DUST Search - [Suggestion] Bolt pistol

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

And yet the assault rifle kills significantly faster than the bolt pistol against everyone who has a HP mod count of more than zero (and not in a scout suit)

If you're going to bring math to prop up your assertion please bring ALL of the math, to include both examples, overall DPS and average TTK rather than presenting the base alpha and saying "clearly as you can see this is OP."

Also please compare damage values after the headshot modifiers are applied and consider a difference of about 353 meters in favor of the sniper.

Posting the alpha and screaming about imbalance without putting everything on the table is disingenuous and deceptive.

I didnt say the Bolt pistols kill faster than ARs.

There is a reason why nppbpdy is comparing the Bolt Pistol as a sidearms to other sidearms. We are comparing it to light weapons, becuase it has the range of a light weapon as well as the damage output of a light weapon.

Every other sidearm has a drawback to its power. They all give up either acuaracy (flaylock, magsec) or range (Scrambler Pistol, SMG, Ion Pistol) for damage.

The bolt pistol has excellent range, pinpoint accuarcy and Sniper Rifle levels of damage. You can two shot any suit with 686 armor or less at 47 meters. With zero proficiency. Prof 5 does 788 in two shots. Thats not just scouts anymore thats most assault suits dead with two bullets. This is OP as balls.

Nobody is saying the bolt pistol shouldn't put down suits. But it certainly ought take more than 4 shots to do it.


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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 727	Posted - 2015.07.30 23:44:00 - [1] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: What if I told you... That 'Bolt Pistol is OP' is a myth? Do you really see it that often on the killfeed that it's clearly the best weapon in the game? Or do you simply get annoyed that when it kills you, it tends to do so abruptly? Or are you just on the bandwagon? these 700 damage per shot actuators have no idea what they are talking about the majority of the time not to mention that other sidearms are still capable of far more in the right hands I agree with you Talos it is a myth along with many other things the ScR was never OP the fact of the matter is that a lot of weapons that have gone trough nerfs in the past are UP therefore making things that are and were working as intended to seem OP I have doubts that the underlying problems will be solved due to the inability of people to come to terms with the reality that they are the problem to begin with many simple things could be done to make things better but there are many who appose them because they are not willing to adapt and I highly doubt that a lot of the CPM candidates will do anything to help with those problems as most seem to only care about their own opinions and only cater to those that agree with them, I have hope that some of the more serious players will at least try to look at the underlying causes and work their way up from there click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 731	Posted - 2015.07.31 13:00:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And yet the assault rifle kills significantly faster than the bolt pistol against everyone who has a HP mod count of more than zero (and not in a scout suit) If you're going to bring math to prop up your assertion please bring ALL of the math, to include both examples, overall DPS and average TTK rather than presenting the base alpha and saying "clearly as you can see this is OP." Also please compare damage values after the headshot modifiers are applied and consider a difference of about 353 meters in favor of the sniper. Posting the alpha and screaming about imbalance without putting everything on the table is disingenuous and deceptive. this is exactly what I have been trying to get people to see, there is a lot more going on then the damage per shot and potential head shot damage the number of shots and the spool up time make the weapon unique as far as the sniper rifle argument goes I think it should be brought in line to be able to be used at closer ranges but with the head shot that can actually do well over 700 damge at std considering some bonuses here and there, it would definately be OP when used by those that can actually aim even without AA a single shot weapon such as the roden SR that has to be reloaded every shot would make sense and would justify the amount of damge it does, although removing the sway completely makes it so that it still far easier to land head shots and as has happened with other weapons it would be considered OP the BP has only about 220% ish or so head shot multiplier if nothing else is factored in the most damge a single shot could do is about 530 (from a std BP) doing 10% more to armor getting close to 600 with max skills you can get to the 700 and with stacked damage mods you're getting a bit more, but even doing that much damge armor suits still get a buffer of about 100 or more shiled hp and the amarr can stack armor up in the 800 using just std plates, and can still stack damge mods of their own same goes for the gallente which has a bigger buffer due to having more shields meaning at most if your shields are up the damage you take is reduced by 100-200 even more with shiled extenders that you can easily fit so out of the base 500-600 head shot damge that shields would take only about 500 or less would even effect the armor making it almost always a two head shot kill weapon and about a full clip more or less to take someone out using body shots a lot of people see the damge delt be higher then it actually is due to the damge being calculated over time if you took damge from someone repped back up and they end up killing you that damage stacks up lets consider that the high damage potential makes the BP OP, and take a look at the ScR with its current damge and current stats at std, a charged shot to shields does about 250 or more damge (shiled damge head shot) and the ScR has a RoF of 600 meaning 10 shots per seconds is the fastest possible, just with 10 normal shots shields take 650 damage plus the profile that adds on 20% thats 720 damge just off the bat only with body shots and no damge mods or anything else add the charged shot into it due to the ability of the rifle to start off with it and that goes up at least a few hundred points I believe the damge multiplier is 2.5 so 65*2.5 is 162.5, 720+162=882 that's damage without head shots head shot multi is about 1.3 for all rifles so 30% of 882 is 264.6 making the total damage dealt to shields with full head shots 1,146 and a std shiled suit can stack a max of about 500 shields compared to the 800+of armor suits and shiled suits give up damage mods and recharge rates if they decide to dual tank for extra armor, and the ScR can compete with even the RR at range as its optimal is only a few meters behind with a lot more damge potential then the RR so even now if the high alpha of the BP is OP then by far the ScR and other rifles far out perform it making them using that mindset OP the numbers are all there the BP is by far not OP but issues such as AA that pertain to a lot of weapons are there and the issue of shields potential to armor potential is also there, a lot of underlying issues exist when it comes to balance and I think we need to fix those before we can get any serious balancing done to weapons for me there is no bias I use shields primarily because they make it easier to play solo so I don't have to rely on a logi or carry around triage nanos it frees me up to play however I want but I still have skilled into almost every suit to std just to be able to switch it up when need be, I do not think the ScR is OP currently not to armor at least as it used to be, the BP is also by far not OP but I do have issues with AA as a lot of others do I think the reason some things seem OP is because the things that are supposed to counter them are UP not under powered but instead under performing they aren't doing the job that they are meant to and I have seen many argue that some weapons are actually UP because they aren't doing what they aren't even supposed to do, a prime example would be the AR in the current armor meta the AR seem by far UP due to its range and role (anti shields) the problem here is that the ScR is better at taking out shields in any situation making it useless to carry around an AR to deal with what they are meant to deal with, then when it comes to engagement (CQC as they are meant for short range) armor suits dominate the field making it hard on an AR user to deal enough damge and other weapons cut in such as the HMG and AHMG being more effective at dealing with armor in those ranges, so that's another issue I have some weapons do their jobs well but cut into other weapons roles making them seem less effective, perhaps higher damge would make them shine in CQC but I think that would cut into other weapons and their roles click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 731	Posted - 2015.07.31 13:08:00 - [3] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And yet the assault rifle kills significantly faster than the bolt pistol against everyone who has a HP mod count of more than zero (and not in a scout suit) If you're going to bring math to prop up your assertion please bring ALL of the math, to include both examples, overall DPS and average TTK rather than presenting the base alpha and saying "clearly as you can see this is OP." Also please compare damage values after the headshot modifiers are applied and consider a difference of about 353 meters in favor of the sniper. Posting the alpha and screaming about imbalance without putting everything on the table is disingenuous and deceptive. I didnt say the Bolt pistols kill faster than ARs. There is a reason why nppbpdy is comparing the Bolt Pistol as a sidearms to other sidearms. We are comparing it to light weapons, becuase it has the range of a light weapon as well as the damage output of a light weapon. Every other sidearm has a drawback to its power. They all give up either acuaracy (flaylock, magsec) or range (Scrambler Pistol, SMG, Ion Pistol) for damage. The bolt pistol has excellent range, pinpoint accuarcy and Sniper Rifle levels of damage. You can two shot any suit with 686 armor or less at 47 meters. With zero proficiency. Prof 5 does 788 in two shots. Thats not just scouts anymore thats most assault suits dead with two bullets. This is OP as balls. Nobody is saying the bolt pistol shouldn't put down suits. But it certainly ought take more than 4 shots to do it. the ScP does over 400% head shot damge one shot kill in most cases for any shield suit if using the breach scp 150*400% is 600 plus the 20% of damge profile (laser) and 15% for proficiency the flaylock is a dumb fire weapon meant more for area denial or suppression magsec is an SMG that does armor damge the regular SMG does this better but at closer ranges Ion pistol like the ScP can do massive amounts of shiled damge and has a fast enough fire rate and high enough alpha damge to deal with armor in its intended CQC even with the 10% penalty of its profile it remains the best sidearm to deal with anything that gets in your face working almost as a pocket shotgun also 4 shots is all you get if you cant take someone out with 1 clip then what use do you have for that weapon that is a questionable argument and I question your sanity or at least your train of thought for making it click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 735	Posted - 2015.07.31 13:56:00 - [4] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Nobody is saying the bolt pistol shouldn't put down suits. But it certainly ought take more than 4 shots to do it. No other weapon requires more than a full mag/2 seconds to kill any dropsuit. Why should the BP be the sole exception to this rule? Please use a better argument than " its op." The issue isn't the damage per magazine. The issue is the low number of shots it takes to kill a suit. Because the shot count per mag is so low, it has to a vastly disproptionate amount of damage per shot. That extreme damage per shot makes kills very easy to get. Where I have to take 5 shots with a proto breach scrambler pistol to get through 500 hp, i only need 2 from the proto bolt. What i'm saying is it needs to be less damage per shot, more shots per magazine. It has the long range to take those extra shots, and then missing any shots with that spool time would matter. Right now, it doesnt. did you miss the part of my post where I mentioned the 400% head shot damge of the ScP not only that but the ScP is a anti shiled weapon where the BP is anti armor so comparing the two doesn't justify anything 10% +- profile for BP 20% +- profile for the ScP and the ScP gets more shots per clip then the ScP so more total possible damge click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's