DUST Search - Dust's new model: Pay to Exploit

Cypher Nil wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation.

The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort.

Is this really the path we want Dust to go down?

It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives.

There really has to be a better way.

You cant farm newsletter items with alts, the alt account has to be made before the newsletter item is on offer.

If i made an alt account today and tried to redeem even one newsletter item the system would to allow me.

if someone is actually going to pay a ton of money to passivly farm a small amount of ISK I say let them. CCP gets more funding

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Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5113	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:59:00 - [1] - Quote It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation. The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort. Is this really the path we want Dust to go down? It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives. There really has to be a better way. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback 5113	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:15:00 - [2] - Quote It's also come to my attention that you can completely bypass the ISK blcok by just sending directly to a corporation without even being a member. This litereally does nothing to stop the warbarge farming while harming legitimate players. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4576	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:35:00 - [3] - Quote But sincerely how many players will create so many alts and between various PSN accounts just to farm barge isk? In the time you need to access all of them you can play some match in starter fit and gain some isk. Btw, i don't like CCP monetization policy, instead of add more things to the game, the plan seem to put features behind a paywall, this is like when company put DLC in the disk and want your money to unlock them. Shaman's Shack - A place to trade
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 3166	Posted - 2015.05.06 09:36:00 - [4] - Quote lel, this is even sillier than I thought. GG CCP. Top lel
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2729	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:01:00 - [5] - Quote This is one of the reasons i use the word 'cheezy' so much. It's cart-before-the-horse reactionism and band-aid fixes all round. PSN: RationalSpark
Tiny Pineapple Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 225	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:02:00 - [6] - Quote There are much better ways to go about this than putting a very important feature of Dust behind a paywall. You can't handle all this synergy.
Jackie Chang Lee Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2015.05.06 15:52:00 - [7] - Quote This is a problem facing a lot of games these days, microtransactions are a plague to the gaming world and publishers and developers know it. They use this to pull more and more money out of the gamer, and tbh I think this has to do with the people at the helm of these companies not being actual gamers. They don't know what it is like to play the game and spend hours trying to earn something only for somebody else to **** on you with it. It's just become "Good Business" and the sad part is there are still players out there (kids and parents for example) that don't know any better and consistently feed their business model. CCP has fallen victim to the plague of microtransactions not because of greed but because the game is free to play. Any business model CCP pursues will fail because this game is crumbling due to its flawed core mechanics, and in a sick twisted way this justifies the microtransactions because it can be ridiculously frustrating at times just to play the game. I see a lot of posts about balancing vehicle, adding new weapons, or making new content but not a lot addressing the fact that the game doesn't run smoothly. Check out some reviews on youtube for Dust and listen to what they criticize https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avG40vUQtG0 the only thing that gives even a mediocre score is the connection to EvE (or what they anticipate it will become). Microtransactions are used to fuel the development of free to play games, but not enough people play and use them to keep the game afloat.
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 366	Posted - 2015.05.08 14:22:00 - [8] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation. The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort. Is this really the path we want Dust to go down? It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives. There really has to be a better way. Good job hitting the nail on the head. I would say this is not the way we want this to go but considering this game is still in Beta, I think we can expect a fail cascade after a liberal hosing of players cash extraction then everyone going over to the PS4/XBox Live/PC. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6495	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:01:00 - [9] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well This is a major problem. One of my members donated 72 million isk to my Corp and asked me to transfer it to his alt, only he did not talk to me in advance, so between verifying that both accounts belonged to the same player, and some real life stuff getting in the way, it took two days before the ISK was transferred. If this becomes common it will be a real pain for Corporate management to have to deal with all the ISK transfers. The bar needs to be a lot lower for ISK transfer. Also, for trading it should be either Loyalty Rank 4, OR a Faction Warfare Rank (Not sure if 4 would be equivalent). They need a way to grind for Trading privileges in game in a predictable and understandable way. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6495	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:03:00 - [10] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: It's also come to my attention that you can completely bypass the ISK block by just sending directly to a corporation without even being a member. This litereally does nothing to stop the warbarge farming while harming legitimate players. Seems like an handy service for anyone who already has an ISK exchange business... Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11592	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:24:00 - [11] - Quote The problem facing alts looking to farm newsletter items is that these items can only be redeemed once and the accounts will have to be created before the date of the newsletter item is released. So if you create an account today, you will not be able to get any of the old free items like the boosters, officer stuff, etc. You will have to wait until new ones come out and that alone is a deterrence. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11592	Posted - 2015.05.08 15:34:00 - [12] - Quote One more thing I forgot to mention. Microtransactions are a slippery slope in some ways and I am pretty sure the folks at Extra Credits can explain it better than me. Microtransactions don't seem to have any negative impact on Eve Online because CCP has been rather careful up to this point with the introduction of the Noble Exchange (NeX) store which later evolved into the New Eden store especially with ship SKINs. However, microtransactions had a negative impact on Dust 514 not because of its nature because of how Dust was mishandled by CCP in the very beginning. Had CCP Rattati taken over development from the beginning, we would have seen Dust flourish like Eve did in regards to microtransactions. But because of the screw ups especially by the old executive producer (before CCP Rouge came in), we're in this situation now and it's up to CCP Rattati to figure out how to get it right. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Cypher Nil Fireteam Tempest 287	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:25:00 - [13] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation. The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort. Is this really the path we want Dust to go down? It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives. There really has to be a better way. You cant farm newsletter items with alts, the alt account has to be made before the newsletter item is on offer. If i made an alt account today and tried to redeem even one newsletter item the system would to allow me. if someone is actually going to pay a ton of money to passivly farm a small amount of ISK I say let them. CCP gets more funding n++pâçGòÉS+Ç 28+ Million SP Merc n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Of course we won, now when do I get paid?
Cypher Nil Fireteam Tempest 287	Posted - 2015.05.09 01:29:00 - [14] - Quote DJINN Jecture wrote: Good job hitting the nail on the head. I would say this is not the way we want this to go but considering this game is still in Beta, I think we can expect a fail cascade after a liberal hosing of players cash extraction then everyone going over to the PS4/XBox Live/PC. AHAHAHAHAAH "still in beta" good one. If a game makes money in any way its a shipped game. this game has been out of beta for years n++pâçGòÉS+Ç 28+ Million SP Merc n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Of course we won, now when do I get paid?
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1540	Posted - 2015.05.09 02:44:00 - [15] - Quote Cypher Nil wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Good job hitting the nail on the head. I would say this is not the way we want this to go but considering this game is still in Beta, I think we can expect a fail cascade after a liberal hosing of players cash extraction then everyone going over to the PS4/XBox Live/PC. AHAHAHAHAAH "still in beta" good one. If a game makes money in any way its a shipped game. this game has been out of beta for years Apparently Sar Citizen must be on its 2nd or 3rd sequel then.... "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1229	Posted - 2015.05.10 00:48:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: One more thing I forgot to mention. However, microtransactions had a negative impact on Dust 514 not because of its nature because of how Dust was mishandled by CCP in the very beginning. What is this negative impact you're talking about? Is that your opinion or are there facts behind that statement? !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
thor424 Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 162	Posted - 2015.05.10 03:22:00 - [17] - Quote Cypher Nil wrote: Kain Spero wrote: It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation. The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort. Is this really the path we want Dust to go down? It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives. There really has to be a better way. You cant farm newsletter items with alts, the alt account has to be made before the newsletter item is on offer. If i made an alt account today and tried to redeem even one newsletter item the system would to allow me. if someone is actually going to pay a ton of money to passivly farm a small amount of ISK I say let them. CCP gets more funding Unless this is a recent change you are mistaken. Thor's Emporium
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11609	Posted - 2015.05.10 03:59:00 - [18] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: One more thing I forgot to mention. However, microtransactions had a negative impact on Dust 514 not because of its nature because of how Dust was mishandled by CCP in the very beginning. What is this negative impact you're talking about? Is that your opinion or are there facts behind that statement? The negative impact I was referring to is rooted in the BPOs. They present a bit of a problem later on once simple crafting is implemented which now does not seem that far off from the realm of possibility at this point. If we ever get a chance later down the line to develop STD, ADV, and PRO gear, the BPOs (as they are) would cause a problem for the STD gear market since a couple of BPOs exist that seem to have some STD level features compared to the MLT level BPOs. These would undercut the manufacturers of these items. A proposal I would make is to restrict manufacturing to ADV level gear and above so that the MLT and STD level BPOs won't have an impact on the future of Dust industry. But then there are the recently changed APEX suits to deal with which are PRO level. But of course we all know their CPU/PG availability are less than that of even the ADV level ISK variants so maybe they won't have much of an impact on industry. But as time moves on and as these BPOs become more and more redundant especially after the introduction of SKINs and with players being able to earn more ISK by selling off rare items to other players, there will come a time when one would ask what to do with them. I have a Cardiac Stimulant BPO (yellow bottles) which was made redundant and even useless by the introduction of the Cardiac Regulators which means I wasted AUR on this BPO for nothing. It's now nothing more than a collector's item. Much like my 'Kindred' Scout suit which is now the same color as a regular suit and is only made rare because of its name. This presents a situation where the resell value of permanent items drop over time because of redundancy even if we ever get a chance to trade them with other players. The only reason they are still somewhat useful today is because APEX suits can now be edited which has enabled me to find a new use for these BPOs with the exception of the Cardiac Stimulant BPO. But even then, I don't know how long that benefit will last and I'm already seeing a problem which I will mention in a moment. This is the main reason why I stopped buying BPOs and only get any through salvage. I see their future as a bit bleak to be honest and that is the negative impact that we have already with Dust. Some people I spoke with are telling me that they are already useless. What is the point in purchasing a MLT profile dampener if one of the APEX suits you bought already comes with it along with others for a good price? Boosters, respecs, and other AUR consumables are ok because they are consumable and thus can maintain their resell value for a long time. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10014	Posted - 2015.05.10 14:18:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: One more thing I forgot to mention. Microtransactions are a slippery slope in some ways and I am pretty sure the folks at Extra Credits can explain it better than me. Microtransactions don't seem to have any negative impact on Eve Online because CCP has been rather careful up to this point with the introduction of the Noble Exchange (NeX) store which later evolved into the New Eden store especially with ship SKINs. However, microtransactions had a negative impact on Dust 514 not because of its nature because of how Dust was mishandled by CCP in the very beginning. Had CCP Rattati taken over development from the beginning, we would have seen Dust flourish like Eve did in regards to microtransactions. But because of the screw ups especially by the old executive producer (before CCP Rouge came in), we're in this situation now and it's up to CCP Rattati to figure out how to get it right. Bearing in mind that it was under CCP Rattati that APEX BPO's and, now, APEX customization became a thing. You guys are like a broken record with this "CPM material" business xD Let it go
DUST Fiend 16980	Posted - 2015.05.10 14:39:00 - [20] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Cypher Nil wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Good job hitting the nail on the head. I would say this is not the way we want this to go but considering this game is still in Beta, I think we can expect a fail cascade after a liberal hosing of players cash extraction then everyone going over to the PS4/XBox Live/PC. AHAHAHAHAAH "still in beta" good one. If a game makes money in any way its a shipped game. this game has been out of beta for years Apparently Sar Citizen must be on its 2nd or 3rd sequel then.... Beat me to it haha Dat FPS module though drools This thread is now a dance party ~ Dances Boldly ~ DUST STUFF

Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6512	Posted - 2015.05.10 15:12:00 - [21] - Quote I don't like the war barge as it is. I prefer someone else's suggestion (which makes more sense), of changing the war barge to giving you market discounts. Because what do you have on your ship that's making all that money? A shoe factory? Some details can be ignored
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 683	Posted - 2015.05.10 18:24:00 - [22] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: It seeems the problems caused by the passive generation of the warbarge have no end. First was barring trading from newer characters to counteract alts farming newsletter items (seems like removing newsletter items would have made more sense) and now ISK transfers are behind a Loyalty rank wall as well to curtail passive barge ISK generation. The problem here is that if someone is willing to pay cash to get their character to rank 4 then they seem to be free to use the barges however they choose. In effect CCP doesn't seem to have a desire to actually solve the ISK exploits. They just want to make sure they have their pound of flesh before you go on your merry way generating ISK and items with no effort. Is this really the path we want Dust to go down? It doesn't really seem to make sense to continue punishing the playerbase as a whole for the design flaws in the current warbarge system and even the newsletter incentives. There really has to be a better way. If someone is so hard up on isk that they will bother figuring out some way to exploit, then go ahead, fucks sake its so sad that people cant manage their isk.
DJINN Jecture Templar of the Glowing Blade 366	Posted - 2015.05.11 06:25:00 - [23] - Quote Cypher Nil wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: Good job hitting the nail on the head. I would say this is not the way we want this to go but considering this game is still in Beta, I think we can expect a fail cascade after a liberal hosing of players cash extraction then everyone going over to the PS4/XBox Live/PC. AHAHAHAHAAH "still in beta" good one. If a game makes money in any way its a shipped game. this game has been out of beta for years Well considering I still use my beta bpos, i would suggest you may not be correct, those I spent money on. A Beta is typically a game or product in which the builders are still fixing mistakes in it's design, often trying new things and fixes to makes things better day by day. This is why I say this game is still in Beta, and considering this is the Legion Beta, I would say it is still in Beta. *-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!* *ß¦äß¦â-à*


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