DUST Search - META LEVELS wont work!

nelo kazuma wrote:

Your not wrong In the fact that a vet will have the advantage In bonuses from skill and will probably win more often than losing. But that being said a meta lvl mode is still a better option than leaving things as they are where in public matches where someone whos only limited to standard and adv.

Ill be the vet you the newbie in a regular match I have practically unlimited use of my suits wearing proto more hp more damg and better gear in general and your forced to just use up to adv hell even if your in proto my core skills plus my fitting optimization lets me stack more. How is this fair? How in a pub where even though I run an adv suit but still be able to fit proto stuff on my adv cuz I can fit it fair?

More importantly how and why would a meta lvl mode not benifit the game at all?
When I wont be able to put proto on my adv or basic suits and im forced to run the exact things because of meta lvl restriction. Yea ill have adva tage due to skills but in no waaaaaayyy can you argue that a meta lvl mode wont be good new players.

Like many your just afraid that there will no longer be newbies to stomp, youll have to face others who can run same gear as you there wont be no easy victories its where teamwork will be important and c.o.d losers wont be able to do as they please.

Most important it gives newbies time to practice before going against people they cant compete with and it will promote better new player experience.

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
se7ensaints Chatelain Rapid Response 3	Posted - 2015.05.16 16:48:00 - [1] - Quote the introduction of meta levels is near. most players believe it will make the game more balanced i personally believe it wont. ill tell you why it wont. firstly lets talk about public contracts we currently have the capability to have anyone in the same battle e.g someone with 100 mils SP and someone with a mere 500K SP (due to **** match making) lets distinguish them by the terms vet and noob. the noob has no chance against this vet ever fullstops, he has way more potential. the noob will be terminated before he even has the chance to react. CCP intend to solve this problem with meta levels; assigning every available weapon,module,equipment,drop-suit etc. a level and then introducing a code for game modes which prohibits the use of drop-suits which possess higher meta levels than the one enforced. it all seems good so far doesn't it what an amazing way to solve the problem! but lets put this into perspective i will be the vet and you the noob , the restriction for the pub will be lets say 30 meta. restricting the use of proto suits. so this vet i cannot play with the you any more sadly . but in truth i can still just trade my pro suit for an advanced or a standard, your probably thinking this will make it fair but the reason this guy is a vet is not because of his SP but his experience; you could have every skill lvl 5 in this game but No experience and be beaten by a guy in all militia whose played this game for a year hell destroy this guy. no lets with draw this example and go back to the vet and the noob and lets centre on a weapon. i pick the assault rifle (even though i hate the weapon) the vet and noob are put in the same 30 meta game. you think its fair don't you they are using the same rifle aren't they but no they are not! the noobs weaponry assault t tree is completely untouched whereas the vets is all maxed e.g proficiency lvl which the meta lvls don't even count for so the vet has 15% damage boost to shield on top of the standard bonuses, unless they do and im mistaken if they do just ignore the rest then . he will still dominate the noob because these have not been accounted for by meta lvl. now lets talk about another example the scrambler rifle and amaar dropsuits (favourite weapon and dropsuit; proud amaarian). the vet has both skills maxed he has 25 percent reduction to heat build up and a bonus to cool down whereas the noob has nothing he just has the basic scrambler rifle because he was only able to to put 1 skill point cos u cant do anything with 500k sp lets face it.. now the vet and the noob encounter each other in battle the vet will still annihilate he can fire a charge shot and empty half his clip before seizing the noob however can only fire one charge and 1 or 2 bullets after wards. do you see the pattern the vet wins again. its cyclic pattern with everything just being repeated the noob will always loose to the vet. ill save the problem of isk difference cos i think u guys already know what would happen. now you may ask why would this vet want to play with a noob. will put yourself in the mind of the vet you've probably accomplished all you want skill wise, your corp owns a quarter of molden heath and your now getting bored. what is the last thing to accomplish: A BETTER KD and whereas the best,easiest and fastest place to get that =with the noobs, true! now the disadvantages of the noob and vet scenario is are that the noob will think the only thing im good at is DYING lol. so he will leave and never play this game again he will go and tell his friends dont play this game its ** and theyll spread it fabricating a little chain reaction. this decreases CCP customer base and DUST's player base. now with dust being an on-line game requiring social aspects you cant play this game by yourself can you? so its terrible for dusts future. player count will plummet until it is truly is 6 vs 10 16 players in player count, playing the game. i doubt CCP will allow it to get this low expect the lights to go off much earlier. WHY IS IT SO DARK IN HERE now i myself cant formulate a solution to this, i may be wrong with this thread but it is what i foresee with META's, so if YOU have any solutions please make them apparent. Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
Droopy Bawlz myrtle beach leap frogz 350	Posted - 2015.05.16 16:51:00 - [2] - Quote I just wish you wouldnt talk any more. I feel pins and needles in my brain when you post. Its like listening to my old lady. I just wanna yell STFU. Then drink alcohol profusely while "cleaning" my pistola. Wondering if it is better on the other side. I would rather be kicked in the nutz by Golden Day than listen/read your nonsense. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA
se7ensaints Chatelain Rapid Response 4	Posted - 2015.05.16 17:00:00 - [3] - Quote Droopy Bawlz wrote: I just wish you wouldnt talk any more. I feel pins and needles in my brain when you post. Its like listening to my old lady. I just wanna yell STFU. Then drink alcohol profusely while "cleaning" my pistola. Wondering if it is better on the other side. I would rather be kicked in the nutz by Golden Day than listen/read your nonsense. seriously this is probably the last time im speaking ive said all ive ever want to say, i just want to share my thoughts and opinions hence what a thread is for and make this a better game i guess you wouldn't understand because ur a CCP ** RIDER. praising ** changes, stimulates the creation of more terrible changes. on the contrary constructively criticising like i believe i did improves the game and tells CCP what they could do to make it a better game. isn't that what we all want or is it just me if so i feel alone Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
Droopy Bawlz myrtle beach leap frogz 351	Posted - 2015.05.16 17:03:00 - [4] - Quote se7ensaints wrote: Droopy Bawlz wrote: I just wish you wouldnt talk any more. I feel pins and needles in my brain when you post. Its like listening to my old lady. I just wanna yell STFU. Then drink alcohol profusely while "cleaning" my pistola. Wondering if it is better on the other side. I would rather be kicked in the nutz by Golden Day than listen/read your nonsense. seriously this is probably the last time im speaking ive said all ive ever want to say, i just want to share my thoughts and opinions hence what a thread is for and make this a better game i guess you wouldn't understand because ur a CCP ** RIDER. praising ** changes, stimulates the creation of more terrible changes. on the contrary constructively criticising like i believe i did improves the game and tells CCP what they could do to make it a better game. isn't that what we all want or is it just me [ :?:] if so i feel alone Then you have a lot of learning to do. Stop the whining and start making constructive threads. Starting out saying CCP IS A BIG STUPID HEAD ,,gets you no where. I will never take anything you say seriously. IF my 9 year old started talking like that,,,I would have smacked him in the forehead. Now with all due respect GTFO (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee925OTFBCA
se7ensaints Chatelain Rapid Response 4	Posted - 2015.05.16 17:11:00 - [5] - Quote Droopy Bawlz wrote: se7ensaints wrote: Droopy Bawlz wrote: I just wish you wouldnt talk any more. I feel pins and needles in my brain when you post. Its like listening to my old lady. I just wanna yell STFU. Then drink alcohol profusely while "cleaning" my pistola. Wondering if it is better on the other side. I would rather be kicked in the nutz by Golden Day than listen/read your nonsense. seriously this is probably the last time im speaking ive said all ive ever want to say, i just want to share my thoughts and opinions hence what a thread is for and make this a better game i guess you wouldn't understand because ur a CCP ** RIDER. praising ** changes, stimulates the creation of more terrible changes. on the contrary constructively criticising like i believe i did improves the game and tells CCP what they could do to make it a better game. isn't that what we all want or is it just me [ :?:] if so i feel alone Then you have a lot of learning to do. Stop the whining and start making constructive threads. Starting out saying CCP IS A BIG STUPID HEAD ,,gets you no where. I will never take anything you say seriously. IF my 9 year old started talking like that,,,I would have smacked him in the forehead. Now with all due respect GTFO https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=202793&find=unread i think your mistaken i did not mean to whine i ment to speculate and adress meta levels analytically in this post. with the other post i was just portraying passion for this game excuse me for portraying it in a different way that comes across as whining, i couldn't even care if CCP read it if it angers them then so be it i knew it wouldn't get anywhere because i don't want it to go anywhere. i just wanted to ask the community of there opnions and if thats wrong then thats completely fine with me. i have no problem with being wrong. in addition you are not the kind of person i want to take myself seriously. Oh yeah child beater can you please show me to the door because just like you said you need to GTFO! Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 197	Posted - 2015.05.16 17:27:00 - [6] - Quote Personally I hope they move toward tiercide and abandon the idea of further dividing the playerbase. The progression system isn't nearly as drawn out with boosters obtainable through missions, stackable boosters, SP from missions, and a higher cap. Tiercide is the answer to most of these types of requests even though the OP is fearful of it. Thor's Emporium
se7ensaints 6	Posted - 2015.05.16 17:31:00 - [7] - Quote thor424 wrote: Personally I hope they move toward tiercide and abandon the idea of further dividing the playerbase. The progression system isn't nearly as drawn out with boosters obtainable through missions, stackable boosters, SP from missions, and a higher cap. Tiercide is the answer to most of these types of requests even though the OP is fearful of it. good suggestion i agree this would address some issues and possibly be better than the solution that ccp want to implement Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2768	Posted - 2015.05.16 23:26:00 - [8] - Quote @ OP I agree with your analysis. Dividing the playerbase by meta will hurt the game. Tiericide, which many find intellectually appealing and familiar from traditional level-playing-field fps games, will do absolutely nothing to better the new player experience(other than maybe one or two frames per second, but maybe not even that). I think of it as busywork: a way to 'do something' without facing that deeper, intractable problems that are crippling the game. Dust could have prospered as an asymmetric shooter, but there are several necessary prerequisites: Rock solid mechanics: No tripping on rocks or hit detection problems allowed. Nothing sucks more in an fps than dieing to a two inch ledge or your carefully-led headshot clipping on the invisible edge of a CRU. There's a rule of game design: The more difficult the game the tighter the controls need to be. NPE: Must be masterfully written and lovingly crafted to remove the vet's knowledge advantage ASAP. The game must acknowledge & respect what new players are facing and reward them for it. Noob kills a high mu vet who's mowing down the good guys? +300 WP. Asymmetrical risk/odds means asymmetrical rewards. The reward system's fundamental answer to a protostomp must be it's always better to go down fighting. CCP is telling us points 1 & 2 are undoable. Not sure what their argument for 3 is. However, getting back to reality, none of the fundamental problems Dust faces are going to be addressed by CCP, which leaves us with work-arounds: Imo the single biggest force multiplier(other than general game/map knowledge) for vets is shared scans. The best half-assed kludgy workaround to our problems with pubs and new players would be the removal of shared scans from all pub matches. PSN: RationalSpark
Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 705	Posted - 2015.05.17 02:20:00 - [9] - Quote Droopy Bawlz wrote: I just wish you wouldnt talk any more. I feel pins and needles in my brain when you post. Its like listening to my old lady. I just wanna yell STFU. Then drink alcohol profusely while "cleaning" my pistola. Wondering if it is better on the other side. I would rather be kicked in the nutz by Golden Day than listen/read your nonsense. I'm too sober to even read that wall of text. Even with formatting it's a wall. Please give the non-drunk, TL;DR version. Death is a serious businessGÇª So is running a shoddy, half-baked game company.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1288	Posted - 2015.05.17 02:27:00 - [10] - Quote se7ensaints wrote: Meta Levels WONT WORK!!1 That's the spirit !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1356	Posted - 2015.05.17 03:14:00 - [11] - Quote Wow... this is so much stupid it hurts. Proto equipment allows for about a 50% bonus on all fronts over a newcomer.. Cutting back to ADV drops that bonus cap to around 30%. Limiting to standard tier changes the difference to around 15%. That's a pretty good increase of odds for a newcomer, as the more level the field, the better experience they will have. I've just summarized your entire wall of text up there, AND blown through it in about one paragraph. You need to learn to write more concisely. Five paragraphs just to tell us that you plan on going to the store, is no good. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1805	Posted - 2015.05.17 03:20:00 - [12] - Quote Its Amarr NOT Ammar or Amaar ITS AMARR FFS LEARN TO SPELL (sorry I just hate when people can't spell Amarr) Im just a glorified blueberry
BLOOD Ruler Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 1858	Posted - 2015.05.17 03:50:00 - [13] - Quote I always thought making it random would solve the problem. No Escaping Reason, No Denying Purpose For We Know Without Purpose We World Not Exist The Purpose Of Life Is To End
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 182	Posted - 2015.05.17 03:58:00 - [14] - Quote Your not wrong In the fact that a vet will have the advantage In bonuses from skill and will probably win more often than losing. But that being said a meta lvl mode is still a better option than leaving things as they are where in public matches where someone whos only limited to standard and adv. Ill be the vet you the newbie in a regular match I have practically unlimited use of my suits wearing proto more hp more damg and better gear in general and your forced to just use up to adv hell even if your in proto my core skills plus my fitting optimization lets me stack more. How is this fair? How in a pub where even though I run an adv suit but still be able to fit proto stuff on my adv cuz I can fit it fair? More importantly how and why would a meta lvl mode not benifit the game at all? When I wont be able to put proto on my adv or basic suits and im forced to run the exact things because of meta lvl restriction. Yea ill have adva tage due to skills but in no waaaaaayyy can you argue that a meta lvl mode wont be good new players. Like many your just afraid that there will no longer be newbies to stomp, youll have to face others who can run same gear as you there wont be no easy victories its where teamwork will be important and c.o.d losers wont be able to do as they please. Most important it gives newbies time to practice before going against people they cant compete with and it will promote better new player experience.
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6622	Posted - 2015.05.17 04:02:00 - [15] - Quote You're a ******* idiot. The problems that you claim will arise from meta limits already exist, and are amplified by the lack of meta limits. Some details can be ignored
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 591	Posted - 2015.05.17 04:03:00 - [16] - Quote se7ensaints wrote: quite a lot of stuff all of this is true, but! Its better for the new player to face a vet if they are meta locked to the same level, than it is for a new player to face a vet who has access to full blown proto and officer gear. Yes the vet has more skill from experience at playing the game, probably 25% more armor and shields from skill bonuses, and better weapons from skill bonuses, and dropsuit skill bonuses, and all the other stuff, but at least they would be limited by meta level of gear, it evens out one level of the playing field, instead of having the playing field completely uneven.
nelo kazuma THE LAST H0PE. RUST415 183	Posted - 2015.05.17 04:17:00 - [17] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: se7ensaints wrote: quite a lot of stuff all of this is true, but! Its better for the new player to face a vet if they are meta locked to the same level, than it is for a new player to face a vet who has access to full blown proto and officer gear. Yes the vet has more skill from experience at playing the game, probably 25% more armor and shields from skill bonuses, and better weapons from skill bonuses, and dropsuit skill bonuses, and all the other stuff, but at least they would be limited by meta level of gear, it evens out one level of the playing field, instead of having the playing field completely uneven. Agree with you entirely. Even if this will be the case still better than how things are now. Theres even talk of weapon balancing for certain weapons (no specifics but has been mentioned already). To those complaining about it being a strong possibilty now I say this if your gonna whine regarding it dont try these half assed arguements push for a meta lvl mode that can be selected no one said it had to be one or the other. Acquisition is a new mode so y meta lvl mode cant be introduced as a new option is perfectly understandable more modes more options. Dont sit here complaining already cuz you just dont wanna actually have a more fair fight.
deezy dabest 2291	Posted - 2015.05.17 08:19:00 - [18] - Quote Here I will simplify your post for you. Vet = more shield, more armor, more module efficacy, and more damage on the same suit. Newb = proto suit with no skills behind it is equal to a veterans basic suit for the most part. In conclusion it is likely that vets will flock to low meta areas with full squads and continue to use their OP skill bonuses and OP teamwork to stomp the crap out of newbs who now then not even counter with buying a more expensive suit. While you had a good point your wall of text is very unappealing and not very good for getting your point across.
se7ensaints 18	Posted - 2015.05.17 19:32:00 - [19] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: Your not wrong In the fact that a vet will have the advantage In bonuses from skill and will probably win more often than losing. But that being said a meta lvl mode is still a better option than leaving things as they are where in public matches where someone whos only limited to standard and adv. Ill be the vet you the newbie in a regular match I have practically unlimited use of my suits wearing proto more hp more damg and better gear in general and your forced to just use up to adv hell even if your in proto my core skills plus my fitting optimization lets me stack more. How is this fair? How in a pub where even though I run an adv suit but still be able to fit proto stuff on my adv cuz I can fit it fair? More importantly how and why would a meta lvl mode not benifit the game at all? When I wont be able to put proto on my adv or basic suits and im forced to run the exact things because of meta lvl restriction. Yea ill have adva tage due to skills but in no waaaaaayyy can you argue that a meta lvl mode wont be good new players. Like many your just afraid that there will no longer be newbies to stomp, youll have to face others who can run same gear as you there wont be no easy victories its where teamwork will be important and c.o.d losers wont be able to do as they please. Most important it gives newbies time to practice before going against people they cant compete with and it will promote better new player experience. maybe i should rephrase my message what i mean is it wont work well enough to truly solve the problem its better than the system implemented now but its just the stepping stone to solve the problem. im not afraid if i see a match full of noobs i leave the battle because i know me killing them just damages the game and even if i see a noob in game in all militia i wouldn't go all out and kill him like most people do id leave him unless he posed an obvious threat to me. i just think there is a better way than metas. Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
se7ensaints 18	Posted - 2015.05.17 19:34:00 - [20] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Here I will simplify your post for you. Vet = more shield, more armor, more module efficacy, and more damage on the same suit. Newb = proto suit with no skills behind it is equal to a veterans basic suit for the most part. In conclusion it is likely that vets will flock to low meta areas with full squads and continue to use their OP skill bonuses and OP teamwork to stomp the crap out of newbs who now then not even counter with buying a more expensive suit. While you had a good point your wall of text is very unappealing and not very good for getting your point across. sorry it was long this is only the third time ive posted ill shorten it next time Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield

se7ensaints 18	Posted - 2015.05.17 19:38:00 - [21] - Quote Golden Day wrote: Its Amarr NOT Ammar or Amaar ITS AMARR FFS LEARN TO SPELL (sorry I just hate when people can't spell Amarr) lol spelt it wrong once but it is unexecusable as loyallist Praise BENDNOVA research rooftop OUTNUMBERED 777 shield
Michael-J-Fox Richards The Scope Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2015.05.17 20:32:00 - [22] - Quote i'd rather be kicked in the **** than read that post. holy christ alts are for sissies. too legit, too legit to quit.
dzizur Nos Nothi 314	Posted - 2015.05.18 05:20:00 - [23] - Quote ^ so stop posting you imbecile if you can't even read the OP.... As for OP, I really think it's a true and logical outcome, I'm surprised how hard is it to comprehend for other people. SP in dust gives you a very big advantage( IMO, too big) in health, damage, speed and ewar. And are there more important stats in this game than that? Noob can't see the vet, can't run away from him, can't kill him if they started just shooting at each other at the same time (but they probably didn't - 'cause ewar)...


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page