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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.21 08:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just fix that broken combo.
All I am saying is, it ain't true. The original discussion was about the imbalance between shield and armor. They want to bring it back to balance by ganking the armor tanks.
Except CCP designed the current shield tank to be a GLASS CANNON (ccp). This is by design. This is their intent.
You cannot fix anything with shield tank imbalance until CCP changes their mind. And they don't look like that is happening.
Feel free to add your own special "Fix that broken combo" in replies. Then they can be ignored as well. 
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
729
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Posted - 2015.05.21 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Just fix that broken combo. All I am saying is, it ain't true. The original discussion was about the imbalance between shield and armor. They want to bring it back to balance by ganking the armor tanks. Except CCP designed the current shield tank to be a GLASS CANNON (ccp). This is by design. This is their intent. You cannot fix anything with shield tank imbalance until CCP changes their mind. And they don't look like that is happening. Feel free to add your own special "Fix that broken combo" in replies. Then they can be ignored as well.
Passive aggressively replying to my post in another thread isnt ignoring something, just so you know.
Not sure why you're mad at me anyway, its clear that rep/hardener madrugers are absurdly broken right now just from the way they make both AV and gunnlogi tanks both look completely useless. |
Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
132
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Posted - 2015.05.21 14:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Easy fix.. Don't nerf armor. Buff shields |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
729
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Posted - 2015.05.21 16:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:Easy fix.. Don't nerf armor. Buff shields
And then AV is even worse off than before against tanks, so you buff them? Then dropships and LAVs are even more screwed than they are now.
As much as the whole nerf/buff cycle isnt very fun, sometimes nerfing something is entirely appropriate. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.05.21 17:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Just fix that broken combo. All I am saying is, it ain't true. The original discussion was about the imbalance between shield and armor. They want to bring it back to balance by ganking the armor tanks. Except CCP designed the current shield tank to be a GLASS CANNON (ccp). This is by design. This is their intent. You cannot fix anything with shield tank imbalance until CCP changes their mind. And they don't look like that is happening. Feel free to add your own special "Fix that broken combo" in replies. Then they can be ignored as well. Passive aggressively replying to my post in another thread isnt ignoring something, just so you know. Not sure why you're mad at me anyway, its clear that rep/hardener madrugers are absurdly broken right now just from the way they make both AV and gunnlogi tanks both look completely useless.
Please don't claim that AV is useless.
Even the best of the best proto tank goes down versus proper av opposition.
Moreoften, they are neutralised and cannot act.
But, what you say about caldari (shield) tanks vs gallente (armor), you are absolutely correct.
cald tanks won't stand a chance vs gals.
Looking at both sides of the coin.
Even Aurum one.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.21 22:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
Passive aggressively replying to my post in another thread isnt ignoring something, just so you know.
Not sure why you're mad at me anyway, its clear that rep/hardener madrugers are absurdly broken right now just from the way they make both AV and gunnlogi tanks both look completely useless.
Sorry @Vesta Opalus. I should have explained why I posted here instead of directly replying. My browser and the forums are complaining about each other. So one post might work but a random reply won't. I should have included that in my post and I apologize for seeming to dismiss you. It was not intentional. Clumsy, yes. Intentional, no.
What happened, besides my wonderful, brilliant, incisive reply to your other post being lost was I was thinking about what you said. Specifically 'just fix that combo'. I recall hearing it many, many times regarding many, many things that are not tanks or AV. For the most part it is about something perceived as OP. But knocking out that one change isn't really going to fix it.
In the vehicle/AV battle, a change is necessary. But CCP isn't the team to do it. We are living their current redesign now. And it is less than inspiring. Not much fun either.
ADS are junk for the most part. AV got seriously buffed and nothing was done to balance any dropships. I understand why, tanks are a higher priority. It just makes one aspect of the game for me. I liked flying. I didn't make a ton of points but ADS can be actual fun. Yes, even in the grinder known as Dust.
My alt heavy isn't fun either. Every now and then I get into a map that isn't horrible and with a Logi that knows what they are doing and I can last long enough to compensate. But, CCP decided that Heavies were restricted to CQC. We also use them for sniping but anything between is deadly. For them.
Since Uprising 1.0 shield tanks have been horrible. The physics are bad, although hitting a bump doesn't automatically remove your shields and blow up your tank. Some still do, not all. But CCP has designed shield tanks as glass cannons and have countered them very effectively with any number of glass cannon killers.
As to the current Maddy issue: I lose Maddies all the time. True I can go for several matches without losing one, but that is often balanced by losing more than one. Very expensive losses. My normal loss is to PRO AV, Tanks with AV support (rarely the driver), or multiple tanks. Usually one tank with a particle cannon in the mix. But, here on the forums many complain that my Maddy is unsinkable (or such). It isn't, however; you must do it right. One mistake means I get to restart (without shields). And many don't understand the difference between any old tanker versus a PRO level tanker with PRO gear. They are supposed to be tough. Just like PRO AV is tough. One mistake on either side and its time to respawn. Although, why getting many +75WP isn't satisfying enough for the AV crowd when I cannot kill them in return is odd.
I don't know if you were around previously but armor repairers rarely worked. They were slow, often shut off right after they were turned on. Many changes were requested but the one that made it in was switching from active to passive. Which was good, it should have been a better balance between shields and tanks. Except CCP has never done shields to be balanced with armor. So it sucks instead. A shield tank that is not at the edge of the battlefield is a death trap. As intended, by CCP.
* now using a different browser.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.21 23:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Please don't claim that AV is useless.
Even the best of the best proto tank goes down versus proper av opposition.
Moreoften, they are neutralised and cannot act.
But, what you say about caldari (shield) tanks vs gallente (armor), you are absolutely correct.
cald tanks won't stand a chance vs gals.
Well said. Barring the main battle tank from the battle is success. Many games won't reward you for doing so.
I lose most of my Maddies to AV. I am a PRO tanker, running ADV/PRO frames with PRO turrets and it does take many AV to kill my Maddy. Or for me to make one mistake. Or the map to stick me to a corner. Or the PRO AV to have the maximum damage mods equipped and not miss a single shot. Or for me to miss a single shot in reply. But I do lose them.
Losing to another tank is just time to fight. I only wish the AV would leave us to our fight, so we can settle is like warriors.
That said, shield tanks are junk. They are not balanced and CCP designed them that way. See glass cannon.
Welcome to Dust.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary
6
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Posted - 2015.05.22 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Actually, shields are designed to be hit-and-run
Pretty big blue when they can outmaneuver armor tanks, and the caldari turrets overheat/run out of ammo quickly
Some details can be ignored
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.05.22 01:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Actually, shields are designed to be hit-and-run
Pretty big blue when they can outmaneuver armor tanks, and the caldari turrets overheat/run out of ammo quickly
I agree. For me, the problem is they used to be good. Now they aren't. There is no possible way to fix them because CCP doesn't want them played that way. This was explained very clearly and repeated often. Glass cannons, I get it.
The problem is this is Dust514. Tiny, tiny maps, limited encounters, massively unbalanced weapon sets everywhere (not just in vehicles) and the essence of EVE permeating like a festering sore. The entire EVE concept is to ruin the other guys day. Fair fights, fight with honor, fights between balanced foes ... that ain't even possible in EVE.
The recent change to railgun heat levels mean they are somewhat usable (assuming they work, which they are not certain to). Which is countered by the miniscule size of any Dust map. Encounters are close up (by most definitions) and shields lose those more often than not.
My suggestion is don't play shield tanks. If you do, learn them, get used to death as it will be used to the smell of your burned corpse. Do that enough times, understand the intricacies of the various glass cannon killers (tm) and you might enjoy yourself.
Or you might not.
Regardless, CCP wants them to remain as glass cannons. So they will remain as glass cannons, aka ISK sinks.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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