DUST Search - Dropships have no opportunity

Balistyc Farshot wrote:

Pvt Numnutz wrote:

What fit were you using? With a complex hardener and an enhanced heavy shield extender I can shrug off most swarms and even try and fight them. The only ones that I have to run from regardless of resists and tank is the minmando with wikis.

I have more of a problem with the fact that av v ads is balanced around a single turret dropship with tank shields and hardeners. There isnt really any interesting fitting options, you need an afterburner, you need a hardener and if you want that hardener to make an actual difference you need to fit an extender. This all means you have no fitting what so ever for side guns.
Gunnnner fits do have to run constantly, you can't fit a good enough tank and you can't use a hardener because it blinds your gunners defeating the purpose of gimping your ship in the first place. I've been playing around with a solo dropship and its really fun to be able to actually fight against swarmers, fighting forge guns has always been fun and challenging. when a dropship actually fights back against swarms is really depressing. It's like they have no idea how to actually fight when their target is fighting back.
Nothing about a swarm fight is fun, instead of being fun its just tedious and that has everything to do with there being no skill involved on the swarmers end.

I haven't ran an ADS in a while because I changed over to tanks when the new frames came in, but swarms shouldn't be a problem. You seem to think the ADS is an attack chopper. It isn't!

Use it to strafe and push around infantry before dropping in a heavy, logi, and a couple of scouts/assaults. Those 4 will clean up any minmando rocking swarms and you get to see that he lost more isk in that one av fitting than you did in the whole ADS. I liked when the prices came down on all vehicles, so we need to stay away from this AV versus infantry discussion. It is in a great place right now. My tank can push around an objective unless I get greedy or stay in 1 place too long. Same with an ADS.

If you get greedy, you are asking to be blown up. If an infantry man is behind cover and you are trying to maneuver to get that one kill, you are doing it wrong. Strafe!!!

Fly around, drop in infantry, while your infantry engages, engage the infantry, then leave before 2 minutes has passed. This will see your ADS perform the hit and run/drop and run tactic it was meant to do.
Vehicles have been solo beasts, but we need to see them as vehicles!
BTW - You are lucky. My ADS used to get downed by tanks a lot lately, not swarms. Redline rail snipers!!!

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Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:16:00 - [1] - Quote The uprising vehicle changes were supposed to transform vehicle play into "waves of opportunity" where they would be extremely strong for a short period of time before they became vulnerable and had to retreat for a cooldown period. I have flown the a ADS for a week now and found that it is vulnerable to swarms even while running dual hardeners. A single player with a prototype launcher and stacked damage mods can take down a dual hardened ship in a few seconds. The only hope a pilot has to save his ship is to run on afterburner the moment he hears a launch. Dual reppers are a total failure. As it is a pilot can't support his team over the few objectives that aren't under cover and can't even force the enemy to be vulnerable by switching to AV. A commando can carry a SL along with another light weapon and there need only be a single launcher in play for total air denial. The dropship has no wave of opportunity, it just alternates between vulnerable and fragile. All this because of a skill less auto homing weapon.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 631	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:27:00 - [2] - Quote as a player that uses drop ships all the time to get from place to place or hunt down roof top targets I can say that you are doing it wrong normal drop ships are meant to get in drop some people off and get out ADS is meant to be quicker for hit and run tactics, fly in hardeners activated kill a few targets get out before your hardeners run out or stay and risk getting killed proto swarms still take almost all three volleys to take you out with or without hardeners if you fit you ADS right and you should already be retreating after the first volley if your hardeners are out meanign even without a afterburner you should be able to outmaneuver them or straight out, out run them as an ads can achieve much higher speeds then a regular drop ship while in cities or areas with cover the pilot should use that to their advantage to avoid being locked or to make swarms miss by making sharp turns any good ADS pilot can take out any AV player before they get a chance to drop them and even a bad ADS pilot should be able to get away from unfavorable situations click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:28:00 - [3] - Quote It's the same with tanks, but tanks get more places to hide. The problem arises when balancing between dropships and tanks. If you make a module so that a dropship can survive a blast, then tanks can use it too... tanks typically get about 50% more efficiency from modules. It used to be that dropships were fast enough to just go straight up to avoid all fire, and sturdy enough to resist for long enough to do that as well. However that caused a problem where dropships didn't have any fear of being destroyed from ground crews, because they all knew how to push for the sky. This then scaled out into tanks, which caused a problem on a few fronts. Unless you could give transport dropships some resist, but not assault variants... http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:48:00 - [4] - Quote Swarms? Who plays with them if you can use a glass cannon to two shot any ADS. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 911	Posted - 2015.07.14 01:50:00 - [5] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: as a player that uses drop ships all the time to get from place to place or hunt down roof top targets I can say that you are doing it wrong normal drop ships are meant to get in drop some people off and get out ADS is meant to be quicker for hit and run tactics, fly in hardeners activated kill a few targets get out before your hardeners run out or stay and risk getting killed proto swarms still take almost all three volleys to take you out with or without hardeners if you fit you ADS right and you should already be retreating after the first volley if your hardeners are out meanign even without a afterburner you should be able to outmaneuver them or straight out, out run them as an ads can achieve much higher speeds then a regular drop ship while in cities or areas with cover the pilot should use that to their advantage to avoid being locked or to make swarms miss by making sharp turns any good ADS pilot can take out any AV player before they get a chance to drop them and even a bad ADS pilot should be able to get away from unfavorable situations Yeah, all that is wrong. Too little a window of opportunity, bad hit detection along with server lag and only one guy easily popping out that one swarm with ungodly targeting range push ADS to the back of the bus just like the "racist" VEHICLEPHOBES wanted. Congrats, y'all got the boring simplistic game you craved. MY CPM2 PLATFORM
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 2	Posted - 2015.07.14 02:08:00 - [6] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: as a player that uses drop ships all the time to get from place to place or hunt down roof top targets I can say that you are doing it wrong normal drop ships are meant to get in drop some people off and get out ADS is meant to be quicker for hit and run tactics, fly in hardeners activated kill a few targets get out before your hardeners run out or stay and risk getting killed proto swarms still take almost all three volleys to take you out with or without hardeners if you fit you ADS right and you should already be retreating after the first volley if your hardeners are out meanign even without a afterburner you should be able to outmaneuver them or straight out, out run them as an ads can achieve much higher speeds then a regular drop ship while in cities or areas with cover the pilot should use that to their advantage to avoid being locked or to make swarms miss by making sharp turns any good ADS pilot can take out any AV player before they get a chance to drop them and even a bad ADS pilot should be able to get away from unfavorable situations Actually, ADS is for more run than hit. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.14 03:12:00 - [7] - Quote The promise was to be able to linger over the target for 30 seconds before having to run and hide. The reality is zero linger time when the first volley is launched. You simply can't be effective in the ADS if you can't stick around. That's why you don't see dropships used for more than getting on top of buildings that the Quake jumpers can't leap on top of. You can't stay even with dual hardeners and a basic heavy repper activated because the SL with stacked damage mods will overwhelm all your defenses.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2	Posted - 2015.07.14 03:58:00 - [8] - Quote What fit were you using? With a complex hardener and an enhanced heavy shield extender I can shrug off most swarms and even try and fight them. The only ones that I have to run from regardless of resists and tank is the minmando with wikis. I have more of a problem with the fact that av v ads is balanced around a single turret dropship with tank shields and hardeners. There isnt really any interesting fitting options, you need an afterburner, you need a hardener and if you want that hardener to make an actual difference you need to fit an extender. This all means you have no fitting what so ever for side guns. Gunnnner fits do have to run constantly, you can't fit a good enough tank and you can't use a hardener because it blinds your gunners defeating the purpose of gimping your ship in the first place. I've been playing around with a solo dropship and its really fun to be able to actually fight against swarmers, fighting forge guns has always been fun and challenging. when a dropship actually fights back against swarms is really depressing. It's like they have no idea how to actually fight when their target is fighting back. Nothing about a swarm fight is fun, instead of being fun its just tedious and that has everything to do with there being no skill involved on the swarmers end. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.14 11:48:00 - [9] - Quote I'm running dual basic armor hardeners for a total of 80% resist and a basic heavy repper in the lows and an AB in the high. All levels of hardeners have the same resistance so it doesn't help to use higher tier, and I don't have the PG for a higher tier Repper even with my vehicle skills maxed out. That used to work a year back. Dual heavy Repoers used to keep up with swarms back then too, but have zero chance now.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 1	Posted - 2015.07.14 13:43:00 - [10] - Quote Skihids wrote: I'm running dual basic armor hardeners for a total of 80% resist and a basic heavy repper in the lows and an AB in the high. All levels of hardeners have the same resistance so it doesn't help to use higher tier, and I don't have the PG for a higher tier Repper even with my vehicle skills maxed out. That used to work a year back. Dual heavy Repoers used to keep up with swarms back then too, but have zero chance now. my advice: afterburner plate, rep, hardener try to keep you hardener activated before you engage. take advantage of your first attack, before there is any av on the field. equipment is more important than kills. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. "I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati

Balistyc Farshot MONSTER SYNERGY 297	Posted - 2015.07.14 14:36:00 - [11] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: What fit were you using? With a complex hardener and an enhanced heavy shield extender I can shrug off most swarms and even try and fight them. The only ones that I have to run from regardless of resists and tank is the minmando with wikis. I have more of a problem with the fact that av v ads is balanced around a single turret dropship with tank shields and hardeners. There isnt really any interesting fitting options, you need an afterburner, you need a hardener and if you want that hardener to make an actual difference you need to fit an extender. This all means you have no fitting what so ever for side guns. Gunnnner fits do have to run constantly, you can't fit a good enough tank and you can't use a hardener because it blinds your gunners defeating the purpose of gimping your ship in the first place. I've been playing around with a solo dropship and its really fun to be able to actually fight against swarmers, fighting forge guns has always been fun and challenging. when a dropship actually fights back against swarms is really depressing. It's like they have no idea how to actually fight when their target is fighting back. Nothing about a swarm fight is fun, instead of being fun its just tedious and that has everything to do with there being no skill involved on the swarmers end. I haven't ran an ADS in a while because I changed over to tanks when the new frames came in, but swarms shouldn't be a problem. You seem to think the ADS is an attack chopper. It isn't! Use it to strafe and push around infantry before dropping in a heavy, logi, and a couple of scouts/assaults. Those 4 will clean up any minmando rocking swarms and you get to see that he lost more isk in that one av fitting than you did in the whole ADS. I liked when the prices came down on all vehicles, so we need to stay away from this AV versus infantry discussion. It is in a great place right now. My tank can push around an objective unless I get greedy or stay in 1 place too long. Same with an ADS. If you get greedy, you are asking to be blown up. If an infantry man is behind cover and you are trying to maneuver to get that one kill, you are doing it wrong. Strafe!!! Fly around, drop in infantry, while your infantry engages, engage the infantry, then leave before 2 minutes has passed. This will see your ADS perform the hit and run/drop and run tactic it was meant to do. Vehicles have been solo beasts, but we need to see them as vehicles! BTW - You are lucky. My ADS used to get downed by tanks a lot lately, not swarms. Redline rail snipers!!! "Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!" Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
La Lore Sleipnier Grupo de Asalto Chacal Rise Of Legion. 367	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:12:00 - [12] - Quote HIT and RUN with ADS? How? I had that before nerf he ROF but now is no way, and I still fighting with ADS but now, right now EVERITHING can destroy a dropship, even if somebody throws a rolling stone from the ground Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos...
Billi Gene 564	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:31:00 - [13] - Quote Balistyc Farshot wrote: I haven't ran an ADS in a while because I changed over to tanks when the new frames came in, but swarms shouldn't be a problem. You seem to think the ADS is an attack chopper. It isn't! Use it to strafe and push around infantry before dropping in a heavy, logi, and a couple of scouts/assaults. Those 4 will clean up any minmando rocking swarms and you get to see that he lost more isk in that one av fitting than you did in the whole ADS. I liked when the prices came down on all vehicles, so we need to stay away from this AV versus infantry discussion. It is in a great place right now. My tank can push around an objective unless I get greedy or stay in 1 place too long. Same with an ADS. If you get greedy, you are asking to be blown up. If an infantry man is behind cover and you are trying to maneuver to get that one kill, you are doing it wrong. Strafe!!! Fly around, drop in infantry, while your infantry engages, engage the infantry, then leave before 2 minutes has passed. This will see your ADS perform the hit and run/drop and run tactic it was meant to do. Vehicles have been solo beasts, but we need to see them as vehicles! BTW - You are lucky. My ADS used to get downed by tanks a lot lately, not swarms. Redline rail snipers!!! my Adv Minmando(proto swarms+adv Assault Combat Rifle) fit costs 73k isk, are you sure you are talking about ADS? After all these years I think its safe to say that though CCP finally brought some sense to ground vehicles, drop ships (and their missing brethren) are beyond CCP's abilities to balance. Now if CCP could see their way to bringing in Light and Heavy aircraft we might see some balance (and some happier pilots). Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 2	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:41:00 - [14] - Quote Balistyc Farshot wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: What fit were you using? With a complex hardener and an enhanced heavy shield extender I can shrug off most swarms and even try and fight them. The only ones that I have to run from regardless of resists and tank is the minmando with wikis. I have more of a problem with the fact that av v ads is balanced around a single turret dropship with tank shields and hardeners. There isnt really any interesting fitting options, you need an afterburner, you need a hardener and if you want that hardener to make an actual difference you need to fit an extender. This all means you have no fitting what so ever for side guns. Gunnnner fits do have to run constantly, you can't fit a good enough tank and you can't use a hardener because it blinds your gunners defeating the purpose of gimping your ship in the first place. I've been playing around with a solo dropship and its really fun to be able to actually fight against swarmers, fighting forge guns has always been fun and challenging. when a dropship actually fights back against swarms is really depressing. It's like they have no idea how to actually fight when their target is fighting back. Nothing about a swarm fight is fun, instead of being fun its just tedious and that has everything to do with there being no skill involved on the swarmers end. I haven't ran an ADS in a while because I changed over to tanks when the new frames came in, but swarms shouldn't be a problem. You seem to think the ADS is an attack chopper. It isn't! Use it to strafe and push around infantry before dropping in a heavy, logi, and a couple of scouts/assaults. Those 4 will clean up any minmando rocking swarms and you get to see that he lost more isk in that one av fitting than you did in the whole ADS. I liked when the prices came down on all vehicles, so we need to stay away from this AV versus infantry discussion. It is in a great place right now. My tank can push around an objective unless I get greedy or stay in 1 place too long. Same with an ADS. If you get greedy, you are asking to be blown up. If an infantry man is behind cover and you are trying to maneuver to get that one kill, you are doing it wrong. Strafe!!! Fly around, drop in infantry, while your infantry engages, engage the infantry, then leave before 2 minutes has passed. This will see your ADS perform the hit and run/drop and run tactic it was meant to do. Vehicles have been solo beasts, but we need to see them as vehicles! BTW - You are lucky. My ADS used to get downed by tanks a lot lately, not swarms. Redline rail snipers!!! You seem to have missed the point of my argument. I'll make it very clear, av v ads fights should not only exist but should be fun and challenging on both sides. That is the case already for forges and plasma cannons but not for swarms. Second, I don't like that balance is based on solo ads and tanks and proper gunner built ships suffer greatly. I also miss creating interesting fits for different tasks instead of being locked into one of three fits. Strafe runs are great but we lack the firepower to preform them properly like in the days of old. Let's up ROF or, ideally bring back the cycled missile launchers (also letting us render at range would really help line up strafe runs) then I can rain hellfire again! I agree with you that av is pretty balanced against tanks, but we aren't talking about tanks now are we? Son, I've been flying dropships since closed beta and I've been flying gunner fit pythons since ads were introduced, I straffed redline tanks when they could hit us in our redline. Ive only just started playing around with a solo dropship and it is liberating in a way, though not as much fun as flying with my gunners and shock troopers that I have flown with for over two years. They can hit targets much more efficiently than I can because they are focused on that. However there are some problems with a gunner fit, such as hardeners blinding gunners, gunners exploding themselves, and the lack of staying power which makes fun fights against av hard to impossible (in the swarms case) Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
La Lore Sleipnier Grupo de Asalto Chacal Rise Of Legion. 367	Posted - 2015.07.14 15:51:00 - [15] - Quote Que parece que no nos enteramos, que aqui los buenos pilotos venimos de simuladores, SIMULADORES DE VUELO DE VERDAD, si nos quejamos de que las naves estan inutiles es porque estan inutiles que no os enterais panda de pitufos Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos...
Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.14 19:57:00 - [16] - Quote The original ships with gunners were more fun and the required teamwork good for the game. Unfortunately with squads of four that leaves three empty seats in public matches which makes transport attacks much less effective. The blinding effect of hardners is a real killer. Yes, it looks nice from the outside, but what designer would build in such a flaw? Rendering distances are a big problem for pilots. One must fly really low to spot infantry which complicates escape once the swarms start flying. In contrast infantry can spot a ship from very far off which gives them a solid initiative. It's silly that the least skilled auto-homing weapon in the game is the most effective.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 640	Posted - 2015.07.14 21:02:00 - [17] - Quote Skihids wrote: The promise was to be able to linger over the target for 30 seconds before having to run and hide. The reality is zero linger time when the first volley is launched. You simply can't be effective in the ADS if you can't stick around. That's why you don't see dropships used for more than getting on top of buildings that the Quake jumpers can't leap on top of. You can't stay even with dual hardeners and a basic heavy repper activated because the SL with stacked damage mods will overwhelm all your defenses. I still see plenty of drop ships even in PC there are pilots that can destroy any AV units before they even become a problem its more then fair to assume that most of the arguments being used are coming from unexperienced pilots if you activate your hardeners you can linger for that amount of time if you fly around using the terrain to your advantage I don't know many good pilots but I have come across some that seem unbeatable in a 1v1 situation even with proto swarms or experimental the drop ships could stand to be buffed a bit but giving them too much of anything would make them a real problem they are already good enough as it is and balancing them isn't so easy as being a pilot is a high risk high skill trade click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Dreis ShadowWeaver Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.07.14 21:39:00 - [18] - Quote All the people saying Swarms are fine are the ones who have never piloted an ADS in their entire lives... Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Recruitment requests received: 18
Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.15 00:57:00 - [19] - Quote I'm fitting a Python to see if I can take out a SL one on one. The Incubus isn't as nimble and I can't fly it like I did the Python. There was a fellow who made the advanced maneuver videos back before Fanfest 2014 who could do it.
Dreis ShadowWeaver Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.07.15 01:01:00 - [20] - Quote Skihids wrote: I'm fitting a Python to see if I can take out a SL one on one. The Incubus isn't as nimble and I can't fly it like I did the Python. There was a fellow who made the advanced maneuver videos back before Fanfest 2014 who could do it. He was able to do it then, but that was because ADSs weren't UP then as they are now. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel My Minja Blog Recruitment requests received: 18

CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 598	Posted - 2015.07.15 02:39:00 - [21] - Quote WellGÇª welcome back, Skihids. It's an interesting evolution you can see for Dust 514, but you can also see it's not all terrific yet. The "Waves of Opportunity" conceptGÇª has stumbled a bit for now. But I suspect that the concept will either be utterly abandoned (with no complaint from me, since I was never a supporter of the concept), or will be powerfully reaffirmed, once the Dropship-Progression system is hammered out. (It actually WAS started a few months ago, but the feuding and mob-violence in players' posts scared CCP badly enough to shake dentures out of mouths). Currently, any mountain of Armour you pack on a DS will be chewed up quickly by today's AV. I'd say the only DS fits that do well, regardless of how experienced your hands may be, are: a Caldari ADS thanks to its agility/speed as much as its Shielding, and a heavily-Armoured Gallente Transporter with more than 2500 passive Shield hp , (a fitting that only the lifetime-DS players like Skihids, Teebow, Gabriella-Grey, et al have the Vehicle-SP to build). The majority of vehicles I see floating in the matches can barely fit 5000 total ehp without either their Shields or their Armour maxing at less than 2000 hp. From what I used to read in the old threads from 2012, back then the Dropship's famed nemesis was the Proto Forge Gunner. He was out there, his second shot was death, and if you could outwit him, you were a top player. GÇªToday, the nemesis isGÇª Harpo Marx and his 10-Aur Swarm Launcher----not nearly so lethal as the 2012 ForgeGunner, but the same effective "obstacle" against you trying to access the map with your DS. Until CCP is able to sit down to a level-headed DS population (not the loopy, over-medicated, hurtful-mouthed mob of "pilots" that repeatedly derail every thread the devs try), the Dropship's Evolution in this game will be stuck in "pause". Do the best you can, Skihids, to stall for time until the DS's time comes. Good to have you back! Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 2	Posted - 2015.07.15 05:04:00 - [22] - Quote Skihids, contact me in game and I'll give you any help or tips you need. Pilots should stick together CPM 2 Candidate YouTube Pink Scramblers!
Skihids Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.15 05:39:00 - [23] - Quote So the Devs have recently attempted to work on dropships? Interesting. I couldn't get them to listen back in 2013/14. The base problem CCP has with vehicles is they don't have a main role outside slaying infantry, and as long as that holds true they have to balance vehicles one on one with suits. As long as a tank is piloted and gunned by a single player it acts as a mega-proto suit. Balancing on ISK is a no-go for multiple reasons, both rich corps and the inability for new players to get into the trade. I supported multi-crew vehicles which would let them have more power for the tradeoff of taking additional players off the field, but the solo tank drivers screamed too loud against it. Instead CCP went the other way and allowed drivers to pull turrets and seats off their vehicle. That's when we got the ADS as well. I actually preferred concentrating on flying and working with seasoned gunners on comms, but that's not much of a thing now as far as I can tell. Waves of opportunity was the only other way to balance vehicles and let them be stronger than a single suit. They could be superior for a time, then inferior for a time. What vehicles need are roles other than killing infantry. If those existed vehicles could have far stronger defenses vs infantry AV in trade for less vehicle to infantry effectiveness. Unfortunately the most sensible roles of transport or wall breaching don't exist due to PS3 limitations. The maps are simply too small and we don't have destructible terrain. The smaller squad size in pubs leaves too many vacant seats in the dropship for it to function as an attack troop carrier.


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"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.