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Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
123
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Posted - 2015.05.18 16:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
From my recent post ( Yesterday ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780687#post2780687
You can see that shields and the Caldari suits alone are under performing greatly. Excluding their weaponry the Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, and equipment which is actually on par with the other Race weaponry. Even though I am all for the Amarr and somewhat Gallente, I hate to see one race continuously lacking.
I'd like to discuss some changes you as a community would like to see to the shield Race in a polite manner of course.
The things I see lacking of course would be:
* Caldari Logi & Bonuses ( Very Rare Sight )
* Magsec SMG ( Never seen them, never been killed by it )
* The Caldari shields itself
I'd like to hear everyone's perspective on this ! The Pros and Cons. Any way to make the Caldari Race to be on Par with the Other Factions.
Edit: Please don't state "Armor for Tanking, Shield for Strafing" because then what's the point of having one Race completely shields and can't strafe as good when compared to the Minmitar. |
deezy dabest
2
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=202296&find=unread
Caldari suits seems to be performing just fine. |
Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
714
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Usage is not performance, and raw k/spawn does not tell the whole story of a suit. |
Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
123
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance.
Not relying on petty data please. Data told us tanks needed a buff. Look at tanks now. |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
I honestly think something here is skewing the results. Maybe long range weaponry, like snipers or just the nature of the RR range. I would be curious to see the data for kills and not just KDR.
Honestly I think shields need a second look, maybe an adjustment to recharge time and def a look at CPU to PG ratios. Especially concerning the logi.
And that assault bonus is incredibly lame in comparison to the amar and gallente bonuses. Even the min bonus with extra clip size beats out a very rare and seldom needed thing like reload speed.
I'm also curious as to how the Assault RR compares to the normal RR version. In my opinion the aRR is superior in every way, and I see no advantage to using the normal variant.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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deezy dabest
2
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance. Not relying on petty data please. Data told us tanks needed a buff. Look at tanks now.
Petty data which Ratatti has referenced time and time again when it comes to balancing issues?
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:From my recent post ( Yesterday ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780687#post2780687You can see that shields and the Caldari suits alone are under performing greatly. Excluding their weaponry the Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, and equipment which is actually on par with the other Race weaponry. Even though I am all for the Amarr and somewhat Gallente, I hate to see one race continuously lacking. I'd like to discuss some changes you as a community would like to see to the shield Race in a polite manner of course. The things I see lacking of course would be: * Caldari Logi & Bonuses ( Very Rare Sight ) * Magsec SMG ( Never seen them, never been killed by it ) * The Caldari shields itself I'd like to hear everyone's perspective on this ! The Pros and Cons. Any way to make the Caldari Race to be on Par with the Other Factions. Edit: Please don't state "Armor for Tanking, Shield for Strafing" because then what's the point of having one Race completely shields and can't strafe as good when compared to the Minmitar.
Caldari logi bonus was never that great to begin with, the recent buffs to nanohive count carried just put the nail in the coffin for the poor suit.
The magsec SMG is a reasonable weapon but it just has too much kick, the chrage up is a little too long and its iron sights are some of the most ghastly things in all of gamedom!
As for "Caldari shields" do you mean the base suit stats and regen rates etc.. or do you mean shield extenders, other shield modules etc..?
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
715
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance. Not relying on petty data please. Data told us tanks needed a buff. Look at tanks now. Petty data which Ratatti has referenced time and time again when it comes to balancing issues?
Hes never implied kills/spawns is the primary indicator of imbalance, just that it can be a good indicator to kick off a real investigation.
In this case Im going to go ahead and attribute most of the numbers there to sniping, especially considering the cal commando's high kills/spawn. If the suits are only good for sniping they will be used disproportionately for it, which will result in very inflated kill ratios, even if the suits are trash compared to every other suit.
If you really think the Cal Commando is legitimately 7x better than every other suit in the game, I invite you to proto it out and take a ride on the suck train yourself and see how it works out for you. |
CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.05.18 17:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance. Not relying on petty data please. Data told us tanks needed a buff. Look at tanks now. Petty data which Ratatti has referenced time and time again when it comes to balancing issues?
The data is flawed in some ways, it would be nice to see the same results after taking away sniper kills and stuff.
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
123
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:From my recent post ( Yesterday ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780687#post2780687You can see that shields and the Caldari suits alone are under performing greatly. Excluding their weaponry the Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, and equipment which is actually on par with the other Race weaponry. Even though I am all for the Amarr and somewhat Gallente, I hate to see one race continuously lacking. I'd like to discuss some changes you as a community would like to see to the shield Race in a polite manner of course. The things I see lacking of course would be: * Caldari Logi & Bonuses ( Very Rare Sight ) * Magsec SMG ( Never seen them, never been killed by it ) * The Caldari shields itself I'd like to hear everyone's perspective on this ! The Pros and Cons. Any way to make the Caldari Race to be on Par with the Other Factions. Edit: Please don't state "Armor for Tanking, Shield for Strafing" because then what's the point of having one Race completely shields and can't strafe as good when compared to the Minmitar. Caldari logi bonus was never that great to begin with, the recent buffs to nanohive count carried just put the nail in the coffin for the poor suit. The magsec SMG is a reasonable weapon but it just has too much kick, the chrage up is a little too long and its iron sights are some of the most ghastly things in all of gamedom! As for "Caldari shields" do you mean the base suit stats and regen rates etc.. or do you mean shield extenders, other shield modules etc..?
The Modules and Stats |
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:From my recent post ( Yesterday ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780687#post2780687You can see that shields and the Caldari suits alone are under performing greatly. Excluding their weaponry the Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, and equipment which is actually on par with the other Race weaponry. Even though I am all for the Amarr and somewhat Gallente, I hate to see one race continuously lacking. I'd like to discuss some changes you as a community would like to see to the shield Race in a polite manner of course. The things I see lacking of course would be: * Caldari Logi & Bonuses ( Very Rare Sight ) * Magsec SMG ( Never seen them, never been killed by it ) * The Caldari shields itself I'd like to hear everyone's perspective on this ! The Pros and Cons. Any way to make the Caldari Race to be on Par with the Other Factions. Edit: Please don't state "Armor for Tanking, Shield for Strafing" because then what's the point of having one Race completely shields and can't strafe as good when compared to the Minmitar. Caldari logi bonus was never that great to begin with, the recent buffs to nanohive count carried just put the nail in the coffin for the poor suit. The magsec SMG is a reasonable weapon but it just has too much kick, the chrage up is a little too long and its iron sights are some of the most ghastly things in all of gamedom! As for "Caldari shields" do you mean the base suit stats and regen rates etc.. or do you mean shield extenders, other shield modules etc..? The Modules and Stats
Then I feel that shield extenders need to lose their depleted delay penalty all together.
Rechargers and energizers need to provide a little more of a boost and the same for regulators.
We have no shield hives or shield repair tools which has always been a major imbalance in my opinion.
Lastly, I think it would be fair for shield users to have a module similar to armour users "Reactive plates". So basically a shield module that gives some additional shield like a shield extender (though of course not as much) but also gives a nice recharge bonus at the same time. (Possibly delay buffs too?) I don't have numbers, just the idea.
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
|
Apocalyptic Destroyerr
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote:From my recent post ( Yesterday ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780687#post2780687You can see that shields and the Caldari suits alone are under performing greatly. Excluding their weaponry the Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol, and equipment which is actually on par with the other Race weaponry. Even though I am all for the Amarr and somewhat Gallente, I hate to see one race continuously lacking. I'd like to discuss some changes you as a community would like to see to the shield Race in a polite manner of course. The things I see lacking of course would be: * Caldari Logi & Bonuses ( Very Rare Sight ) * Magsec SMG ( Never seen them, never been killed by it ) * The Caldari shields itself I'd like to hear everyone's perspective on this ! The Pros and Cons. Any way to make the Caldari Race to be on Par with the Other Factions. Edit: Please don't state "Armor for Tanking, Shield for Strafing" because then what's the point of having one Race completely shields and can't strafe as good when compared to the Minmitar. Caldari logi bonus was never that great to begin with, the recent buffs to nanohive count carried just put the nail in the coffin for the poor suit. The magsec SMG is a reasonable weapon but it just has too much kick, the chrage up is a little too long and its iron sights are some of the most ghastly things in all of gamedom! As for "Caldari shields" do you mean the base suit stats and regen rates etc.. or do you mean shield extenders, other shield modules etc..? The Modules and Stats Then I feel that shield extenders need to lose their depleted delay penalty all together. Rechargers and energizers need to provide a little more of a boost and the same for regulators. We have no shield hives or shield repair tools which has always been a major imbalance in my opinion. Lastly, I think it would be fair for shield users to have a module similar to armour users "Reactive plates". So basically a shield module that gives some additional shield like a shield extender (though of course not as much) but also gives a nice recharge bonus at the same time. (Possibly delay buffs too?) I don't have numbers, just the idea.
Nice idea. I'll try to come up with the numbers later ! To be on par with armor |
Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
5
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 17:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2780786#post2780786 Here's my fix and like I said before the armor fotm chasers would come to say no
Yes the idea may be stupid but at least I'm trying to fix a problem
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 20:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's not "armor for tanking, shields for strafing": it's armor for strafing/tanking (hodor), shields for cover.
Some details can be ignored
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
719
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 20:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's not "armor for tanking, shields for strafing": it's armor for strafing/tanking (hodor), shields for cover.
And remember not to come out of cover ever. And if you think someone is coming near, run away to farther away cover. Dont worry about A, its completely out of your reach. |
sir RAVEN WING
3
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 21:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Focus on Magsec:
Better Scope More Range Less Kick (Little **** kicked horribly last time I used it.) Assault, Breach, and Tactical variants. (This is needed with almost every weapon) Slightly Higher damage. (I mean to where it actually becomes a gun instead of a marshmallow shooter.)
"Are you crushing them?" - Delt
"Yeah." - Medicure
"You're doing God's work son." - Delt
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Echo 1991
Dead Man's Game
822
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 21:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I honestly think something here is skewing the results. Maybe long range weaponry, like snipers or just the nature of the RR range. I would be curious to see the data for kills and not just KDR. Honestly I think shields need a second look, maybe an adjustment to recharge time and def a look at CPU to PG ratios. Especially concerning the logi. And that assault bonus is incredibly lame in comparison to the amar and gallente bonuses. Even the min bonus with extra clip size beats out a very rare and seldom needed thing like reload speed. I'm also curious as to how the Assault RR compares to the normal RR version. In my opinion the aRR is superior in every way, and I see no advantage to using the normal variant. The gallente bonus is lame, but the cal logi does need some love. |
Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 22:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's not "armor for tanking, shields for strafing": it's armor for strafing/tanking (hodor), shields for cover. And remember not to come out of cover ever. And if you think someone is coming near, run away to farther away cover. Dont worry about A, its completely out of your reach. We're talking about Dust here, not the iraqi army.
Some details can be ignored
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
722
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 22:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's not "armor for tanking, shields for strafing": it's armor for strafing/tanking (hodor), shields for cover. And remember not to come out of cover ever. And if you think someone is coming near, run away to farther away cover. Dont worry about A, its completely out of your reach. We're talking about Dust here, not the iraqi army.
Iraqi army SOP is to surrender at the first realistic opportunity, though running away is a close second. |
Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
167
|
Posted - 2015.05.18 22:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance, and raw k/spawn does not tell the whole story of a suit.
when will you fools realize that this is because of sniper rifles |
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PADDEHATPIGEN
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
216
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 00:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not many players use Caldari suits, most players play the other races.
Those numbers tell nothing about how many suits of each race was used, so you if other suits was used 10 times as much as Caldari suits they also die a lot more.
All new players are told to stay away from Caldari stuff because it sucks so most of them easy kills are probably other races to. |
Scheneighnay McBob
And the ButtPirates
6
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 00:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
I looked at the stats, and I don't really see a problem. They could just use a little more base shield HP That, and I think they should swap assault skills with the gallente. Reload speed is more important with gallente weapons (primarily plasma cannons and shotguns), while caldari weapons have recoil problems.
I don't see what's bad about the caldari logi bonus either. Looks good for rep hive spamming.
Some details can be ignored
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
725
|
Posted - 2015.05.19 02:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Usage is not performance, and raw k/spawn does not tell the whole story of a suit. when will you fools realize that this is because of sniper rifles
Earlier in the thread, when I said it was because sniper rifles. |
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