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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 719	Posted - 2015.07.28 19:14:00 - [1] - Quote lower dispersion further for the AR and increase the hip fire dispersion for the BP or make it work like the sniper rifle where it has none so it can truly be a pocket sniper click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.07.28 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote When you say "make [the bolt pistol] work like the sniper rifle where it has none" are you trying to say remove the bolt pistol's reticule when not scoped? As far as you AR suggestion I have never believed the AR's problem is dispersion. The thing has no dispersion when ADSing and shocking little when hip firing. No the problem with the AR is the same problem all the weapons used to have, it's range to damage ratio is incorrect. With such a short range the AR needs to deal more DPS which could come from a higher per shot damage or a higher rate of fire. Alternately the optimal and maximum range could be extended slightly. It is this later option that seems the best course of action for balancing the weapon as there are few spots in the current batch of maps that have short enough ranges to let the AR shine. Extending the AR's range profile in small incremental steps is the best way to balance it with the other weapons. Now with more evil.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 719	Posted - 2015.07.28 20:46:00 - [3] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: When you say "make [the bolt pistol] work like the sniper rifle where it has none" are you trying to say remove the bolt pistol's reticule when not scoped? As far as you AR suggestion I have never believed the AR's problem is dispersion. The thing has no dispersion when ADSing and shocking little when hip firing. No the problem with the AR is the same problem all the weapons used to have, it's range to damage ratio is incorrect. With such a short range the AR needs to deal more DPS which could come from a higher per shot damage or a higher rate of fire. Alternately the optimal and maximum range could be extended slightly. It is this later option that seems the best course of action for balancing the weapon as there are few spots in the current batch of maps that have short enough ranges to let the AR shine. Extending the AR's range profile in small incremental steps is the best way to balance it with the other weapons. I honestly think that you have no idea what you're saying and are just repeating what others say the reason I say the AR's dispersion (hip fire not ads) is because people complain that its easier to hip fire with other rifles the AR already does about 50-100 more dps then most rifles especially to shields as it is intended. people complain because it doesn't do much damage against armor which it shouldn't and the reason I say remove the hip fire from the BP is because everyone complains about the AA on its hipfire and call it a pocket sniper so might as well emphasis that and justify the damage output so that people can expect that click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1	Posted - 2015.07.28 21:19:00 - [4] - Quote If you add about 15m to the AR optimal and drop the RR & ARR optimal by 5 to 10m (looking for all 4 rifles to be within 15m optimal range) you solve a ton of bitching. The massive disparity in rifle (and a few other weapons) ranges is perhaps the single biggest driver for balance tomfoolery we have baked in the game. The BP may be fun for some but ultimately it's bad design and didn't feel a niche we needed. Probably needs a serious range and hip fire accuracy nerf. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 720	Posted - 2015.07.28 21:58:00 - [5] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: If you add about 15m to the AR optimal and drop the RR & ARR optimal by 5 to 10m (looking for all 4 rifles to be within 15m optimal range) you solve a ton of bitching. The massive disparity in rifle (and a few other weapons) ranges is perhaps the single biggest driver for balance tomfoolery we have baked in the game. The BP may be fun for some but ultimately it's bad design and didn't feel a niche we needed. Probably needs a serious range and hip fire accuracy nerf. again repeating things that many others have said instead of taking away diversity (range nerfs and buffs) we should look for alternatives to make each weapon more viable at its role the BP is not a bad design at all it does what its supposed to and it does it well being able to take out armor doesn't make it OP like so many people claim in case you think it is then so is the forge gun I do not believe that buffing the range will solve anything in fact it would only serve to make things worse, instead each weapon needs to emphasis its role and under perform when not used as intended example drastically reduce kick for RR when aimed down sights and increase kick when firing from hip, as for the AR decrease the hip fire dispersion further making it more precise in CQC up to its optimal with damage dropping off past its optimal making it most the most effective and most accurate within its range as for lasers the ScR needs a range nerf in my opinion so the Laser rifle can take over for ranged engagement making the amarr have their respective long range and short range laser rifles to further emphasis this give each faction its short and long range rifles (this can be the variants but preferably a different rifle altogether to emphasis the rifles roles) click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RUST415 2	Posted - 2015.07.29 07:50:00 - [6] - Quote We should really request some numbers from Rattati again. CCP collects data on how all the weapons are being used (by which I mean both frequency of use and effectiveness). To really start having a serious conversation about rebalancing light weapons again we should see how the picture has changed since the last balance pass. Rattati, any chance of getting that data thrown our way when your devs have a spare minute. Now with more evil.
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 919	Posted - 2015.07.29 13:08:00 - [7] - Quote Stop suggesting lowering dispersion on the AR. It's a close range weapon and having some dispersion is nice. Bolt Pistol needs a damage reduction and less bullet magnetism Wanna play eve?
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 724	Posted - 2015.07.29 13:44:00 - [8] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Stop suggesting lowering dispersion on the AR. It's a close range weapon and having some dispersion is nice. Bolt Pistol needs a damage reduction and less bullet magnetism you do realize it has a skill that lowers dispersion? and that the assault lowers it further? it makes it perform better at close range and withing 40m to land more shots without having to ads if you like the dispersion you don't have to skill into it, that simple BP does not have more AA then any other weapon that is an ignorant observation as AA affect more then just the BP the BP does not need a damage reduction it does the amount of damage it's supposed to taking that away would make it not perform as it is supposed to I have given plenty of solutions so people can stop complaining about it yet no one wants to listen and its still the same argument "it kills me its OP" and the only excuse anyone has to claim it being OP is the AA, play without and instead of assuming something that is incorrect lowering dispersion on the AR makes it better not worse if you can aim instead of using AA as a crutch, I am open to better suggestions but increasing the damage or range doesn't do anything for it other rifles will still be better at range and still do more damage due to it being a primarily anti shield weapon in an armor meta the BP can only do so much damage so fast while other weapons are capable of the same amount of damage in half the time the bullet magnetism is due to AA all rifles share this trait as well, removing the AA would go a long way to get rid of false accusations I have called out many people that claim things that are incorrect and give misinformation to those looking for any excuse to nerf what they don't like click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 466	Posted - 2015.07.29 13:57:00 - [9] - Quote If it was something that could be hotfixed, I would suggest removing AA from game for two weeks and gather the data from that span. My guess is, a LOT of things would change real quick. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 724	Posted - 2015.07.29 14:00:00 - [10] - Quote Devadander wrote: If it was something that could be hotfixed, I would suggest removing AA from game for two weeks and gather the data from that span. My guess is, a LOT of things would change real quick. yes thank no one else seems to agree, more then half the people in this game cant aim with AA much less without it but at least it gives skilled players priority over proto tryhards, it also helps remove this aim bot type play style that a lot of "elite" players use click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's

Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 919	Posted - 2015.07.29 14:02:00 - [11] - Quote I've been using the bolt Pistol for the past few days. I aim at someones leg and I get a head shot that does 800+ damage. I'm sick of people trying to tell me that the AR needs less dispersion. It barely has any dispersion to begin with, there is no point lowering it. The only weapons that gets real benefit from the gal assault bonus are the ion Pistol and tac AR. I don't need a bonus to hit someone right next to me. The gal assault bonus should give an optimal range increase and I don't see why it would be a problem seeing as how it is all of the gallente weapons weakness. Same reason the cal assault bonus needs to be changed. Reload speed isn't a weakness, the kick is. Also. Bolt Pistol is OP, 2 shots kill almost any light and medium frame, explain how that is fair. Wanna play eve?
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 724	Posted - 2015.07.29 14:42:00 - [12] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: I've been using the bolt Pistol for the past few days. I aim at someones leg and I get a head shot that does 800+ damage. I'm sick of people trying to tell me that the AR needs less dispersion. It barely has any dispersion to begin with, there is no point lowering it. The only weapons that gets real benefit from the gal assault bonus are the ion Pistol and tac AR. I don't need a bonus to hit someone right next to me. The gal assault bonus should give an optimal range increase and I don't see why it would be a problem seeing as how it is all of the gallente weapons weakness. Same reason the cal assault bonus needs to be changed. Reload speed isn't a weakness, the kick is. Also. Bolt Pistol is OP, 2 shots kill almost any light and medium frame, explain how that is fair. you need to realize that the kick the RR has was put in place because it used to dominate the field the AR got a damage and range nerf for the same reason the bonuses may need to be looked at but they are not the problem the reason I say dispersion is because people are complaining abut the ARR being better and they claim you don't have to aim to get kills at range the BP does not do 800 damage for a head shot that is false, and you aiming at someones foot is ridiculous, no one aims at a persons foot on purpose unless they are behind cover the head shot damage is about 220% even if you hit an armor target the most damage you can do with stacked damage mods is somewhere in the 600's, an ScR can do over 1k to shields in under a second also I've stated this many times just because AA helps you get kills does not make the BP op, play without AA and tell me if you still get magical head shots, I doubt you'd even get any kills if your aiming at people feet all the time also what people are telling you that the AR needs less dispersion? as far as I know I am the only one that has suggested it giving a rifle that's meant for CQC more range is counter intuitive, why give a rifle that is meant to be used in short range more range? reload is a major weakness of rail weaponry as it has some of the highest reload times of all rifles the kick is a fault of players that didn't like getting killed by a good rifle due to its range and profile it dominated in the early armor meta I am tired myself of hearing false information and accusations that have no solid evidence other then false claims that the BP seems to be the only one that has any AA or that it deal too much damage when evidence clearly shows this to be false many people have recordings of them supposedly showing that the BP is OP or that it has some super magnetism but none of those players choose to accept my challenge of them to do the same without AA turned on its clearly evident that a specific few would like to be the only ones able to deal massive amounts of damage and have little to worry about as they are they main advocates of nerfing anything that can kill them while preventing nerfs on anything they use I know I am pretty much perching to the quire with so many stubborn people arguing about something they don't even clearly understand, I gave two good balance ideas that do not interfere with damage and range profiles and people that are hellbent on nerfing the BP are here to keep trying to nerf it, and the users of the AR are stuck on buffing it by giving it more damage and more range "nerf what kills me buff what I use" seriously I use the AR more often then I use the ARR its a great rifle and it doesn't need more range nor more damage everyone ignores the underling issue mostly because they are a part of the problem, the armor meta is the reason why there are so many problems with balance that along with AA that acts like a sort of aimbot that makes it completely unfair for those with actual skill to perform better against odds that they would otherwise dominate in I am not here to try to buff or nerf any specific thing, instead I would rather rework certain aspects to make things perform as they should I would like to see shields be buffed to a reasonable spot armor has way too many advantages over it the strafing was re balanced that was the major problem with min frames now no one complains about it the ScR was nerfed and many moved to using the ARR, not many people complain about it anymore due to the increase of ARR and BP users more people are calling for nerfs to these the AR is not used as often so people are calling for a buff I just think its ridiculous the excuses that people use to buff or nerf something have almost nothing to do with actual balance and more to do with popularity click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 919	Posted - 2015.07.29 15:16:00 - [13] - Quote The Tac AR was the reason that all ARs got nerfed and then a rifle sweep was done not long after to reduce TTK. Also as for the BP headshot thing, let's do the math: Proto BP damage 251.9 Add a proto sidearm mod = 272 Headshot multiplier to shields 2.25 Damage to shields = 612 If I add proficiency and warbarge 5 and the 10% extra damage armour takes from it I guarantee it goes near 800. Armour damage: 251.9 x 1.28 (damage mod, proficiency and warbarge) = 322.3 Head shot bonus to armour (is either 2.4 or 2.5) Damage = 322.3 x 2.5 = 806. See, it goes over 800 damage if it was 2.4 times the damage it would be a little less than 800. Also, this isn't hard for people to do. Especially for those that can throw money at the game. Don't tell me that this gun cannot do 800 damage ever again because it can. Wanna play eve?
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.29 20:42:00 - [14] - Quote Dispersion should be optional, interchangeable sort of deal. While that can be argued for the AR Sharpshooter skill, it cannot be argued for the Gallente Assault skill which you -must- skill into to use the suit and also to progress with it as a whole. Further more, if the AR's base dispersion was reduced, the weapon would cease to function for many players as it would become laser accurate, which isn't something you necessary want in high-intensity CQC fights where the strafe speeds and mobility matters more so than long-range. This is explained very well through this simple animation. General premise is that the farther away someone is from you, the easier it is to hit them, and the less dispersion is necessarily to help with those mistakes in aiming - not being exact or precise. I've always been of the volition that dispersion should not be determined by skills but by something modular that you can switch out if you don't like it. But no, to round off my argument, dispersion isn't what is going to save the AR, it's having high enough DPS to validate it's significantly lower range than other rifles who are comparable in the DPS department or can make up for their lack of DPS through damage modules. Aeon Amadi for CPM 2 Design A SKIN 2
Salvador-SIX7 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.07.29 21:26:00 - [15] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: lower dispersion further for the AR and increase the hip fire dispersion for the BP or make it work like the sniper rifle where it has none so it can truly be a pocket sniper i agree with you there on the bp being a pocket sniper but i don't think we should remove the hip fire reticule instead we should drop the dmg of the bolt pistol by half , double the mag size, decrease the charge time and make the weapon a semi auto that way it doesn't do 700 dmg per headshot and it wont be as broken
korrah silain True Illuminate 107	Posted - 2015.08.04 08:44:00 - [16] - Quote Salvador-SIX7 wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: lower dispersion further for the AR and increase the hip fire dispersion for the BP or make it work like the sniper rifle where it has none so it can truly be a pocket sniper i agree with you there on the bp being a pocket sniper but i don't think we should remove the hip fire reticule instead we should drop the dmg of the bolt pistol by half , double the mag size, decrease the charge time and make the weapon a semi auto that way it doesn't do 700 dmg per headshot and it wont be as broken We have that it's called a scrambler pistol, except that particular weapon can get into insane damage levels if it gets a headshot. Why aren't you asking it to be nerfed? you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 09:46:00 - [17] - Quote korrah silain wrote: We have that it's called a scrambler pistol, except that particular weapon can get into insane damage levels if it gets a headshot. Why aren't you asking it to be nerfed? AA buggers up scrambler pistols WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
korrah silain True Illuminate 107	Posted - 2015.08.04 09:56:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: korrah silain wrote: We have that it's called a scrambler pistol, except that particular weapon can get into insane damage levels if it gets a headshot. Why aren't you asking it to be nerfed? AA buggers up scrambler pistols Sorry let me clarify that was in response to this suggestion: Salvador-SIX7 wrote: drop the dmg of the bolt pistol by half , double the mag size, decrease the charge time and make the weapon a semi auto that way it doesn't do 700 dmg per headshot and it wont be as broken Which is basically saying "make the bolt pistol a scrambler pistol without headshot bonus, or charged rail weapon fire mechanic." Yeah, no thanks, I like my pistol to have range and be able to take out unsuspecting prey. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 10:07:00 - [19] - Quote I was not correcting you. Just making an observation that the ScP is one of the few weapons that actually works as advertised if you turn AA off. Because then you can ADS someones head. If you get headshots more than once in a row it makes the bolt pistol look like a tinkertoy. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
korrah silain True Illuminate 107	Posted - 2015.08.04 10:12:00 - [20] - Quote Ah, well no worries then, and yeah it does, my real main concern is range/alpha rather than just headsho damage. I like to use it as a secondary on things that are otherwise geared towards cqc(shotty scout, and ar based suits come to mind). Balances damage output ranges, and the damage gives me a fair chance of overwhelming the opposition before they can bolt(or at least hurts them bad enough that they hesitate to retaliate) you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:00:00 - [21] - Quote why must all precision weapons be made intentionally imprecise at particular ranges?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 10	Posted - 2015.08.04 11:46:00 - [22] - Quote The bolt pistol as a backup (unless you're attacking an AV gunner) tends to be used as a finisher against strafers. The slow fire weapons seem to have better damage application overall than rapid fire whenever you're dealing with sh*tlag. It's why I use breach ARs on my commandos. If my aim is solid, most of my shots will hit (I live in alaska, so my lag is just enough to screw me, but not enough to rubber band you) even through my crap hit detection more reliably. It's the primary reason I use the AHMG over the HMG. The damage feels like it applies more reliably. This is why 9/10 times you will see me running inefficient, slow-fire breach weapons and bolt pistols. Because I don't lose 30-60% of my damage to crappy application of damage. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.


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