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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems.
When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand.
When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds.
Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle)
Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so.
Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag)
There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out.
Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching.
I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I am become lag, destroyer of K/D.
AND THEN STEVE BUSCEMI SHOWS UP ON A FLYING PIG FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON
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7th Son 7
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's been bad for me lately also. Getting stuck on buildings, delays and lag have been happening a lot lately for me. It's def not my internet because I'm checking my speed as it's happening.
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I just assumed it was something on my end. but its been horrible, and more noticeable recently.
tried to deal damage to a guy camping, for 10 full seconds. repeatedly fire and and refired. nothing happened. of course he deals damage just fine to me lol |
Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
725
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Posted - 2015.07.25 09:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've been getting stuck on the Victory Screen
Use it ----> Abuse It ----> Nerf !!!
a¦á_a¦á
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.07.25 13:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:I've been getting stuck on the Victory Screen
The last time I played I just turned the game off the second time I got stuck in the screen. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 15:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something.
wrong question
ask instead why was the oceania server discontinued?
need for profit
why spend money on one terrabyte of server bandwith for dust 514 when ccp can reduce it?
and with increased profits all thats needed is to blame lag instead of the real culprit reduced server bandwith
i wonder when all that will be left is a single server instead of regional area selections?
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.07.25 18:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. wrong question ask instead why was the oceania server discontinued? need for profit why spend money on one terrabyte of server bandwith for dust 514 when ccp can reduce it? and with increased profits all thats needed is to blame lag instead of the real culprit reduced server bandwith i wonder when all that will be left is a single server instead of regional area selections? That's a depressing possibility; the game is ruined for me if this is true.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
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Posted - 2015.07.25 18:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. Everything you just said means YOU lag. That is the problem.
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
|
Posted - 2015.07.25 19:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. The dead giveaway is the delay. When you go to do an action like throw a nade and its takes to long that IS A FOR SURE SIGN OF LATENCY..... May be in your squad. Or you are on the wrong server, or your net is trash. But the fact that you said YOU were teleporting that is lag. Not framerate. Put your squad in squadfinder and go look at your bars....
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. Everything you just said means YOU lag. That is the problem. If YOU actually read what I wrote, you would know that it only happens to me in Dust, and no other online multiplayer game. Secondly, I mentioned that other players I've talked to experienced these problems. It wasn't until very recently that that this all started, and the quality of my internet has not changed.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. wrong question ask instead why was the oceania server discontinued? need for profit why spend money on one terrabyte of server bandwith for dust 514 when ccp can reduce it? and with increased profits all thats needed is to blame lag instead of the real culprit reduced server bandwith i wonder when all that will be left is a single server instead of regional area selections? I have a 30mb connection and have 0 bandwidth issue as long as I stay on American servers. Most foreigners play here. If you have your server set to AUTOMATIC and you play here and you are from RUSSIA, without grwat net you will lag. Which is why games like Planet Side 2 make you stay in your region. And even BLACK OPS 2 offered better connections with longer ques. It was a nice little options setting. The take away? Foreigners go home. South and Central Americans get better net. I mean Kaizuka Sniper has a WTS squad up every morning now, just look at his BARS, he has 0 bars, none. Yet he only plays American and is the top killer. LOLZ @ that.....
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. Everything you just said means YOU lag. That is the problem. If YOU actually read what I wrote, you would know that it only happens to me in Dust, and no other online multiplayer game. Secondly, I mentioned that other players I've talked to experienced these problems. It wasn't until very recently that that this all started, and the quality of my internet has not changed. Thats great but thats still whats happening. Dust is more bandwidth intensive than DESTINY or BF4 which I play both, you can check if you have a router with a laptop. It may also be some1 in your squad or again your server...
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. Everything you just said means YOU lag. That is the problem. If YOU actually read what I wrote, you would know that it only happens to me in Dust, and no other online multiplayer game. Secondly, I mentioned that other players I've talked to experienced these problems. It wasn't until very recently that that this all started, and the quality of my internet has not changed. Meet me in game right now and I will prove it is YOU lagging.
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies
137
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:I've been getting stuck on the Victory Screen The last time I played I just turned the game off the second time I got stuck in the screen. Both lag and framerate can cause this, most often FRAMERATE.
Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
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KGB Sleep
Inner.Hell
1
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Posted - 2015.07.25 19:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Another possibility is that your PS3 is on its last leg.
Because beer, that's why.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
427
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Posted - 2015.07.25 20:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fresh ps3, best net in my state, fully tuned router and network, downloads data @ 8-10 megabytes per second from crappy sites, been playing dust since day one.
And yes, permanently set to Murica.
Since ninja update about a week after 1.2 I have been experiencing latency and frame issues where they have never been before.
Boulder rim pre redline fix, least favorite map. However, never once the slightest hiccup. Post redline fix, first time obj moves, stutter creeps in.
Something is not being communicated here....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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4lbert Wesker
TERRA R1SING New Eden's Heros
349
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Posted - 2015.07.25 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Guys,face it.CCP needs 2 months to add grenade slot on OFFICER amarr commando and you think they can fix server issues in 3 years?
lolnobye
WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2015.07.25 20:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:When I inquired about some server issues on July 23, CCP Frame replied and told me that they already fixed the server issues. Well the servers are still having problems. When I pull out my active scanner, I can't scan right away, and it takes a while to render in my hand. When I walk or sprint, I don't move smoothly through the world, but instead to me it looks like I'm teleporting 1 meter forward every few seconds. Try to spawn on an uplink, but nothing happens. I'm just stuck on the spawn selection screen. (just had to quit battle) Joined another battle. Moving around is still unsmooth and jittery, but much less so. Spawned on an uplink, started sinking through the ground, but the rebounded back up to ground level (though I think this might have nothing to do with server lag) There is a very noticeable delay between doing an action and seeing its result, for example: meleeing an enemy uplink, and seeing it get destroyed. Pressing O to hack something, and the hack actually starting. Firing the flaylock pistol, and seeing the rocket fly out. Every other online multiplayer game is working fine, and other players I've talked to experienced similar symptoms. Sgt Kirk has experienced a lot of lag lately, and Nova Knife (who has recently returned to Dust) told me that he just assumed that they added some sort of equipment switch delay because of the effects of the lag on the equipment switching. I usually love playing this game, despite all its faults, but I can't enjoy the game anymore in its current state. If you are having similar problems, please say something. The dead giveaway is the delay. When you go to do an action like throw a nade and its takes to long that IS A FOR SURE SIGN OF LATENCY..... May be in your squad. Or you are on the wrong server, or your net is trash. But the fact that you said YOU were teleporting that is lag. Not framerate. Put your squad in squadfinder and go look at your bars....
Latency can happen from both sides. It's not always network and it could be a bandwidth issue on the server side, response time from the server side, or one of any number of other bottlenecks that cause a delayed response. The fact that you're attacking him for reporting a problem that is widely experienced is part of the problem, and pretty much what CCP does. There are too many people experiencing these issues for it to be reasonably attributed to each of the many people experiencing the issue when the simplest answer is that there is an issue on the infrastructure side as the common factor for the people experiencing the issue.
As for region issues, the latency even going across the world is a fraction of what it was on dial-up even going all round the world and if games then could compensate for that, there's no reason that it shouldn't be possible now. Either way, that's CCP's responsibility. |
DDx77
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
327
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Posted - 2015.07.26 03:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
This has been happening on a regular basis with me as well
Major frame rate issues - stuck/cannot move/cannot select equipment - rubberbanding, other deploy/select glitches with equipment, delayed kills/deaths
This is not just the Gal facility. Happens in all modes but is more prevalent in FW and with PC you almost always lag
Maybe the devs just don't see it because they are looking at data and not playing as often?........and also because there are only 4 of them and they need to sleep?
If i made a video on my phone, where could I upload it? I don't have a YouTube account
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.07.26 03:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
So I'm clearly not the only one..... your move ccp!
Seriously done playing PC until they come on, and say they can fix it! Sorry guys, but this has become too much. Watching waiting from the sidelines now. Used to just hope I wouldn't lag, but now it's inevitable in every PC match?!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.07.26 07:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Fresh ps3, best net in my state, fully tuned router and network, downloads data @ 8-10 megabytes per second from crappy sites, been playing dust since day one.
And yes, permanently set to Murica.
Since ninja update about a week after 1.2 I have been experiencing latency and frame issues where they have never been before.
Boulder rim pre redline fix, least favorite map. However, never once the slightest hiccup. Post redline fix, first time obj moves, stutter creeps in.
Something is not being communicated here....
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest.
I keep harking on about how BEFORE the ACTUAL match making 'fixes' CCP did something a few weeks before that actually had matchmaking work like a charm for like a week or two straight.
Sometimes I think they forget what they have changed or possibly there is something else going on but this kind of thing has happened a few times now.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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Dewie Cheecham
Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
698
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Posted - 2015.07.26 08:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Try to check which server you are running on, and haven't accidentally set it to for instance the most distant (ie. the Asia is you are in Europe)
Everything you described happened to me when we were all forced to use the Asia server, when both the US and European servers went off line earlier this week.
That's not saying the game doesn't have problems, it has a LOT of them, with lag and dropping frame rates etc. still being major problems. It is often blatantly evident during long battles, when suddenly everything becomes neigh unplayable, with 1fps or less. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say memory leaks.
Dear CCP. Games with lots of equipment spam often grinds to a screeching halt, even after the equipment is gone. Once the frame rates crash they rarely if ever recover. That just screams of a memory leak to me; that even the removal of items doesn't help suggests they are still taking up resources. |
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