DUST Search - Proposal for FW player equilibrium

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

There are two types of FW players: those who are loyal to their chosen factions, and those who would fight for any side without any loyalty. I believe the latter group can be used to quantitatively balance FW sides, and make battles start faster.

Right now players move away from losing factions because they want to actually win, and they want the rewards that come from winning. This is a problem because it leads to losing factions being underpopulated, and this makes battles take forever to start.

A possible solution is to make losing factions give an LP bonus (you can see which factions are winning and losing on the star map). This bonus would incentivize the non-loyal players to play for the losing factions instead of against them, and thus get battles starting faster.

How much this bonus should be is debatable, but it is important that loyal players are still rewarded in the long term, so that means the losing faction bonus should never be as good as a high standing LP bonus. Short term good rewards for the faction-hoppers, and long term even greater rewards for the loyal players.

Some might appose this on principle because it rewards the failure factions, but I see it as a matter of pragmatic necessity -- I shouldn't have to wait 10+ minutes to find a battle in an FPS; its embarrassing for the game.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12263	Posted - 2015.04.17 02:47:00 - [1] - Quote There are two types of FW players: those who are loyal to their chosen factions, and those who would fight for any side without any loyalty. I believe the latter group can be used to quantitatively balance FW sides, and make battles start faster. Right now players move away from losing factions because they want to actually win, and they want the rewards that come from winning. This is a problem because it leads to losing factions being underpopulated, and this makes battles take forever to start. A possible solution is to make losing factions give an LP bonus (you can see which factions are winning and losing on the star map). This bonus would incentivize the non-loyal players to play for the losing factions instead of against them, and thus get battles starting faster. How much this bonus should be is debatable, but it is important that loyal players are still rewarded in the long term, so that means the losing faction bonus should never be as good as a high standing LP bonus. Short term good rewards for the faction-hoppers, and long term even greater rewards for the loyal players. Some might appose this on principle because it rewards the failure factions, but I see it as a matter of pragmatic necessity -- I shouldn't have to wait 10+ minutes to find a battle in an FPS; its embarrassing for the game. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Archduke Ferd1nand Nos Nothi 360	Posted - 2015.04.17 03:30:00 - [2] - Quote +1 BRB, looking for socks PSN: tommygunboy2080 I shit shotgun shells and piss Remote Explosives
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 3532	Posted - 2015.04.17 03:52:00 - [3] - Quote I like this, and it rewards true loyalty through thick and thin. Shotguns are made of a Scandium-Ruthenium-Boron enhanced alloy First to PM me with common name wins
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2673	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:02:00 - [4] - Quote +1. It works. PSN: RationalSpark
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18308	Posted - 2015.04.17 04:05:00 - [5] - Quote Kinda works. Though I think you under estimate the amount of player who don't give a **** about the faction but do want their content. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12270	Posted - 2015.04.17 19:26:00 - [6] - Quote Any more thoughts? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12272	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:16:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Kinda works. Though I think you under estimate the amount of player who don't give a ** about the faction but do want their content. I'd count that as within the "loyal" group, despite the motive being different. If they fight for apposing factions to get LP goods from both sides, then I count them as the other group, and my proposal could still incentivize them to fight for the losing side. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+**
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 732	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:19:00 - [8] - Quote "I only have suits in one faction and I can't win that one, CCP HAALLLPPP!!!" Kinda what I got from that >.> The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 604	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:25:00 - [9] - Quote Isn't it true that the LP store had a hand in this? Saying what's on people's minds
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12273	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:34:00 - [10] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: "I only have suits in one faction and I can't win that one, CCP HAALLLPPP!!!" Kinda what I got from that >.> I have suits in 3 races, and all proto. A proto suit for every role, and 2 proto suits for assaults. I have no interest in fighting for Caldari, and I would never fight for Amarr on principle. I don't even use the LP store for anything but complex myofibril stimulants, and that's just until I get the skill to 5, but other than that, I don't care at all about my LP. I already have all the suits and weapons, equipment, and every single modules (besides the myos) that I actually want to prototype, and beyond. My supreme perfect form is almost complete. I am almost beyond LP. NOTHING in my proposal would actually help losing factions actually win, the purpose of the proposal is to get battles starting faster. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 756	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote I am all for rewarding loyalty (am a Caldari nut myself), but I don't think the solution is tempting players to "choose the loosing side". Why you say? Because there are no loosing sides in FW (Dust side) anymore. Before the last FW update we had an unstable system, which basically meant after a sertain tipping point one faction ended up with 100% of the districts, and the other 0%. Very few battels spawned at all for the faction owning all the districts, and it was almost impossible to find any matches. Once a distric flipped, it was immediately flipped back. (Side note: those times were acctually good times for EVE OB pilots who could fairly accurately predict were the battles were going to take place... But that is another story) Then came the change that made battles types spawn based on how many districts the faction owned. The fewer districts, the more attack contracts were issued and vice versa. Now we have a too stable system, with region ownership that hover around 50% for all factions at all times, even deep into stable regions EVE side. I wish CCP could do another overhaul of the battle spawning in FW, to make the regions reflect what is going on EVE side a little more. If FW became more involving and players more invested in their faction, we would see more players migrate over and thus queue times shorten.
DDx77 The Exemplars 202	Posted - 2015.04.17 20:56:00 - [12] - Quote (Disclaimer: I have a thought but haven't thought about potential problems with it :/ & I don't understand how FW affects district / planet holding and even if it actually does something to this effect.) But let's say FW does allow some form of district/land ownership & What if that planet/district/land (whatever you want to call it) had a small effect on your racial weapons? Whatever faction is the majority land/ district owner will receive the bonus Players would receive tiered bonus' to racial weapons based on their loyalty rank with that faction These bonus' would take effect and remain in place for two weeks An example of this might be: Let's just say Amarr ended up owning the most districts after a two week period The bonus is .004 reduction to laser weapon heat buildup per Amarr loyalty rank level This stays in effect unless in the following two weeks another faction takes over and owns the most districts/land I'm just ape-ing the assault bonus for the example but these bonus' could obviously be a lot more interesting ( how about a new factional weapon with a weapon bonus equal to your loyalty rank?) May the Dark shine your way
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1043	Posted - 2015.04.17 21:02:00 - [13] - Quote Remove the random pubs like FW... Replace it with a list of proposed battles that people can join... Your FW rewards are based on how loyal you've been to each faction, going down with the others when you fight against them. Add in an isk fee, that mercenaries recieve on accepting an FW contract. The fee will change depending on who you're about to fight and where that fight is taking place... Further from home, more chance of getting barraged from space and less chance your team will get any support, hence a higher payout... But if you're loyal, you'll fight anywhere for your delusional beliefs! Also, deduct isk from the fee relative to gear that doesn't sport that factions logo! Boom! Now FW isn't just pubs with a different payout.
Scheneighnay McBob And the ButtPirates 6071	Posted - 2015.04.17 21:51:00 - [14] - Quote I like, along with the current proposal we may soon be seeing- CCP Rattati wrote: What if Skirmish, as the most tactical game mode becomes FW only. Players that want to play Skirmish will migrate over there, which in turn will make queuing shorter and more attractive. Domination, Ambush and maybe another Game mode will be in the Public Contracts, thematically "smaller affairs" which makes sense. Skirmish to me is taking over a district, for your own in PC or for a Faction in FW. To make the transition easier, we would add ISK rewards to FW so players can make LP and ISK at the same time. Solid ISK rewards to make it a closer match between PC and FW. To get rid of the AFKing, as obnoxious as it is, we would add a WP threshold to FW for all rewards. Some details can be ignored
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1935	Posted - 2015.04.17 22:30:00 - [15] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The OP post I have thought the same and actually expected CCP to do it one day. It really makes sense. About the argument "it's not right to give more rewards for the losing side": There is a strong counter argument that the winning /stomping faction are getting their rewards from their constant wins. Winning rewards you far better, remember? Both by end game rewards and by how little you lose stuff when you have a strong win. Lore should be ignored as always, but if someone question this on lore grounds: Empire faction losing ground has to put more resources to regain systems by hiring better mercs - increasing payouts, that is. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2676	Posted - 2015.04.17 23:22:00 - [16] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Any more thoughts? It's an old point and others have already brought it up itt, but the structure of the factional loyalty stores drives much of the player behavior in FW, excepting a relatively small hardcore group of cradle-to-grave loyalists. We need to find another way that doesn't force peeps to bounce from faction to faction chasing gear. What if we give the blue chick in our quarters a second job(minds out of the gutters, mercpigs): she could be our contact to the FW LP grey market - for a small fee, paid in ISK or LP, she'll sell our points onto the Disloyal Exchange and allow us to buy other faction's LP. Nobody needs to know. PSN: RationalSpark
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 155	Posted - 2015.04.17 23:32:00 - [17] - Quote It's easy to be loyal when your winning all the time. Loyalty becomes hard when you loose all the time. I bet a lot of players would change side quickly if Amar/Caldari started to Winn all the time. And the same the other way around. Loyalty is a question of LP payout and how many times you are willing to die/loose.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12286	Posted - 2015.04.21 07:08:00 - [18] - Quote I'm open to any other ideas that might reduce FW wait times Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
VALCORE72 Vengeance Unbound RUST415 299	Posted - 2015.04.21 10:59:00 - [19] - Quote fw needs to be split in 2 not 4 . gal and min then cal and amar . should make waiting times lower as well asian haters united lol .
Mobius Wyvern Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 6187	Posted - 2015.04.21 11:38:00 - [20] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: There are two types of FW players: those who are loyal to their chosen factions, and those who would fight for any side without any loyalty. I believe the latter group can be used to quantitatively balance FW sides, and make battles start faster. Right now players move away from losing factions because they want to actually win, and they want the rewards that come from winning. This is a problem because it leads to losing factions being underpopulated, and this makes battles take forever to start. A possible solution is to make losing factions give an LP bonus (you can see which factions are winning and losing on the star map). This bonus would incentivize the non-loyal players to play for the losing factions instead of against them, and thus get battles starting faster. How much this bonus should be is debatable, but it is important that loyal players are still rewarded in the long term, so that means the losing faction bonus should never be as good as a high standing LP bonus. Short term good rewards for the faction-hoppers, and long term even greater rewards for the loyal players. Some might appose this on principle because it rewards the failure factions, but I see it as a matter of pragmatic necessity -- I shouldn't have to wait 10+ minutes to find a battle in an FPS; its embarrassing for the game. Good to see you back to dropping the good ideas here. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha

VAHZZ Arrary of Clusters 1466	Posted - 2015.04.21 11:45:00 - [21] - Quote I only do Gallente FW, tried CalFW but then I felt dirty and quit. If you expect the worst, you'll never be disappointed.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8175	Posted - 2015.04.21 11:51:00 - [22] - Quote Side swapping is really only meaningful to mercs. Bluntly I wish we could introduce militia the way EVE does it. Not as "you must pick a side or not play." I think those who join a militia should gain 50% more standings gain and 30% additional LP. With the allied (cal/amarr, Gal/Min) faction you would gain half the bonus. But once you gain a loyalty rank above 6, if you swap sides, you must suffer loss to your standings until you are below a 6 to gain standings with the enemy. After you hit 5.9 you may commence standings gain and join the militia. All standings losses while enlisted in FW militia should be doubled. AV
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12417	Posted - 2015.05.13 02:05:00 - [23] - Quote I still think this is worth a try. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Golden Day Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 1734	Posted - 2015.05.13 02:32:00 - [24] - Quote Add a whole new update just for fw players lvl 5 faction rank you can create a faction corporation (50k lp 10mil isk to create one) You get notifactions of what districts are being attacked. Logistic officers can start up platoons and choose what districts to attack. FW is no longer rigged FW districts are given better bonuses to eve players (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!


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