DUST Search - Post Level-5 Content Discussion

Leither Yiltron wrote:

I'm really not a fan of this entire idea set, and hope we don't use up too much dev time speculating about it over other things.

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, adding more gear, especially in a way that breaks from the paradigm of the current skill tree, only lumps onto complication for newer players. Plus, don't we have enough balance problems trying to bring our current batch of suits into line without trying to suss out an entire new-and-wonky clutch of side grades? This would also be content that's only really accessible to people who have a bunch of SP, almost like officer suits.

I don't make a habit of going on the forums just to be a negative nancy, but I just don't see this stuff working out without major gear redesign. There are a litany of other changes, big and small, that are both more clearly improvements to the game and more pressingly in demand. Many more of Dust's problems are about things to do, either extant or possible, not a lack of things to wear. If we're looking to add more gear-based content, I'd think the missing gaps in the current weapons paradigm should take higher priority than grafting on suits to the completed suit tree.

On a different note, the skill tree absolutely could be clearer. Confusion in the skill tree starts on day one, when you're required to figure out that the root skill in the Dropsuits tree is a completely non-functional prerequisite put there so that the tree looks pretty.

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Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 10:19:00 - [1] - Quote Had a chat with CCP Rattati about what can and cannot be done for Post Level-5 content. Quote: Aeon Amadi: How hard would it be to implement Pirate Dropsuits as post-level 5 content that requires two different racial dropsuit skills? I.E: Guristas Assault would require Caldari Assault 1 and Gallente Assault 1 CCP Rattati: I have thought of this as well, but not sure that we can combine cross skills Aeon Amadi: Would probably need to work on moving away from hard-coded bonuses and pre-requisites to something more dynamic CCP Rattati: ye i think there is a one to one relation ship between skills and skills and skills and items this was done to simplify and not have cross layered skills What this means is that while a suit can have certain Skill Prerequisites it cannot retain bonuses from two different skills. This also means that we cannot hybridize skills (A skill requiring two different skills, for instance) in order to accomplish that goal either. It also looks kinda screwy on the Skills Menu. In order for a suit to work in this manner, we'd have to have a separate skill that branched off, linearly, from another skill. Quote: Aeon Amadi: So, out of curiosity, what is the barrier behind post-level 5 content lik the pirate suits? I know you said that cross-suit skill bonuses weren't applicable but it doesn't even have to have that, maybe something further down the line after Assaults that have different bonuses? CCP Rattati: it's reltatively easy to add assault plus skills and gear Aeon Amadi: Ah, so, like, a 'Marauder' suit that requires level 5 Cal Assault and level 5 Shield Upgrades or something? That could be interesting. Im mostly asking to get a feel for what sort of criteria to look for and meet when discussing ideas/concepts for that sort of content. CCP Rattati: you can just add a "dropsuit specializaition skill" after the current one from level 1 to 5 and attach new suits to that skill+ From what I gathered from this, we can have 'Specialization' suits that require skills therein after. This could either be a completely separate role altogether (such as a Caldari Marauder Dropsuit that comes after Assault) or simply a Dropsuit Specialization that adds in a sort of 'Assault +' sort of deal (my best guess is they would be something like Assault Ck.1's instead of Assault Ck.0's). Essentially, this. So the general goal for Post Level-5 content is that we could make suits that have different functions and battlefield roles stemming from their predecessors. A 'Spectre' suit, for example, could be a Medium Frame that requires Assault Suits level 5 and has better Cloaking Field access while still retaining the Profile of a Medium Frame, essentially making it a camping demon But this is just an example. The easiest ideas are stuff like the above, in which an Assault suit and a Scout suit have been blended together to create a new role that - while probably underutilized - would make for a different experience. Essentially taking two pre-existing battlefield roles and blending them together in some way to make them pseudo-unique. Another easy idea is to hybridize combat philosophies (basically, pirate suits). Think of a shield-tanking Caldari Assault with bonuses toward Hybrid - Blaster or Projectile weaponry, for instance. Alternatively there are roles that simply don't exist yet but potentially could. Stuff like 'Grenadiers' which get bonuses to grenades and nanohives, just as an example. What are your thoughts and ideas? Vote #TeamGreen Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 17	Posted - 2015.06.23 10:25:00 - [2] - Quote hawt Makes me want to go theorycraft some suits. "To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
Z Vatican Hentai Federation 38	Posted - 2015.06.23 10:55:00 - [3] - Quote I love it. The reload bonus is nice and all on Cal assaults but to be honest I'd like something a Cal assault can actually shield tank or increased damage. CEO of Hentai Fedeartion / *Caldari is Life- State Peacekeeper- Enemies of the Gallente*
DiablosMajora 184	Posted - 2015.06.23 11:04:00 - [4] - Quote Sounds like a first step towards expensive but specialized Tech-II suits. Roles, roles, roles Prepare your angus
William Harold highland marines 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 11:15:00 - [5] - Quote This was a well-thought out Q&A. I like where it's going and I think others will, as well. Keep those ideas flowing. "Your penis just got fluxed." - Unholy Hategore
DiablosMajora 184	Posted - 2015.06.23 12:43:00 - [6] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: Sounds like a first step towards expensive but specialized Tech-II suits. Roles, roles, roles On the subject of roles, I like the thought of possibly expanding the cloak to other suit sizes. Black-Ops Heavies and Spec-Ops Assaults come to mind! I also feel that this could open a larger discussion about suits/roles and how they are supposed to function on the field... A concrete and on paper definition about what they are supposed to do, how they generate WP, and how they benefit the squad and team. With this foundation laid, you can then branch out to specialized roles and perhaps branch off into unique functions, like a Black Ops heavy or Spec Ops assault. Prepare your angus
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 14:26:00 - [7] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: DiablosMajora wrote: Sounds like a first step towards expensive but specialized Tech-II suits. Roles, roles, roles On the subject of roles, I like the thought of possibly expanding the cloak to other suit sizes. Black-Ops Heavies and Spec-Ops Assaults come to mind! I also feel that this could open a larger discussion about suits/roles and how they are supposed to function on the field... A concrete and on paper definition about what they are supposed to do, how they generate WP, and how they benefit the squad and team. With this foundation laid, you can then branch out to specialized roles and perhaps branch off into unique functions, like a Black Ops heavy or Spec Ops assault. I'm down for it but we'd have to get real creative with what they sacrifice. I really want the cloaking device to be used on other frames but at the same time I don't want the Scouts to lose their effectiveness, so if the cloaking device -did- come to another of the other frames as a dedicated part of their role they probably wouldn't get the profile dampening benefit unless they applied it via modules. Even still, they'd have to have lower EHP, mobility, etc to make-up for that sacrifice. Any role that we create has to be unique or if it isn't it shouldn't supercede or over-shadow currently existing roles. Vote #TeamGreen Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
DiablosMajora 184	Posted - 2015.06.23 15:16:00 - [8] - Quote You've inspired me Aeon, I'll come up with some spreadsheets either tonight or tomorrow and toss em in the thread for GD piranhas to devour. And can you talk to the Ratman about dropping installations in battle with WP (or other resources)? I haven't heard anything about this in what feels like years :( Prepare your angus
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:03:00 - [9] - Quote DiablosMajora wrote: You've inspired me Aeon, I'll come up with some spreadsheets either tonight or tomorrow and toss em in the thread for GD piranhas to devour. And can you talk to the Ratman about dropping installations in battle with WP (or other resources)? I haven't heard anything about this in what feels like years :( I doubt it would happen, honestly. Not because it is a bad idea but because it'd require intensive dev-work to get it done =\ Vote #TeamGreen Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 186	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:12:00 - [10] - Quote I've spoken to many new players and they're always confused about the skill tree. This would just add on to the confusion but I think it would be neat to have more roles. We need like a tutorial to explain it in my honest opinion. I am the Clown of Ass or am I the Ass of Clown... o.O Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ

god clone Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 8	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:17:00 - [11] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: I've spoken to many new players and they're always confused about the skill tree. This would just add on to the confusion but I think it would be neat to have more roles. We need like a tutorial to explain it in my honest opinion. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China puncake? Something about something
Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 186	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:20:00 - [12] - Quote god clone wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: I've spoken to many new players and they're always confused about the skill tree. This would just add on to the confusion but I think it would be neat to have more roles. We need like a tutorial to explain it in my honest opinion. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China puncake? Cookies. I am the Clown of Ass or am I the Ass of Clown... o.O Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:24:00 - [13] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: I've spoken to many new players and they're always confused about the skill tree. This would just add on to the confusion but I think it would be neat to have more roles. We need like a tutorial to explain it in my honest opinion. O.o? Not sure that the skill tree could get much more clear, lol. Not really my forte, honestly. Vote #TeamGreen Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
DiablosMajora 184	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:47:00 - [14] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DiablosMajora wrote: You've inspired me Aeon, I'll come up with some spreadsheets either tonight or tomorrow and toss em in the thread for GD piranhas to devour. And can you talk to the Ratman about dropping installations in battle with WP (or other resources)? I haven't heard anything about this in what feels like years :( I doubt it would happen, honestly. Not because it is a bad idea but because it'd require intensive dev-work to get it done =\ If you're referring to installation drops, I've suggested having various predefined locations on the map and selecting something to drop in on that location. We already have OMS games that appear to have timers on installation drop-ins, so I would think slapping a WP requirement on a drop and selecting the predefined location would br relatively easy to implement. My 0.02 ISK Prepare your angus
Yokal Bob Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:55:00 - [15] - Quote Yay something else for the community to cry over good idea btw Vote Dust for PS4
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.06.23 16:55:00 - [16] - Quote I'm really not a fan of this entire idea set, and hope we don't use up too much dev time speculating about it over other things. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, adding more gear, especially in a way that breaks from the paradigm of the current skill tree, only lumps onto complication for newer players. Plus, don't we have enough balance problems trying to bring our current batch of suits into line without trying to suss out an entire new-and-wonky clutch of side grades? This would also be content that's only really accessible to people who have a bunch of SP, almost like officer suits. I don't make a habit of going on the forums just to be a negative nancy, but I just don't see this stuff working out without major gear redesign. There are a litany of other changes, big and small, that are both more clearly improvements to the game and more pressingly in demand. Many more of Dust's problems are about things to do, either extant or possible, not a lack of things to wear. If we're looking to add more gear-based content, I'd think the missing gaps in the current weapons paradigm should take higher priority than grafting on suits to the completed suit tree. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Yokal Bob Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:18:00 - [17] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: I'm really not a fan of this entire idea set, and hope we don't use up too much dev time speculating about it over other things. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, adding more gear, especially in a way that breaks from the paradigm of the current skill tree, only lumps onto complication for newer players. Plus, don't we have enough balance problems trying to bring our current batch of suits into line without trying to suss out an entire new-and-wonky clutch of side grades? This would also be content that's only really accessible to people who have a bunch of SP, almost like officer suits. I don't make a habit of going on the forums just to be a negative nancy, but I just don't see this stuff working out without major gear redesign. There are a litany of other changes, big and small, that are both more clearly improvements to the game and more pressingly in demand. Many more of Dust's problems are about things to do, either extant or possible, not a lack of things to wear. If we're looking to add more gear-based content, I'd think the missing gaps in the current weapons paradigm should take higher priority than grafting on suits to the completed suit tree. On a different note, the skill tree absolutely could be clearer. Confusion in the skill tree starts on day one, when you're required to figure out that the root skill in the Dropsuits tree is a completely non-functional prerequisite put there so that the tree looks pretty. QQ allow nothing to those damn veterans 200mil sp? ok heres an mlt pistol you forgot to skill into. lawl Vote Dust for PS4
Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 186	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:24:00 - [18] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: I've spoken to many new players and they're always confused about the skill tree. This would just add on to the confusion but I think it would be neat to have more roles. We need like a tutorial to explain it in my honest opinion. O.o? Not sure that the skill tree could get much more clear, lol. Not really my forte, honestly. I dunno either... Some of them even told me they don't know how to use their equipment slots... No wonder we have special blueberries. I am the Clown of Ass or am I the Ass of Clown... o.O Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Commander Noctus Gallente Loyalist 238	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:34:00 - [19] - Quote Honestly, this is the sort of stuff I want. While I really would enjoy my Sister of Eve suit, a Marauder suit is a much better alternative gameplay-wise. That being said, this Post-5 stuff right now is exactly like Nolan's Batman. They're the suits we deserve, but not the ones we need right now. We should focus on making the suits we have now better than bringing in new ones to mess everything up. Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 186	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:36:00 - [20] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Honestly, this is the sort of stuff I want. While I really would enjoy my Sister of Eve suit, a Marauder suit is a much better alternative gameplay-wise. That being said, this Post-5 stuff right now is exactly like Nolan's Batman. They're the suits we deserve, but not the ones we need right now. We should focus on making the suits we have now better than bringing in new ones to mess everything up. I agree and besides.. that power core idea is to get rid of suits for more RAM. Why do that then put more suits in that may just counter the power core effect. I am the Clown of Ass or am I the Ass of Clown... o.O Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ

Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 335	Posted - 2015.06.23 17:38:00 - [21] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Alternatively there are roles that simply don't exist yet but potentially could. Stuff like 'Grenadiers' which get bonuses to grenades and nanohives, just as an example. What are your thoughts and ideas? give me a suit that has nothing but grande slots, if possible +5 grenades per level 1 nade slot at std 2 slots at ADV and 3 at proto (if possible so I can carry the 3 different granade types and switch between them as if they were weapons) I think this suit should also have high melee damage and resistance to explosives +10% resistance to explosive damage per level and a base melee that matches a commando, running speed should be somewhere between an assault and a scout https://dust514.com/recruit/kWK05m/
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.06.23 19:06:00 - [22] - Quote It was said that 50% of the playerbase is an influx of players entering and leaving the game while the other 50% are veterans who stubbornly play and simply won't leave. The numbers have been bleeding out over the past two years and there have been plenty of efforts to bring new players up with Aurum on log-in being the most recent, daily missions, salvage boxes/keys, match-maker changes, etc. etc. The list goes on and on yet we're still bleeding players. So you have to ask, at what point do we ease on the brakes with the NPE and start to cater a bit more to the players that have already and still shown their dedication? It is much easier to throw the veterans a bone and then go back to the NPE focus than it is to try and convince newer players to stick around when they're having to compete against those same veterans. The only thing fresh that Veterans have gotten to play with in recent times are new heavies/scouts back in Uprising 1.8 almost a year and a half ago, unless we want to consider the HAV re-hash. If you exclude all of that a lot of veterans feel that the only bone we've gotten recently was the Warbarges which wound up being a cash-sink because of how expensive the upgrades are. I've done the math on it and if a person logs in every day, caps out every week, and maintains constant use of stacked boosters - they'd have every skill at level 5 in just under a year from now. That is not a lot of time, especially when you consider that there are players running around like myself with 75m SP and others with more than that (one player told me they had 115m SP). Last I checked, the game only had 207,285,480 total SP. Which means that a player can start the game -today- and if they stack all their regular boosters and log-in every day, hitting their active cap every week, it'd take them 1.69 years from brand-new character to having all skills to level 5. That's not all -infantry- or all -vehicles- or all -weapons- to level 5, that is literally running out of content with which to unlock at all. For a guy like me? Would take 1.09 years. That aforementioned 115m SP player? Nine months. This isn't even taking into account SP from Daily Missions or the potential for Omega Boosters, this is what you can buy right now on the market and do through normal gameplay. So we can spent the next year working on NPE and hope to god that something will work or we can take a bit of time out to throw the vets' a bone and give them something else to do besides unlock things they'll likely never use to begin with. I don't think it is much to ask. Vote #TeamGreen Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
Nirwanda Vaughns 1	Posted - 2015.06.23 19:21:00 - [23] - Quote Racial suit specialization skills? x12 multiplier but something like Gal Assault Specialization - 1hps armour repair amount per level/5% suit armour repair rate per level Caldari Assault SPecialization - 5% reduction scoped kick of light rail weaponry Amarr Assault Specialization - 1% armour HP per level Minmatar Assault specialization - 5% reload speed per level things liek that which will make the suits more powerful but at a lot of invested SP. the same could be done with weapons to allow better performance of AV, i've said many times about Swarm specializations to increase lock range by 25m per level and increase flight time and flight speed by 5 or 10% per level each skill. sure things will get powerful but it allows players to be more specializaed in roles. Minmatar commando specialization could be +1 RE or AV nade carried to further tailor its AV role and so on You'll never have enough ISK to buy my C-II BPO
Russel Mendoza Klandatu 173	Posted - 2015.06.24 01:24:00 - [24] - Quote if i were to go with you thinking, i think i can get this dropsuit, lvl 5 caldari sentinel + lvl 5 caldari commando = caldari vanguard dropsuit. 3 high slot, 3 low slot, 1 granade and 1 equipment slot. 1 heavy weapon and 1 light weapon. sentinel shield and armor rate, commando damage bonus to both weapons. yup, you got my full attention and support, pal. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.


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