonable video simply showcasing an officer weapon without making any claims and unaltered video of good quality that I could toughly analyze frame by frame to see whats going on, I will be putting 3 million on the line to whoever can confirm my theory with clear video evidence or trough any other means that clearly proves it (shot groupings of multiple shots in a controlled environment, picture or video evidence) and to anyone who can disprove it and make a more sound assumption while also giving further clear proof will receive 1 mill because I don't care much for being wrong and I'm pretty sure I'm right I will make it clear that any altered evidence will be under close scrutiny, clear unedited evidence is preferred I will accept diagrams or overlaying pictures for things such as the shot groupings click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 04:29:00 - [2] - Quote Don't forget their made out of voodoo steel, by dark scorcerer magicians that trained under the seventh moon of the pagan religion, and those "headshot kills" are actually that lucky kitty that waves at you, killing you instantaneously .. You're dying instantaneously by a lucky kitties that wave at you n++pâçGòÉS+ÇShields, the silent killer.n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
lowdevil Savage Bullet RUST415 88	Posted - 2015.08.04 04:47:00 - [3] - Quote That's a whole lot of text to say bolt pistols do require skill, but every weapon gets a lucky shot do to the aim assist program. Remove aim assist from the game completely and lets see who's boss. Those golden eye macros won't work anymore for the cheaters and the silly strafe fire ammo wasters will be crying to momma. I used the bolt pistol for the sidearm challenge 12hrs a day for a week and found that there is more hits if you drag the site across the target while charging, the same works for small rail turrets. thanks aim assist for making this an arcade shooter is it hate? or just strong dislike
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 753	Posted - 2015.08.04 10:30:00 - [4] - Quote lowdevil wrote: That's a whole lot of text to say bolt pistols do require skill, but every weapon gets a lucky shot do to the aim assist program. Remove aim assist from the game completely and lets see who's boss. Those golden eye macros won't work anymore for the cheaters and the silly strafe fire ammo wasters will be crying to momma. I used the bolt pistol for the sidearm challenge 12hrs a day for a week and found that there is more hits if you drag the site across the target while charging, the same works for small rail turrets. thanks aim assist for making this an arcade shooter im not saying they require any skill due to AA they hardly do and I agree that the AA should be removed entirely what I was trying to say is that those magic head shots might not be so much magic as they are lucky click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 10:57:00 - [5] - Quote lowdevil wrote: That's a whole lot of text to say bolt pistols do require skill, but every weapon gets a lucky shot do to the aim assist program. Remove aim assist from the game completely and lets see who's boss. Those golden eye macros won't work anymore for the cheaters and the silly strafe fire ammo wasters will be crying to momma. I used the bolt pistol for the sidearm challenge 12hrs a day for a week and found that there is more hits if you drag the site across the target while charging, the same works for small rail turrets. thanks aim assist for making this an arcade shooter lmao because AA is what makes this game an arcade shooter. not the jumpy, punchy fits and OHK weapons. glad that mystery was sorted out for all of dust
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:14:00 - [6] - Quote glad somebody has gone in depth with this analysis. it's true though the bolt pistol has some strange aim assist, a gun which does so much damage shouldn't have such strong magnetism, you BARELY miss with the bolt pistol.
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:24:00 - [7] - Quote If anything this game should reward more head shot marksmanship than body shooting. It would define people that have gun game and the accuracy to do so. It simply a mechanic that can not be abused since the head shot multiplier will the same for everyone. Anyone can be good at something if you dedicate and apply yourself. Strafing sadly was one of those things that was badly misinterpreted as a game breaking mechanic while it is not if done correctly like Rfom and mag.
Otrera Goddess Nos Nothi 457	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:40:00 - [8] - Quote To long, did not read. Meh.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:58:00 - [9] - Quote The punchy fit comments are laughable. What happens today when you stack myofibs and skullpunch someone is no different than what happened when chrome released and you did the same. It took two years for the community to realize that a heavy (especially commando) racks myofibs they become chuck norris, jacky chan and bruce lee condensed into glorious murder karate. Bravo. It took myos buffing jumping for you all to realize melee wasn't just for minscouts. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 920	Posted - 2015.08.04 12:08:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The punchy fit comments are laughable. What happens today when you stack myofibs and skullpunch someone is no different than what happened when chrome released and you did the same. It took two years for the community to realize that a heavy (especially commando) racks myofibs they become chuck norris, jacky chan and bruce lee condensed into glorious murder karate. Bravo. It took myos buffing jumping for you all to realize melee wasn't just for minscouts. its still really stupid though. Wanna play eve?

nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 341	Posted - 2015.08.04 13:18:00 - [11] - Quote Thats like saying mouse and keyboard should be removed as well due to easily being able to strafe and shoot. Easier to forge gun and snipe as well. Aa is an assist but ive had it throw off aim entirely when multiple targets are close together so it has its drawbacks only issue at all (like almost every weapon in the game) its profile dmg is incorrect it does a bit to much shield dmg but armor its meant to but the same can be said about allot of other weapons but a while back there was a transaction list of most bought weapons smg was highest so its not like everyones using this weapon n even if they did not everyone has skill to use it which is why u dont see everyone using it I see flaylock more than bolt pistol smg as well FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Koch Rosenzweig S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 466	Posted - 2015.08.04 13:38:00 - [12] - Quote The BP is fine. *Slap in your biotic ass.*
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 13:48:00 - [13] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. I agree with you, but what we can learn from it is a game changer, if the problem is AA and not a unique trait to the BP then that means there is something wrong with all weapons that use AA and it should be fixed it is unfair to anyone that gets killed due to bullets flying trough walls or registering when they shouldn't not only with the BP but every other weapon that uses AA click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Koch Rosenzweig S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 466	Posted - 2015.08.04 13:50:00 - [14] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. I agree with you, but what we can learn from it is a game changer, if the problem is AA and not a unique trait to the BP then that means there is something wrong with all weapons that use AA and it should be fixed it is unfair to anyone that gets killed due to bullets flying trough walls or registering when they shouldn't not only with the BP but every other weapon that uses AA I know there are some curve long shots but, meh still fine 360-¦ no scope 60 meters headshot, damm sounds awesome *Slap in your biotic ass.*
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 13:53:00 - [15] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. I agree with you, but what we can learn from it is a game changer, if the problem is AA and not a unique trait to the BP then that means there is something wrong with all weapons that use AA and it should be fixed it is unfair to anyone that gets killed due to bullets flying trough walls or registering when they shouldn't not only with the BP but every other weapon that uses AA I know there are some curve long shots but, meh still fine 360 no scope 60 meters headshot, damm sounds awesome if more people used the Ion Pistol or other weapons like it itd be more evident that the BP isn't the only one capable of magic head shots same can be said for scrambler rifles click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:09:00 - [16] - Quote Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio. Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken". Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact. Echo 1991 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The punchy fit comments are laughable. What happens today when you stack myofibs and skullpunch someone is no different than what happened when chrome released and you did the same. It took two years for the community to realize that a heavy (especially commando) racks myofibs they become chuck norris, jacky chan and bruce lee condensed into glorious murder karate. Bravo. It took myos buffing jumping for you all to realize melee wasn't just for minscouts. its still really stupid though. Not that it has anything to do with this thread but explain why, don't just say "it's stupid". I could say that Shotguns only have a 12m optimal range is stupid but that doesn't offer it any credence. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:10:00 - [17] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: if more people used the Ion Pistol or other weapons like it itd be more evident that the BP isn't the only one capable of magic head shots same can be said for scrambler rifles If the Ion Pistol performed as well as the BP, more people would use them. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:13:00 - [18] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. Give it a slight range nerf, and I can live with it...
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:16:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio. Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken". Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact. if it was anyone other then you making those claims I might have reason to believe them, but as far as this debate has been going on you have stuck with the same evidence that does not clearly portray the issue I have issued challenges to you to prove your claims once and for all but you have yet to accept any of them click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:19:00 - [20] - Quote Cesar Geronimo wrote: Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. Give it a slight range nerf, and I can live with it... range nerf? its optimal isn't that great for a pistol it seems fine, but I would not be against it, however I would rather remove AA and change the way it hip fires to make it more of a marksman's pistol, sorta how the ScP works click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's

Koch Rosenzweig S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 470	Posted - 2015.08.04 14:22:00 - [21] - Quote Cesar Geronimo wrote: Koch Rosenzweig wrote: The BP is fine. Give it a slight range nerf, and I can live with it... Nah, you need it to keep down those campers with a HEADSHOT FKIN *** CAMPER DUMBASS Slap in your biotic ass.**
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:09:00 - [22] - Quote At this point, does it make you believe CCP will ever touch it? It takes them ages to do anything (lol small dev team). And as far as I know, they believe in numbers and data more than anything else and I can't argue with that. It's basically how they balance. If x is used more than z, y...v then it's wrong. If bolt is used less than other sidearms .. bla bla, you get it? Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 15:10:00 - [23] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: At this point, does it make you believe CCP will ever touch it? It takes them ages to do anything (lol small dev team). And as far as I know, they believe in numbers and data more than anything else and I can't argue with that. It's basically how they balance. If x is used more than z, y...v then it's wrong. If bolt is used less than other sidearms .. bla bla, you get it? yeah thats the problem and I am an advocate to try to fix that click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 921	Posted - 2015.08.04 18:22:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio. Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken". Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact. Echo 1991 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The punchy fit comments are laughable. What happens today when you stack myofibs and skullpunch someone is no different than what happened when chrome released and you did the same. It took two years for the community to realize that a heavy (especially commando) racks myofibs they become chuck norris, jacky chan and bruce lee condensed into glorious murder karate. Bravo. It took myos buffing jumping for you all to realize melee wasn't just for minscouts. its still really stupid though. Not that it has anything to do with this thread but explain why, don't just say "it's stupid". I could say that Shotguns only have a 12m optimal range is stupid but that doesn't offer it any credence. I know, i just cant put it into words. Wanna play eve?
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA Smart Deploy 219	Posted - 2015.08.04 20:56:00 - [25] - Quote My explanation is that this game takes place with an advance groups of civiluzations. They are able to clone, space travel, have laser weapons etc etc. With such advance technology it wouldn't. Be too hard to believe tgey also poses smart bullets. Tgese are projectiles that can adjust a fly path to hit a target. We have tgat technology here on earth albeit with larger projectiles. It wouldn't be too far fetch to belueve they have been able to miniturized that technology.
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2015.08.04 22:52:00 - [26] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio. Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken". Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact. if it was anyone other then you making those claims I might have reason to believe them, but as far as this debate has been going on you have stuck with the same evidence that does not clearly portray the issue I have issued challenges to you to prove your claims once and for all but you have yet to accept any of them So, quite literally, because it is -me- that is proposing this you refuse to listen. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a text book example of Ad Hominem. EDIT: And what challenges? I don't recall any challenges. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Larkson Crazy Eye WarRavens 168	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:01:00 - [27] - Quote I don't really have to much trouble with the aim assist or dmg dealt via head shots. Though I do feel other side arms seem to be lacking in comparison of just how fast a BP can kill some one. Perhaps a smaller clip/less ammo to compensate for the fact you can kill some one in maybe one or two shots. The main thing I think that makes the BP too op is the range. It does above average dmg at ranges normally reserved for rifles. A BP from 60m away shouldn't be doing 400+ dmg a shot still. Longer ranges are also where the miracle homing bullets really come into play. It's the side arm of almost every heavy for that very reason. Anything out of range of their HMG they pull out their BP and aim in the general direction of the enemy and get lucky more often than not despite them being almost 100m away at times. Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician: "Everybody but me--CHARGE!"
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:11:00 - [28] - Quote Larkson Crazy Eye wrote: I don't really have to much trouble with the aim assist or dmg dealt via head shots. Though I do feel other side arms seem to be lacking in comparison of just how fast a BP can kill some one. Perhaps a smaller clip/less ammo to compensate for the fact you can kill some one in maybe one or two shots. The main thing I think that makes the BP too op is the range. It does above average dmg at ranges normally reserved for rifles. A BP from 60m away shouldn't be doing 400+ dmg a shot still. Longer ranges are also where the miracle homing bullets really come into play. It's the side arm of almost every heavy for that very reason. Anything out of range of their HMG they pull out their BP and aim in the general direction of the enemy and get lucky more often than not despite them being almost 100m away at times. you need to correct yourself the numbers you mention are all off after about 40m the damge starts to fall off and you can hardly do much damage at 100m to kill someone with two shots unless they are a scout the only rifle that has a similar range is the AR which is an anti shiled weapon it also has a higher dps value then that of the BP so not much to be argued there I don't think we should retract from the main purpose of this sidearm as it is a caldari weapon meant to be used at range click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 754	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:16:00 - [29] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Apparently, the only way this debate will ever be solved is if CCP releases data on all the weapons, showing their Headshot to Kill ratio. Otherwise it's always going to be just two sides, one saying: "Here's my evidence complete with video as to why this weapon is broken" and "here's my anecdotal wall of text as to why this weapon is not broken". Because, yanno, the overwhelming amount of documented video evidence against this thing apparently isn't enough to stop the hair-brained "anti-BP" and "anti-Caldari" arguments in defense of this certainly odd behavior. Just as well we apparently forgot that opinion < fact. if it was anyone other then you making those claims I might have reason to believe them, but as far as this debate has been going on you have stuck with the same evidence that does not clearly portray the issue I have issued challenges to you to prove your claims once and for all but you have yet to accept any of them So, quite literally, because it is -me- that is proposing this you refuse to listen. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a text book example of Ad Hominem. EDIT: And what challenges? I don't recall any challenges. the fact that you have been so stubborn in your intent to push your views on others is enough for me to dismiss anything you have to say, I have issues various challenges in accordance to use the BP without AA and to prove that it is the OP weapon you have claimed it to be, that and to give clear unedited video evidence unlike that of which you have tried to base your points off of. All of that along with what I have mentioned in this post has been completely dismissed instead of trying it out you choose to remain stagnant on your opinion click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's


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