DUST Search - Repurposing the Swarm Launcher

True Adamance wrote:

Sgt Kirk wrote:

Mina Longstrike wrote:

I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades.

While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods.

The Rockets damage profile should be Kinetic, which in this game I guess the closet thing we have to that would be the Hybrid Rail profile.

What about the unique Combat Rifle Profile?

Beyond that I don't see why Rockets cannot have an Explosive Profile as shot ranged high explosives while Missiles take on Kinetic as longer ranged penetrators.

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Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.25 22:25:00 - [1] - Quote I'm here to talk about the Swarm launcher and my problem with their purpose since I first saw them in 2012. If you are a dropship pilot you know what I'm talking about, the low risk high reward capabilities the weapon compared to your high risk, high reward vehicle. My personal thought is that missiles should be great at taking down aerial vehicles but there's a limit to that when you have an incredibly omni purpose such as the current swarm launcher; that's where I start to find a fundamental design flaw in the weapon. CCP has tried to balance the Swarm launcher to be decently effective against HAVs then effectively against Dropships, then both at the same time, then none, then both again and the cycle just goes on and on. To the point where I became tired of saying the same thing over and over again. BUT REJOICE, Rattati is here and actually has common sense, so, I choose to dig up one of my post from three years ago to fix swarm missile launchers and at the same time add more diversity in a way that also adds a bit of Lore and depth to the game. Swarm Launchers should be repurposed into three types. Swarm Rocket Launchers Light Swarm Missiles Heavy Swarm Missiles. Each type will have their own preferred area of operation but will not be restricted to what you can lock onto. The Rocket Swarm launcher would operate like a rocket launcher Single Fire, high RoF kinetic armor piercing projectiles. Fast and Accurate. These weapons are more armor piercing based and not explosive so they are high direct damage with low splash radius. The Light Swarm Launcher would be: High Guidance, fast acceleration missiles trading firepower for precision and reliability. Ideal for hitting lighter armored, fast moving target. The Heavy Swarm Launcher would be: Low Guidance, low acceleration missiles trading guidance for raw firepower. Ideal for targets with heavy defense. So there, you can adjust each of these swarms launchers accordingly and design them to where they work best when pitted against X Vehicle type. When it comes to broad ideas like that I like to know the general opinion before I bother with numbers. For a little extra credit we could also have different warheads for the missiles which would give them different damage profiles. Thoughts? opinions? Poo flinging? Tell me what you think. Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.25 23:03:00 - [2] - Quote Like! Also like the idea of a vehicle-mounted swarm variant. :: digging :: Here's the Talos post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2791438#post2791438 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.06.25 23:18:00 - [3] - Quote This is better than the utter Sh*t I came up with while trying to figure out swarms. Good concepts, we'll see if they can bear out. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.25 23:22:00 - [4] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Like! Also like the idea of a vehicle-mounted swarm variant. :: digging :: Here's the Talos post: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2791438#post2791438 That's how I imagined missiles working back in the old days. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 129	Posted - 2015.06.25 23:42:00 - [5] - Quote Omg, now I'm agreeing with ANOTHER Gallente?! At least it's been a month before such, +1. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
La Lore Sleipnier Grupo de Asalto Chacal Rise Of Legion. 341	Posted - 2015.06.26 01:26:00 - [6] - Quote +1 I'm agree with you bro. But we have a problem here: the kids will cry like pigs because they will need mora than a one accurate impact to take down an ADS, and CCP will increase damage, etc and the circle starts again. While CCP hear the stupid opinions from those who want to do every role without pay sp's, we the ADS pilots have no place in this game. Soy una hoja al viento a merced de los elementos...
Megaman Trigger Ready to Play 372	Posted - 2015.06.26 01:33:00 - [7] - Quote Would the Heavy Swarm be an actual Heavy weapon or just something like a Breach Light weapon? Can the Rocket be a Heavy AV weapon? Purifier. First Class.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:15:00 - [8] - Quote Makes too much sense: won't happen Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1	Posted - 2015.06.26 02:35:00 - [9] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Makes too much sense: won't happen The universal response to anything CCP. Short, concise and accurate. Sadly enough. My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.06.26 03:07:00 - [10] - Quote Good post. At this point it seems everyone agrees swarms need to be changed; it's nice to see lots of ideas on how to do that! A method I've been thinking about : Basically, reducing homing ability/accuracy, while increasing damage. Instead of being a fire and forget weapon, timing and aim would be much more important. Individually the missiles would be unstable and inaccurate after a certain distance. The whole reason we fire a volley is to ensure some missiles reach their target, but in Dust they just all hit no matter what. Rough math just for an example: When firing at a target : Up to 50 M away: 99% chance of each missile hitting 50 to 100: 75% 100 to 150: 50% If target is moving, that would make missiles slightly less likely to hit. This would add some skill. To make sure all your missiles hit, you'd be best to get close, and wait until they stop / slow down. It would also make the missiles feel like a volley of independent misses, which they are supposed to be. I also think it would be sweet when they miss a ground target, and scatter across the ground like a cluster bomb Official CPM Platform

SHADOWBlood ASSASSIN The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 252	Posted - 2015.06.26 03:35:00 - [11] - Quote How about we stick with these swarms that allow me to crush all opposing dropships? That sounds cool cause I don't like pilots ('Cept Shamarskii and Green Berry). Get your boots on the ground people! "You only need a hundred acres to have one helluva hood" `-Shadow`
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.26 04:04:00 - [12] - Quote I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades. While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.26 04:13:00 - [13] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades. While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods. The Rockets damage profile should be Kinetic, which in this game I guess the closet thing we have to that would be the Hybrid Rail profile. Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.06.26 04:20:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades. While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods. The Rockets damage profile should be Kinetic, which in this game I guess the closet thing we have to that would be the Hybrid Rail profile. What about the unique Combat Rifle Profile? Beyond that I don't see why Rockets cannot have an Explosive Profile as shot ranged high explosives while Missiles take on Kinetic as longer ranged penetrators. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.26 04:32:00 - [15] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Mina Longstrike wrote: I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades. While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods. The Rockets damage profile should be Kinetic, which in this game I guess the closet thing we have to that would be the Hybrid Rail profile. What about the unique Combat Rifle Profile? Beyond that I don't see why Rockets cannot have an Explosive Profile as shot ranged high explosives while Missiles take on Kinetic as longer ranged penetrators. To be honest id prefer it if we had a profile variant for every missile type in this thread. Example. If you want a kinetic profile missile you'd select [Swarm Launcher ] as you would and once you're in that tab you select the [Scourge] missile type and in that tab you have the [Swarm Rocket Launcher] [ Light Swarm Launcher ] [ Heavy Swarm Launcher] If you wants an Electromagnetic warhead to do 20% -20% or maybe a lessoned version to make it clear that this tech isn't their own specialty. So I guess a laser based warhead projectile could be 15% -20% idk. I'm tired now and just got back from a damn good day. I'm actually just listening to music in my car with the sun roof open feeling the warm breath of the summer night. Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.26 18:14:00 - [16] - Quote Just saying, Rocket Launchers in DUST.... Also, Minmatar Rocket Launchers could be the RPG equivalent. Instead of Accurate and High Direct Damage it's "inaccurate" and High Splash Damage compared to the Swarm Rocket Launcher. Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
Terry Webber Molon Labe. RUST415 759	Posted - 2015.06.27 02:31:00 - [17] - Quote Does the Rocket Swarm Launcher not have a homing function? Would it work more like the Plasma Cannon? Inertial Booster Module Vehicle Installation
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.06.27 03:32:00 - [18] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Does the Rocket Swarm Launcher not have a homing function? Would it work more like the Plasma Cannon? In my mind I'd have it without a homing feature, like the plasma cannon. You can't really have a direct impact kinetic weapon with homing, that would be explosive. If you had an explosive warhead then a homing feature might work because you don't have to be directly on the target Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
Echo 1991 Dead Man's Game 866	Posted - 2015.06.27 10:08:00 - [19] - Quote The only problem with the swarm launcher is how fast it locks on. increase the lock on time and you fix a lot of problems with it. You have to remember it cannot hurt infantry unless somehow they get in front of the missile. When locking on you are defenceless, which is hardly low risk. Another thing that might help is changing the damage profile, that way caldari commandos get the bonus to their own weapon and it deals slightly less damage to armor tanks. It doesnt need any significant things changed to balance it. Pilots just dont like the fact it locks onto them and that they have to fly off to escape them. Wanna play eve?
Sylwester Dziewiecki 480	Posted - 2015.07.05 15:22:00 - [20] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: ... Let's start from giving DS and HAV pilots(**** LAV) to defend them self from Swarms with some kind of smokescreen or anything else that will disrupt auto-guide mechanic of swarmsjavascript:if (typeof posting=='undefined'\|\|posting!=true) {posting=true;__doPostBack('forum$ctl00$PostReply','');} G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido

Sgt Kirk Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.30 01:45:00 - [21] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: ... Let's start from giving DS and HAV pilots(**** LAV) to defend them self from Swarms with some kind of smokescreen or anything else that will disrupt auto-guide mechanic of swarmsjavascript:if (typeof posting=='undefined'\|\|posting!=true) {posting=true;__doPostBack('forum$ctl00$PostReply','');} I had this problem with Dropships from the freakin beginning. How do you introduce Lock on Missiles in a game and not include any countermeasure? That's just poor, poor forethought. They could at least rip off the Active Scanner Vehicle asset and disable missiles within x meters between "Pulses" Sgt Kirk's Official Propaganda Youtube Channel
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.30 02:28:00 - [22] - Quote Base swarms should be balanced against hitting tanks. Lower speed and acceleration, wider turning, and harder hitting missiles than now. Assault swarms should be balanced against hitting ADS. More speed and acceleration, tighter turning, and lower damage than now. Each vehicle has their own swarm launcher designed to hit them. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 990	Posted - 2015.07.30 05:28:00 - [23] - Quote Also, no nano reload and higher alpha. You don't hit that target the first time then your sucky butt should have to run back to the depot. MY CPM2 PLATFORM
Drake Whiteblade D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 11	Posted - 2015.07.30 11:59:00 - [24] - Quote So what happens when you go up against a very tanky assault dropship. The heavy would be too slow and the light would be too weak and the single missile just wouldnt be enough.
Vulpes Dolosus Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 3	Posted - 2015.07.30 13:54:00 - [25] - Quote Drake Whiteblade wrote: So what happens when you go up against a very tanky assault dropship. The heavy would be too slow and the light would be too weak and the single missile just wouldnt be enough. Lol, tanky assault dropship. But regular dropships could be an issue. They aren't quite as slow as some people will tell you and can get a significant tank. This may boil down to a numbers issue, depending on how each swarm launcher is set up. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.30 14:43:00 - [26] - Quote Drake Whiteblade wrote: So what happens when you go up against a very tanky assault dropship. The heavy would be too slow and the light would be too weak and the single missile just wouldnt be enough. A tanky ADS? What? Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 728	Posted - 2015.07.31 01:22:00 - [27] - Quote Mina Longstrike wrote: I'd really like to see the swarm be re-designed to function more like the plasma cannon... Setting its damage profile to hybrid, and giving certain 'variant' swarm launchers a small aoe that homes onto vehicles like AV grenades. While swarms have always been problematic, I also feel that there needs to be some sort of further purpose or role to vehicles (which are severely lacking in roles other than 'taxi'), because a large part of the screaming for overpowered AV weapons comes from a problem with vehicles quite often getting buffed to a status of being overpowered sky-gods/tank-gods. I prefer this having mutiple versions of the same weapon makes for complications whats to stop multiple people using LAV swarms against drop ships or any of the other variants for that matter it also makes it harder for a pilot to know who has what and what to avoid I like the idea of aiming in the general direction and if the missiles get withing x distance they lock on like an AV nade click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's


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