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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 19:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
The blaster turret can probably dig through 2000-3000 of my shields before the shield hardener is up (My primary defense) which is a major issue. Armor tanks ,on the other hand, get a warning because they have shield as a buffer. Their majority of HP is Armor so they have plenty of time to turn on hardeners.
Thanks CCP.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Magnus Belmont
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.05.21 19:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. |
LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
4
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough.
Either way, ITS A GODDAM TANK!
Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons
First to PM me with common name wins
(no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)
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Magnus Belmont
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. Either way, ITS A GODDAM TANK!
Shhhh! Your going to make TOO much sense, then where will this argument be? >-> |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. Either way, ITS A GODDAM TANK!
What is that argument? Like really? What are you trying to accomplish with it?
It's like some infantry bloke made an argument saying "ITS A GODDAM DROPSUIT".... soooo... what are you trying to say, really?
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough.
The is possibly the worst argument I have ever herd. You do realize that the only way to avoid having tanks sneak up behind you is either being paranoid to a point where you are pointless to the team or sitting in the redline.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, Madrugar vs Gunnlogi is unbalanced. Madrugar 2 sec armor hardener delay doesn't effect them as much as shields since you have to get through their shields to get to their primary armor where as with shields, there is no buffer, no warning. Doesn't matter if face to face fight or getting snuck up on.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough.
Yeah its real hard to be sneaky at 200mph. Since armor tanks can fit NOS without sacrificing their main tank. Since shield tanks have to fit shields for their highs if they want to live at all, and have to fit fitting in their lows if they want to fit shields if they want to live at all.
Not like any of this matters anyway since the double hardened fit will outlast any shield tank. Plus they nerfed the missile launcher, the one weapon that was both fun and suppose to eat armor now only tickles it.
Armor meta +3 shield meta -5
Master Skyshark rider
Kaalaka dakka tamer
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
4
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Posted - 2015.05.21 20:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. Either way, ITS A GODDAM TANK! What is that argument? Like really? What are you trying to accomplish with it? It's like some infantry bloke made an argument saying "ITS A GODDAM DROPSUIT".... soooo... what are you trying to say, really?
My point, exactly, is why should one be more capable at killing another, if they're both tanks? In tank v tank games, all tanks have some sort of weakness counteracting their strength. That Madrugar, can do anything the Gunnlogi can, but better. The only downside is its slow turning speed and acceleration, which doesn't mean much in this game, while in other tank v tank games it makes a hell of a difference.
Sniper Rifles are for Nitrogenous Dioxide Borons
First to PM me with common name wins
(no Hyansaru, u win too much ;P)
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. Either way, ITS A GODDAM TANK! What is that argument? Like really? What are you trying to accomplish with it? It's like some infantry bloke made an argument saying "ITS A GODDAM DROPSUIT".... soooo... what are you trying to say, really? My point, exactly, is why should one be more capable at killing another, if they're both tanks? In tank v tank games, all tanks have some sort of weakness counteracting their strength. That Madrugar, can do anything the Gunnlogi can, but better. The only downside is its slow turning speed and acceleration, which doesn't mean much in this game, while in other tank v tank games it makes a hell of a difference.
Madrugar is actually faster and since its easy to fit a fuel injector, much faster.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
1
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:The blaster turret can probably dig through 2000-3000 of my shields before the shield hardener is up (My primary defense) which is a major issue. Armor tanks ,on the other hand, get a warning because they have shield as a buffer. Their majority of HP is Armor so they have plenty of time to turn on hardeners.
Thanks CCP.
Add in the fact armor repairs are passive, armor tanks will always have full hp when thier hardener activates.
Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. /Moon'er. /sun tolerator and visitor. Master lurker.
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Vordred Knight
Endless Hatred
725
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Why not make a caldari blaster eats armor but has a hard time eating shields
Hello, world!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.05.21 21:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vordred Knight wrote:Why not make a caldari blaster eats armor but has a hard time eating shields
If such a weapon be introduced it should be Matari in origin to represent the Autocannon. The Caldari do not have, besides employing Blasters or Gallentean design, a close quarters turret of their own.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
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Magnus Belmont
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. The is possibly the worst argument I have ever herd. You do realize that the only way to avoid having tanks sneak up behind you is either being paranoid to a point where you are pointless to the team or sitting in the redline. Anyway, it doesn't matter, Madrugar vs Gunnlogi is unbalanced. Madrugar 2 sec armor hardener delay doesn't effect them as much as shields since you have to get through their shields to get to their primary armor where as with shields, there is no buffer, no warning. Doesn't matter if face to face fight or getting snuck up on.
All shields have a recharge delay and reps don't.... Why not argue the same for Cal vs Gal suits? It's the same old argument of shields vs armor. Both have their ups and downs. |
Vordred Knight
Endless Hatred
725
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Vordred Knight wrote:Why not make a caldari blaster eats armor but has a hard time eating shields If such a weapon be introduced it should be Matari in origin to represent the Autocannon. The Caldari do not have, besides employing Blasters or Gallentean design, a close quarters turret of their own.
I would be fine with especially since they are bringing the amarr and minmatar tanks
Ha!!! You'll have a tank soon True cheers m8!!!
Hello, world!
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Magnus Belmont wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. The is possibly the worst argument I have ever herd. You do realize that the only way to avoid having tanks sneak up behind you is either being paranoid to a point where you are pointless to the team or sitting in the redline. Anyway, it doesn't matter, Madrugar vs Gunnlogi is unbalanced. Madrugar 2 sec armor hardener delay doesn't effect them as much as shields since you have to get through their shields to get to their primary armor where as with shields, there is no buffer, no warning. Doesn't matter if face to face fight or getting snuck up on. All shields have a recharge delay and reps don't.... Why not argue the same for Cal vs Gal suits? It's the same old argument of shields vs armor. Both have their ups and downs.
Actually no, armor has pretty much no down sides. Also, they are better than shield tanks in almost every possible way.
To put in perspective armor repair vs shields. (this is how it is with vehicles except put in a dropsuit example)
Cal assault reps 30 shields per sec with 5 sec delay and 8 sec depleted delay
Gallante assault reps 50 armor per sec passively while maintaining damage mods and more HP.
Does that seem fair? If you think it's fair, I guess you think tanks are pretty fair too right?
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
Actually no, armor has pretty much no down sides. Also, they are better than shield tanks in almost every possible way.
To put in perspective armor repair vs shields. (this is how it is with vehicles except put in a dropsuit example)
Cal assault reps 30 shields per sec with 5 sec delay and 8 sec depleted delay
Gallante assault reps 50 armor per sec passively while maintaining damage mods and more HP.
Does that seem fair? If you think it's fair, I guess you think tanks are pretty fair too right?
Who fits 5 Armour Repairers to a Gallente Assault? That only leaves you with a base armour of 343 and repairs that do not meaningfully adjust your TTK.
Now if we're talking Caldari Fits I just made one with 540 Sheiding, 76 Regen per second, 2 seconds delay, 3 seconds depleted delay, and runs Core Locus, Kalaakiota RR, an Ishukone Quantum Nanohive.
Of the two (the 50 repairs per second) this Caldari is clearly the superior in terms of raw HP, regenerative power, range, and speed.
"Crush all who complain!"
- Arkena Wyrnspire
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
2
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Posted - 2015.05.22 12:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vordred Knight wrote:Why not make a caldari blaster eats armor but has a hard time eating shields
We had that, it was called the large missile launcher...
Master Skyshark rider
Kaalaka dakka tamer
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
6
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. The is possibly the worst argument I have ever herd. You do realize that the only way to avoid having tanks sneak up behind you is either being paranoid to a point where you are pointless to the team or sitting in the redline. Anyway, it doesn't matter, Madrugar vs Gunnlogi is unbalanced. Madrugar 2 sec armor hardener delay doesn't effect them as much as shields since you have to get through their shields to get to their primary armor where as with shields, there is no buffer, no warning. Doesn't matter if face to face fight or getting snuck up on.
Let's not forget how nonsensical it is that another tank doesn't show up on your radar the moment it's in range. Kind of hard to be stealthy in something that big.
Also, no amount of tweaks is going to fix the fact that continuous passive armor repair is wrecking the meta. It is still possible to use a single plate and 3 rep mods to get a Madrugar to 4150 armor and around 400 HP/s. At that point you don't even need Hardeners.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
441
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Actually no, armor has pretty much no down sides. Also, they are better than shield tanks in almost every possible way.
To put in perspective armor repair vs shields. (this is how it is with vehicles except put in a dropsuit example)
Cal assault reps 30 shields per sec with 5 sec delay and 8 sec depleted delay
Gallante assault reps 50 armor per sec passively while maintaining damage mods and more HP.
Does that seem fair? If you think it's fair, I guess you think tanks are pretty fair too right?
Who fits 5 Armour Repairers to a Gallente Assault? That only leaves you with a base armour of 343 and repairs that do not meaningfully adjust your TTK. Now if we're talking Caldari Fits I just made one with 540 Sheiding, 76 Regen per second, 2 seconds delay, 3 seconds depleted delay, and runs Core Locus, Kalaakiota RR, an Ishukone Quantum Nanohive. Of the two (the 50 repairs per second) this Caldari is clearly the superior in terms of raw HP, regenerative power, range, and speed. The competing Gk.0 Fit, that I know is used by a particular Gallentean Loyalist, has roughly 591 armour, 23.25 repairs per second, is slower, has lesser range, however can fit a slightly higher meta level armament. That's a 51 point difference in terms of main tank, 1/3 the regenerative power, on a slower suit.
Wow True ! You must always run that Caldari fit and NEVER DIE !! or an even more likely story is you made that fit in protofits and never tried it ingame, similar to how you think shield tanks and armor tanks are in a great place right now.
Shield infantry rely on broken hit detection in game or sitting in the redline to survive. End of story.
Armor infantry gets to actually play the game as they can do everything shield suits can do but better. End of story. ( yes if you want 5 damage mods in your highs with a sniper rifle in the redline caldari does it better ).
Shield tanks - Hide in redline
Armor tanks - Play the game
This information really should be given to new players as it is key to enjoying the game, to have fun you either have to break hit detection of skill into armor.
People that drool over a spreadsheet and think everything is 'balanced' instead of logging in are part of the reason NO ONE IS PLAYING THIS GAME. |
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
441
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Another thing, threads like these, ones where actual logical feedback is given regarding how shields have been nerfed into the ground ( 25% of suits 50% of vehicles ) and the only blue tags to ever post comes months ago from a GM that admittingly runs armor suits to say " Working as intended " .
Seriously, just make shield suits and vehicles the starter suits and vehicles so that new players understand that they have no place in the endgame as a shield user.
Queue the responses from garbage amar loyalists and gallente forum dwellers that think ' Shields are in a great place in the redline ". |
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
441
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
and then ask for the redline to be nerfed |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.05.22 15:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:The blaster turret can probably dig through 2000-3000 of my shields before the shield hardener is up
Thanks CCP.
I prefer the shield tank, I also think the large blaster is a bit too strong, with that turret turn speed, once they catch you you're boned, unless they **** up majorly, they'll glue their rain of fire on you until you explode... And you will explode because it's so damn strong.
But if you didn't get the hardener up in time, that's really your own fault. If anything shoots you before you see them, it's your own fault, you need to be more aware of your surroundings... With the blasters range, you got pleanty of time to **** yourself before it gets close enough, use that reverse thrust! lol.
On the other hand, the tiny maps don't make it difficult to get close, which has lead to most people sitting in the red zone and waiting to spot a target, then going full gank tank on it... Which is kinda dull. |
Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.22 19:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:The blaster turret can probably dig through 2000-3000 of my shields before the shield hardener is up
Thanks CCP. I prefer the shield tank, I also think the large blaster is a bit too strong, with that turret turn speed, once they catch you you're boned, unless they **** up majorly, they'll glue their rain of fire on you until you explode... And you will explode because it's so damn strong. But if you didn't get the hardener up in time, that's really your own fault. If anything shoots you before you see them, it's your own fault, you need to be more aware of your surroundings... With the blasters range, you got pleanty of time to **** yourself before it gets close enough, use that reverse thrust! lol. On the other hand, the tiny maps don't make it difficult to get close, which has lead to most people sitting in the red zone and waiting to spot a target, then going full gank tank on it... Which is kinda dull.
That's not the point.
Armor tanks have an advantage because they have a shield buffer.
When something starts doing damage to them , they have time to activate their Armor Hardeners which is their primary defense and the most important
where as if you start getting shot in a gunnlogi, you get shot in your primary defense and by the time your hardener is up, they have pretty much melted half way through your shields.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Sir Dukey
G0DS AM0NG MEN
New Eden's Heros
2
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Posted - 2015.05.22 19:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Actually no, armor has pretty much no down sides. Also, they are better than shield tanks in almost every possible way.
To put in perspective armor repair vs shields. (this is how it is with vehicles except put in a dropsuit example)
Cal assault reps 30 shields per sec with 5 sec delay and 8 sec depleted delay
Gallante assault reps 50 armor per sec passively while maintaining damage mods and more HP.
Does that seem fair? If you think it's fair, I guess you think tanks are pretty fair too right?
Who fits 5 Armour Repairers to a Gallente Assault? That only leaves you with a base armour of 343 and repairs that do not meaningfully adjust your TTK. Now if we're talking Caldari Fits I just made one with 540 Sheiding, 76 Regen per second, 2 seconds delay, 3 seconds depleted delay, and runs Core Locus, Kalaakiota RR, an Ishukone Quantum Nanohive. Of the two (the 50 repairs per second) this Caldari is clearly the superior in terms of raw HP, regenerative power, range, and speed. The competing Gk.0 Fit, that I know is used by a particular Gallentean Loyalist, has roughly 591 armour, 23.25 repairs per second, is slower, has lesser range, however can fit a slightly higher meta level armament. That's a 51 point difference in terms of main tank, 1/3 the regenerative power, on a slower suit.
Like I said, this is a comparison.
If dropsuits worked the way tanks do right now. A gal assault will be repping 50+ armor per sec with more or equivalent HP to a Caldari suit. Not only that, but the gal assault also gets all sorts of weapon enhancing modules.
"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
Y.A.M.A.H
No Context
746
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Posted - 2015.05.22 20:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough. The is possibly the worst argument I have ever herd. You do realize that the only way to avoid having tanks sneak up behind you is either being paranoid to a point where you are pointless to the team or sitting in the redline. Anyway, it doesn't matter, Madrugar vs Gunnlogi is unbalanced. Madrugar 2 sec armor hardener delay doesn't effect them as much as shields since you have to get through their shields to get to their primary armor where as with shields, there is no buffer, no warning. Doesn't matter if face to face fight or getting snuck up on.
It isn't even about blaster tanks sneaking up on you. Cal tanks run blasters too. Both types of tank can zoom right up on you and get the hits in before the hardener kicks in and this was before the nerf.
However, I run missiles and since Cal are hit and run I go in, pop a hardener just as I am going to stop and shoot (I mainly hunt infantry at the objective these days providing AoD) then I roll out before second hardener is done and cool off as I make a big swing around the redline and come back around again.
If I worry about a tank then I worry about the tank and don't roll out paying attention to anything else. Usually though I keep a distance because missiles do well enough at range.
If I am going to slow or stop and shoot I keep a hardener on. I don't stop or slow or pay attention to much if I can't have my hardener going. That's when it'll happen to have a tank sneak up on you.
The CPM candidate we need, not the one we want. The candidate for the rest of us.
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Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
175
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Posted - 2015.05.22 21:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Magnus Belmont wrote:and blaster tanks have to get right up on you... Kinda your fault if a tank sneaks up on you... Seeing as they are slow and turn slow as well.
It's like complaining that Caldari isn't Galente enough.
you may not know this but with good skills even a std maddie can rep trough a lot of damage and since the rail turret and the missiles dont do enough dps, most of the time, they have a pretty easy time getting close for kills |
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