DUST Search - Power core theory test

Maken Tosch wrote:

Regis Blackbird wrote:

P14GU3 wrote:

Regis Blackbird wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second.

Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust?

Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache.

Somehow I doubt that.
Think of it. If every suite that exists in Dust loads into every battle regardless of the players, we would see a fairly even performance from Acadamy up to PC, which we don't.

Acadamy is running fairly smooth while PC is... well...not.
Don't you think that's strange? A PC battle is basically no difference from a Scirmish match, so why do they experience the frame rate lag as they obviously do sometimes?

Unless CCP have totally different code to run these specific matches, they "should in theory" be no different than pubs and FW regarding performance (exluding potential latency lag).

One theory could be that people run very diversified top tier suites in these games, which will consume more resources...but that's hardly the only reason.

It is possibly that the Academy matches do not bother to load up every possible suit in the game because the new players clearly don't have the SP necessary to field anything remotely near Advanced, let alone Prototype. By the time they get enough SP for ADV gear, they are most likely to have graduated from the Academy already and into the normal pub matches. There is no point in loading up every possibly ADV and PRO suit in the game in an Academy when none of the new players even have the skills to use them.

EDIT: Before the update that caused our alts in the same account to automatically skip the Academy upon creation, I was able to create a new alt that began in the academy. I was only in the Academy for just 3 matches before the system decided I was too good for the Academy and decided to throw me back into the sharks where I belong. I'm sure legitimate new players took longer to graduate, but probably not long enough to get into ADV gear by then.

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Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 15:46:00 - [1] - Quote So from what I understand we hope to gain performance in game to free up memory, RAM, "in game". The multiple assets not loaded in game dont effect "in game" performance because it's all stored on the client and not loaded into memory.... So to test this theory, what if we q-synched a FW match with fresh alts with only starter fits and no other suits in the fitting screen. This would show, to my understanding, if having less suits would help the performance and by how much... Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 895	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:32:00 - [2] - Quote Good idea! I volunteer.
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 16	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:37:00 - [3] - Quote Academy matches have fairly great frame rate. "Breakin, PS3's and PS4's can't mate. They're incompatible. Unlike Apache's and Cappuccino machines." - *Cat wisdom*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:42:00 - [4] - Quote You need to get a majority of the team into the same match. Doesn't matter if you get four newbs in but the rest of both teams have loadouts like me. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 895	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:52:00 - [5] - Quote Been thinking about this, and I don't think new Alts are the way to go. To really test this, we need to get as close as possible to a theoretical post-tiericide setup. As Cat Merc said, Academy matches are usually fairly good... But that could be due to the limited suites (starter fits) and modules. Therefore, both teams need to go full proto (since this will probably be the slot layout in the future). But FW is still a perfect place to test this. Most players playing for a faction "usually" have proto level of that faction. They just need to agree on specific suites that everybody play (let's say the normal Caldari Assault, Scout, Heavy Ck.0), and let them fit them as they wish. This will be the closest approximation of what the powercore/tiericide will look like. The goal is to have roughly 8 unique suites in the battle (4 on each side).
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 895	Posted - 2015.05.22 17:59:00 - [6] - Quote Thinking more about this (dam you Bright Steel for bringing this up!! ) PC would be the best place. - It normally have the greatest lag, so any positive effect will be more visible there. - Much easier to setup and arrange matches.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 18:29:00 - [7] - Quote But does the game preload the suits in our fitting menus? Would we need to only have one suit in the fiting scene? Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.22 18:35:00 - [8] - Quote This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 18:40:00 - [9] - Quote When and where? You got a chat for this? !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 897	Posted - 2015.05.22 22:39:00 - [10] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust?

P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 22:45:00 - [11] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust? Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 897	Posted - 2015.05.23 08:07:00 - [12] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust? Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache. Somehow I doubt that. Think of it. If every suite that exists in Dust loads into every battle regardless of the players, we would see a fairly even performance from Acadamy up to PC, which we don't. Acadamy is running fairly smooth while PC is... well...not. Don't you think that's strange? A PC battle is basically no difference from a Scirmish match, so why do they experience the frame rate lag as they obviously do sometimes? Unless CCP have totally different code to run these specific matches, they "should in theory" be no different than pubs and FW regarding performance (exluding potential latency lag). One theory could be that people run very diversified top tier suites in these games, which will consume more resources...but that's hardly the only reason.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 12:21:00 - [13] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Agree. PSN: RationalSpark
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:12:00 - [14] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust? Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache. Somehow I doubt that. Think of it. If every suite that exists in Dust loads into every battle regardless of the players, we would see a fairly even performance from Acadamy up to PC, which we don't. Acadamy is running fairly smooth while PC is... well...not. Don't you think that's strange? A PC battle is basically no difference from a Scirmish match, so why do they experience the frame rate lag as they obviously do sometimes? Unless CCP have totally different code to run these specific matches, they "should in theory" be no different than pubs and FW regarding performance (exluding potential latency lag). One theory could be that people run very diversified top tier suites in these games, which will consume more resources...but that's hardly the only reason. I think PC has to do with a lot of other factors. Some PC matches I get 2 fps, others I get 30. I don't think it is because of the suits the enemy wears, but more about their region, the map we are on, ect. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:15:00 - [15] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust? Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache. Somehow I doubt that. Think of it. If every suite that exists in Dust loads into every battle regardless of the players, we would see a fairly even performance from Acadamy up to PC, which we don't. Acadamy is running fairly smooth while PC is... well...not. Don't you think that's strange? A PC battle is basically no difference from a Scirmish match, so why do they experience the frame rate lag as they obviously do sometimes? Unless CCP have totally different code to run these specific matches, they "should in theory" be no different than pubs and FW regarding performance (exluding potential latency lag). One theory could be that people run very diversified top tier suites in these games, which will consume more resources...but that's hardly the only reason. It is possibly that the Academy matches do not bother to load up every possible suit in the game because the new players clearly don't have the SP necessary to field anything remotely near Advanced, let alone Prototype. By the time they get enough SP for ADV gear, they are most likely to have graduated from the Academy already and into the normal pub matches. There is no point in loading up every possibly ADV and PRO suit in the game in an Academy when none of the new players even have the skills to use them. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 897	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:30:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This would not work. From what I understand, every suit is loaded into every match regardless of what is actually deployed because the chance it could be deployed any second. Every suite in people's inventories, or every suite in Dust? Every suit in dust. Think of it as the cache file for a video game on your PC. This isn't about the number of suits in any given match, but the number of suits in the cache. Somehow I doubt that. Think of it. If every suite that exists in Dust loads into every battle regardless of the players, we would see a fairly even performance from Acadamy up to PC, which we don't. Acadamy is running fairly smooth while PC is... well...not. Don't you think that's strange? A PC battle is basically no difference from a Scirmish match, so why do they experience the frame rate lag as they obviously do sometimes? Unless CCP have totally different code to run these specific matches, they "should in theory" be no different than pubs and FW regarding performance (exluding potential latency lag). One theory could be that people run very diversified top tier suites in these games, which will consume more resources...but that's hardly the only reason. It is possibly that the Academy matches do not bother to load up every possible suit in the game because the new players clearly don't have the SP necessary to field anything remotely near Advanced, let alone Prototype. By the time they get enough SP for ADV gear, they are most likely to have graduated from the Academy already and into the normal pub matches. There is no point in loading up every possibly ADV and PRO suit in the game in an Academy when none of the new players even have the skills to use them. EDIT: Before the update that caused our alts in the same account to automatically skip the Academy upon creation, I was able to create a new alt that began in the academy. I was only in the Academy for just 3 matches before the system decided I was too good for the Academy and decided to throw me back into the sharks where I belong. I'm sure legitimate new players took longer to graduate, but probably not long enough to get into ADV gear by then. Based on what we know (or think we know) about how inefficient Dust was built to handle multiple suites and models, do you honestly think CCP would have programmed this (very smart) separation of Acadamy vs rest of the game logic? My bet (unless somebody gives me a quote from a dev) is that each players inventory is loaded into the game. That would make sense to me since it's a common system, and would explain why Acadamy matches are better.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2015.05.23 14:39:00 - [17] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: [...] Based on what we know (or think we know) about how inefficient Dust was built to handle multiple suites and models, do you honestly think CCP would have programmed this (very smart) separation of Acadamy vs rest of the game logic? My bet (unless somebody gives me a quote from a dev) is that each players inventory is loaded into the game. That would make sense to me since it's a common system, and would explain why Acadamy matches are better. In that case, what was the point of being able to hold 30 different fittings per player then if that is what was hindering it? Might as well cut it down to 10 or something like that but we know for a fact that no one will accept that. And what about players who decide to create an additional fitting while in a match? What about players who have maxed out their 30-suit capacity due to being a Jack of All Trades? I'm already reaching that capacity after cross training out of the Proto Minscout and Proto Amarr scout into Minmatar Assault & Sentinel, Gallente Commando, Logistics & Scout, Amarr Sentinel, and Caldari Scout. That is a lot of suits of various tiers to play around with. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 897	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:06:00 - [18] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: [...] Based on what we know (or think we know) about how inefficient Dust was built to handle multiple suites and models, do you honestly think CCP would have programmed this (very smart) separation of Acadamy vs rest of the game logic? My bet (unless somebody gives me a quote from a dev) is that each players inventory is loaded into the game. That would make sense to me since it's a common system, and would explain why Acadamy matches are better. In that case, what was the point of being able to hold 30 different fittings per player then if that is what was hindering it? Might as well cut it down to 10 or something like that but we know for a fact that no one will accept that. And what about players who decide to create an additional fitting while in a match? What about players who have maxed out their 30-suit capacity due to being a Jack of All Trades? I'm already reaching that capacity after cross training out of the Proto Minscout and Proto Amarr scout into Minmatar Assault & Sentinel, Gallente Commando, Logistics & Scout, Amarr Sentinel, and Caldari Scout. That is a lot of suits of various tiers to play around with. PS: Quote: do you honestly think CCP would have programmed this (very smart) separation of Acadamy vs rest of the game logic? Considering that we now have CCP Rattati? It is very possible, though not yet confirmed. It sounds like we actually talk about the same thing. Let's not argue about this anymore, since it's quite pointless... Regardless of the implementation (All suites in game, inventory or loadouts) the test that the OP proposed would be interesting. We simply don't have enough information to predict what the outcome would be if it could be arranged. Personally I'm willing to participate, but if it involves PC matches some CEO needs to set things up. Perhaps D.UNI could contribute?...I simply don't know... What I DO know however, is how I would arrange the test (feasible or not) Match #1: Both teams play on their mains with the current loadouts and fittings (as today) Match #2: Both teams agree on 10 specific suites everybody will run (can still fit as they like), but keep their normal loadouts in inventory (but does not deploy them) Match #3: Both teams delete all other loadouts than the agreed 10 in their inventory. You reset your PS3 before each game to get a baseline. Post match the observed framerate is reported.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:07:00 - [19] - Quote As I understand it from Rattati, every coloured variant of every suit ever made are loaded into the game regardless of if you have them in your inventory or not. This is so you can see them being used by others. This data includes animation frames for each one. The Skin System means that only each of the three racial frames need loading to begin with, each variant is version of these 12 base models with a 'default' skin or one you're paid for or found in salvage. That skin is then simply applied to whichever of the 12 base frames the suit is based on. This is obviously a huge reduction in memory footprint the game has. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 898	Posted - 2015.05.23 15:08:00 - [20] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: As I understand it from Rattati, every coloured variant of every suit ever made are loaded into the game regardless of if you have them in your inventory or not. This is so you can see them being used by others. This data includes animation frames for each one. The Skin System means that only each of the three racial frames need loading to begin with, each variant is version of these 12 base models with a 'default' skin or one you're paid for or found in salvage. That skin is then simply applied to whichever of the 12 base frames the suit is based on. This is obviously a huge reduction in memory footprint the game has. OK, I stand corrected. Edit: thanks for stopping by Kevall



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