DUST Search - If SKINs manage to free up more in game memory...

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:

VAHZZ wrote:

How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology?

Wow you are seriously behind.

Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory.

Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem.

Think mediums.

-militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3.
10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used...

Do not forget that every suit now has several variations. Variants like ISK, LP, AUR, APEX BPO, LP BPO, and whatever other BPOs may exist of that suit such as templars, svers, and dragonflies. This means that on average there is like 3 - 5 variations of every single suit. Almost no two people on the field at once are wearing the same variants which means that 31 suits, your weapons, and then every vehicle variant is also being crammed into the PS3 memory.

Adding skins to suits to reduce this to as low as 6 or 8 suit models being stored in memory for a given match. I do not know the exact size of all these models or the size of the maps in memory but I can still say that stands to free up quite a bit of memory and stands to be one of the greatest optimizations that has happened to this game.

Not to diss but... Doesn't that mean it was kinda... "sloppy" choices from the beginning of Dust, which (relating back to IWS saying Dust has so many variables) complicates things with no apparent reason?

Forget it! This explains the lag facility so well...
While we are at it, give equipment and weapons the same model....

It trims off so much fat!
I'll go buy aurum for this... The devs deserve a fat pay cheque

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Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6107	Posted - 2015.04.19 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote Could that memory be put toward balancing the asset count for each race? I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1354	Posted - 2015.04.19 05:50:00 - [2] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Could that memory be put toward balancing the asset count for each race? Wait im confused...what exactly do SKINs do?? Remove the uneeded different recolored suits? I know you wan't it *(a+ç -á° -ƒ+ä-£ -í°)a+ç*
VAHZZ Arrary of Clusters 1438	Posted - 2015.04.19 05:53:00 - [3] - Quote How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed.
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1354	Posted - 2015.04.19 05:56:00 - [4] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... I know you wan't it *(a+ç -á° -ƒ+ä-£ -í°)a+ç*
Seed Dren G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 141	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:00:00 - [5] - Quote Hey, if it does free up more memory. Moarz for Duzt
VAHZZ Arrary of Clusters 1438	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:05:00 - [6] - Quote Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... OK then If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7690	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:42:00 - [7] - Quote Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1359	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:45:00 - [8] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... Its a guess...idk what they are going to actually do with them. I know you wan't it *(a+ç -á° -ƒ+ä-£ -í°)a+ç*
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 7690	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:46:00 - [9] - Quote Golden Day wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... Its a guess...idk what they are going to actually do with them. Oh... Well i'm here to confirm then, Yes SKINS are a EVE thing, they are going to use them for EVE. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/a-glimpse-into-the-future-of-ship-skins/ Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll take your districts and hurt you. Get Dust ISK Here
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1359	Posted - 2015.04.19 06:52:00 - [10] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... Its a guess...idk what they are going to actually do with them. Maybe they will implant this into dust or not... I know you wan't it *(a+ç -á° -ƒ+ä-£ -í°)a+ç*

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 19330	Posted - 2015.04.19 08:49:00 - [11] - Quote sorry goals are to hit much higher FPS CPM 1, Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
Slave of MORTE 382	Posted - 2015.04.19 09:01:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: sorry goals are to hit much higher FPS Best goal ever if you can make it to 3 fps consistently I'll give you guys lolipops I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1266	Posted - 2015.04.19 09:19:00 - [13] - Quote So wait.... you're telling me that all these suits don't just swap the UV map out, but the ENTIRE model? Holy hell... From a programming perspective that is... horribly poor design, and from a practical perspective... it's a ton of extra work. For those who don't know, a UV is basically an image that you bend around an object like a decal, and in terms of use, it's like slapping on a different sticker instead of making an entire new model. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 759	Posted - 2015.04.19 10:21:00 - [14] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... There you go: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2718464#post2718464
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2678	Posted - 2015.04.19 13:16:00 - [15] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: So wait.... you're telling me that all these suits don't just swap the UV map out, but the ENTIRE model? Holy hell... From a programming perspective that is... horribly poor design, and from a practical perspective... it's a ton of extra work. For those who don't know, a UV is basically an image that you bend around an object like a decal, and in terms of use, it's like slapping on a different sticker instead of making an entire new model. Yes, it's mind-bogglingly bad planning/design/decision-making, and there's little doubt that there are similar gains to be had from tearing down or fixing other chunks of Dust's code. It's well worth the investment because anything we squeeze out of Dust on PS3 will benefit us on the next platform(with the exception of what's specific to the PS3's cell architecture). Finding these efficiencies is not a moot point on the 10 times or more powerful platforms, because what Rattati & crew accomplish here will give us bigger battles when we move. The entire game was designed around big battles, what we accomplish on PS3 will help to get us there. One of the biggest issues that hasn't seen much attention, in public at least, it the database lag associated with the Dust-CREST-Tranquility connection. We definitely need to do better there. PSN: RationalSpark
Haerr Negative-Feedback 2771	Posted - 2015.04.19 13:49:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: sorry goals are to hit much higher FPS Awesome! Could you forward a request to check out these two things? Vehicle Shield Flares Swarm Explosions They seem to slow down the game and make the controls unresponsive, especially noticeable while in 1st person view while in a vehicle. (Close proximity seems to be part of the issue) Selling Officer Gear, Rates updated
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6110	Posted - 2015.04.19 14:24:00 - [17] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Golden Day wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? I think the plan is to remove all the dropsuits with different colors then put in SKINs that will take up less memory sense with SKINs you will be able to put them on.... They plan to do this for EVE.... Never heard of it as even a sort of a plan for anything dust related... Aeon Amadi found the SKINs in the Market on Singularity and posted about them here, and Rattati confirmed them in that same thread. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: sorry goals are to hit much higher FPS I realize that's a stated goal, but he also said it might not have any effect on FPS at all. Given the way the current re-colored suits work, I believe I recall mention that removing those as separate assets might reduce memory consumed in-game. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1274	Posted - 2015.04.20 08:45:00 - [18] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: sorry goals are to hit much higher FPS I realize that's a stated goal, but he also said it might not have any effect on FPS at all. Given the way the current re-colored suits work, I believe I recall mention that removing those as separate assets might reduce memory consumed in-game. If they were indeed using new models for each color suit, instead of a UV, then YES it will make a difference. Each model has to be loaded in, and the computer has to simulate out each model's motion structure, on top of coloring the suits. I could imagine a lot of internet load being truncated by this, because it would then have to load a single model, with a single motion set, and change the color by a texture number. If they did this model thing for all variants of uplinks, nanohives etc... it would then make a LOT of sense for why item spam clogged up many people's connections. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
LOOKMOM NOHANDS 531	Posted - 2015.04.20 09:31:00 - [19] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 763	Posted - 2015.04.20 10:24:00 - [20] - Quote It also have the positive side effect that each change of base stats for the suites doesn't have to be duplicated for each model (yes, each have their own identity and stats in the database). Thus if the max shield, slots etc is modified for Caldari Medium Assualt, they only have to change it once. Today they have to change each individual suite separately (Raven, Covenant, Origin etc), which is why we sometimes have old suites that are "forgotten" and have old stats and slot layout.

Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 348	Posted - 2015.04.20 11:23:00 - [21] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... The ADS tourney! Join today!
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6144	Posted - 2015.04.20 11:32:00 - [22] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Exactly. The hope is that we might regain enough resources to get some new assets in, though that in no way means anyone should expect that. Like Rattati was saying, he thinks this change will at least up the framerate a bit, but we don't actually know what the full impact will be yet. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
LOOKMOM NOHANDS 533	Posted - 2015.04.20 11:57:00 - [23] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Do not forget that every suit now has several variations. Variants like ISK, LP, AUR, APEX BPO, LP BPO, and whatever other BPOs may exist of that suit such as templars, svers, and dragonflies. This means that on average there is like 3 - 5 variations of every single suit. Almost no two people on the field at once are wearing the same variants which means that 31 suits, your weapons, and then every vehicle variant is also being crammed into the PS3 memory. Adding skins to suits to reduce this to as low as 6 or 8 suit models being stored in memory for a given match. I do not know the exact size of all these models or the size of the maps in memory but I can still say that stands to free up quite a bit of memory and stands to be one of the greatest optimizations that has happened to this game.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 349	Posted - 2015.04.20 12:36:00 - [24] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Do not forget that every suit now has several variations. Variants like ISK, LP, AUR, APEX BPO, LP BPO, and whatever other BPOs may exist of that suit such as templars, svers, and dragonflies. This means that on average there is like 3 - 5 variations of every single suit. Almost no two people on the field at once are wearing the same variants which means that 31 suits, your weapons, and then every vehicle variant is also being crammed into the PS3 memory. Adding skins to suits to reduce this to as low as 6 or 8 suit models being stored in memory for a given match. I do not know the exact size of all these models or the size of the maps in memory but I can still say that stands to free up quite a bit of memory and stands to be one of the greatest optimizations that has happened to this game. Not to diss but... Doesn't that mean it was kinda... "sloppy" choices from the beginning of Dust, which (relating back to IWS saying Dust has so many variables) complicates things with no apparent reason? Forget it! This explains the lag facility so well... While we are at it, give equipment and weapons the same model.... It trims off so much fat! I'll go buy aurum for this... The devs deserve a fat pay cheque The ADS tourney! Join today!
BAD FURRY Oh No You Didn't 844	Posted - 2015.04.20 12:43:00 - [25] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Could that memory be put toward balancing the asset count for each race? this game all ready looks like a moded N64 lets not go messing with skins anymore plz. if you want to free up memory we need to look at the maps them self,s as well as background noise,s like hearing a AR over 200 m away as well as shadows and boom Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6145	Posted - 2015.04.20 13:04:00 - [26] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Do not forget that every suit now has several variations. Variants like ISK, LP, AUR, APEX BPO, LP BPO, and whatever other BPOs may exist of that suit such as templars, svers, and dragonflies. This means that on average there is like 3 - 5 variations of every single suit. Almost no two people on the field at once are wearing the same variants which means that 31 suits, your weapons, and then every vehicle variant is also being crammed into the PS3 memory. Adding skins to suits to reduce this to as low as 6 or 8 suit models being stored in memory for a given match. I do not know the exact size of all these models or the size of the maps in memory but I can still say that stands to free up quite a bit of memory and stands to be one of the greatest optimizations that has happened to this game. Not to diss but... Doesn't that mean it was kinda... "sloppy" choices from the beginning of Dust, which (relating back to IWS saying Dust has so many variables) complicates things with no apparent reason? Forget it! This explains the lag facility so well... While we are at it, give equipment and weapons the same model.... It trims off so much fat! I'll go buy aurum for this... The devs deserve a fat pay cheque That's exactly what that means. It's part of why I don't miss CCP Jian because he obviously had no idea what he was doing as far as managing a team. I hope that Dust being profitable encourages CCP to give Rattati some more people to work with. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1709	Posted - 2015.04.20 14:56:00 - [27] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Because of the way Catma works. Some items have several hundred attributes all ranging from how much HP your suit has to what animation should be shown when you die in that suit. All of these values require memory and because Python is a dynamically typed language. Some perspective: A 0 int takes up 12 bytes A 0 float(real number) takes 16 bytes A blank string takes 21 bytes Catma has over 3000 types all with hundreds of attributes all taking up memory. With the SKIN system the SKIN type will just have basic attributes referring to which assets to use and what suits it can be used on so there are less copies of an Assault C-1 all with the same attributes taking up more memory. Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6149	Posted - 2015.04.20 15:01:00 - [28] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Because of the way Catma works. Some items have several hundred attributes all ranging from how much HP your suit has to what animation should be shown when you die in that suit. All of these values require memory and because Python is a dynamically typed language. Some perspective: A 0 int takes up 12 bytes A 0 float(real number) takes 16 bytes A blank string takes 21 bytes Catma has over 3000 types all with hundreds of attributes all taking up memory. With the SKIN system the SKIN type will just have basic attributes referring to which assets to use and what suits it can be used on so there are less copies of an Assault C-1 all with the same attributes taking up more memory. I am so glad that some people can understand this stuff and translate it for everyone else. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 10212	Posted - 2015.04.20 15:27:00 - [29] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Exactly. The hope is that we might regain enough resources to get some new assets in, though that in no way means anyone should expect that. Like Rattati was saying, he thinks this change will at least up the framerate a bit, but we don't actually know what the full impact will be yet. All our PS3s will biomass *As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP*
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 352	Posted - 2015.04.20 16:00:00 - [30] - Quote THUNDER, is there a reason why somethings aren't stored as a Byte / UByte? Like bolt pistol ammo for example. The ADS tourney! Join today!

Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6150	Posted - 2015.04.20 16:17:00 - [31] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: VAHZZ wrote: How the hell will SKINs free up memory? Are you new to technology? Wow you are seriously behind. Currently every variation of every suit is stored in memory as a different model. The actual reason for skins is to combine all similar suits down to a single model with a different skin applied which has the potential to free up some serious amounts of memory. Different models for each suit?! Oh man... that's Like... A fundamental problem. Think mediums. -militia, basic medium x3, assault x3, logistics x3. 10 models.... That's plenty of resources unnecessarily used... Exactly. The hope is that we might regain enough resources to get some new assets in, though that in no way means anyone should expect that. Like Rattati was saying, he thinks this change will at least up the framerate a bit, but we don't actually know what the full impact will be yet. All our PS3s will biomass Forcing all of us to abandon them for high-end gaming PCs and transitioning the entire community over to EVE: Legion in one fell swoop. #IlluminatiConfirmed I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1714	Posted - 2015.04.24 20:56:00 - [32] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: THUNDER, is there a reason why somethings aren't stored as a Byte / UByte? Like bolt pistol ammo for example. Yes because the entire Catma database is a Python pickle(serialized object) This means that it's stuck to Python's base-types: Quote: int float long complex str unicode list tuple bytearray buffer set frozenset dict It would be more memory efficient if they scrapped all of the Python but it's just what CCP has used for over a decade. Plus Python being dynamic is a huge gain in terms of writabilty. Sure it's not so bad in the world of generics but doing math against multiple types in a statically typed language isn't fun. Trust me I've tried Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.


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