DUST Search - To Rattati: Redoing the assault swarm launcher

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Honestly? There needs to be a lot of work there. Current swarms are 65/sec. 60 isnt fast eenough for a reliable engagement.

Past that? I Cannot say I'm against separating out AA swarms from tankbusters. Problem with that though is inevitability.

Sooner or later you WILL find a situation where the swarm tank smash version will find a way to paste a DS.

Increasing the alpha on the heavy swarms without dropping the RoF sharply will actually make them more lethal.

I'm rambling, by the way. I would need to crunch numbers to see how viable thidea is.

I also need to familiarize myself with dropships because this adds another wrinkle to the equation, that being chase speed, which will affect the DPS of the weapon. Calculating vs HAVs is easy. You don't have to account for them rolling out of range.

I'll play with it.

Maybe we can tie the lock mechanics to Db? Set the big swarms to lock based on profile. Higher profile = faster lock.

the other problem with the idea is the fact that if swarm damage is dropped then DS will always escape Before the killshot hits.

I hate the weapons because they're a binary solution. Either they're OP as hell, or they're worthless with no middle ground

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Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3016	Posted - 2015.04.17 23:28:00 - [1] - Quote Spreadsheet The reason for this is to introduce balance for AV/DS combat while not making swarms useless when engaging tanks. Currently swarms are expected to have enough damage to kill tanks while being fas enough to catch dropships, which have lower health values. Basic premise is to make the assault swarm launcher be "anti-air" and make the base swarm launcher be "anti-armor." This is accomplished by tweaking the stats on the base swarm to make them slower, but hit harder than now, while decreasing damage on the assault swarm, but buffing it's ability to engage targets through faster missiles and longer lock range. Other stats, such as missile acceleration were also tweaked. Details in spreadsheet. The end goal is to have the assault swarms be better for catching up to and hitting dropships, while having less punch due to dropships' lower health. The base swarm is in turn tweaked to be better suited to engaging tanks. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8155	Posted - 2015.04.18 11:54:00 - [2] - Quote Honestly? There needs to be a lot of work there. Current swarms are 65/sec. 60 isnt fast eenough for a reliable engagement. Past that? I Cannot say I'm against separating out AA swarms from tankbusters. Problem with that though is inevitability. Sooner or later you WILL find a situation where the swarm tank smash version will find a way to paste a DS. Increasing the alpha on the heavy swarms without dropping the RoF sharply will actually make them more lethal. I'm rambling, by the way. I would need to crunch numbers to see how viable thidea is. I also need to familiarize myself with dropships because this adds another wrinkle to the equation, that being chase speed, which will affect the DPS of the weapon. Calculating vs HAVs is easy. You don't have to account for them rolling out of range. I'll play with it. Maybe we can tie the lock mechanics to Db? Set the big swarms to lock based on profile. Higher profile = faster lock. the other problem with the idea is the fact that if swarm damage is dropped then DS will always escape Before the killshot hits. I hate the weapons because they're a binary solution. Either they're OP as hell, or they're worthless with no middle ground AV
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 767	Posted - 2015.04.18 16:51:00 - [3] - Quote I agree and approve. If we drop the assault swarms damage but increase lock speed so that they have an overall drop in dps against armour in general then that might be workable. Like Breakin Stuff said, making them work against profile size would be smart too. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 3019	Posted - 2015.04.18 17:19:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Honestly? There needs to be a lot of work there. Current swarms are 65/sec. 60 isnt fast eenough for a reliable engagement. Past that? I Cannot say I'm against separating out AA swarms from tankbusters. Problem with that though is inevitability. Sooner or later you WILL find a situation where the swarm tank smash version will find a way to paste a DS. Increasing the alpha on the heavy swarms without dropping the RoF sharply will actually make them more lethal. I'm rambling, by the way. I would need to crunch numbers to see how viable thidea is. I also need to familiarize myself with dropships because this adds another wrinkle to the equation, that being chase speed, which will affect the DPS of the weapon. Calculating vs HAVs is easy. You don't have to account for them rolling out of range. I'll play with it. Maybe we can tie the lock mechanics to Db? Set the big swarms to lock based on profile. Higher profile = faster lock. the other problem with the idea is the fact that if swarm damage is dropped then DS will always escape Before the killshot hits. I hate the weapons because they're a binary solution. Either they're OP as hell, or they're worthless with no middle ground This is an attempt to correct that. The right tool for the right job. The only DS that will get pasted are those that try and stay in an area and tank the swarms. They will have deserved to die. Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1259	Posted - 2015.04.18 17:36:00 - [5] - Quote If swarms required the user to follow their target with a targeting laser, like the rocket launcher in Half Life, they would probably be more balanced. The only thing is that they wouldn't change targets if you switched vehicles, they would only pursue faster if pointed at the correct target... etc. Such would permit higher output, but at the same time make many dropships harder to down, because they would require more planing to shoot at, as when they are no longer under the user's laser they would follow a bit more sloppily. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6122	Posted - 2015.04.19 17:29:00 - [6] - Quote I like this idea. It helps to provide AV balance using what we have available now rather than trying to spitball additional featuers that CCP Rattati's team is probably ill-equipped to implement. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels Learning Alliance 141	Posted - 2015.04.20 05:01:00 - [7] - Quote how about swarm launchers with either flux or AV missile ammo? The chat channel 'player trade' is open for adding contacts and placing item advertisements in game.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2015.04.20 05:37:00 - [8] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: If swarms required the user to follow their target with a targeting laser, like the rocket launcher in Half Life, they would probably be more balanced. The only thing is that they wouldn't change targets if you switched vehicles, they would only pursue faster if pointed at the correct target... etc. Such would permit higher output, but at the same time make many dropships harder to down, because they would require more planing to shoot at, as when they are no longer under the user's laser they would follow a bit more sloppily. They would become useless then because of how easy it is in nearly every circumstance for vehicles to go behind a building very quickly. This is why swarms have become the default AV, not Forges. Because swarms can actually chase a running vehicle, Forges can't. And yes, separating them the 'Tank Buster' would still be a threat to DS's, but it would be easy to avoid, especially if you give it a lower maximum range also to reflect the heavier warhead, while the light AA variant could have a slightly longer lock range again and longer range to make it hard to avoid them simply by flying up.


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