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[Veteran_Justin Cawnerry]
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Posted - 2012.06.03 19:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can't count the number of kills I've missed because I moved in to melee but my rifle started the reload procedure. I think it would be awesome if you could melee and interrupt the loading sequence, even if the would restart the reloading process. |
[Veteran_Marcus Starcross]
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Posted - 2012.06.03 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree with this it'd be a nice feature to have. If I'm not watching my ammo I usually switch to my secondary to try and get the kill. |
[Veteran_stewey2 azule]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 02:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Completely agree, knife attack needs to take precedence over reloading, And you should be able to begin sprinting from a crouch |
[Veteran_Nadroj Isk]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 03:03:00 -
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Agree to all of these! knife also needs to do more damage |
[Veteran_Chaplin Marx]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 04:25:00 -
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Knife damage kills in three hits at standard damage on standard troops, why should it be more powerful? these are advanced suits that allow you to target, at some point call in air strikes etc... To say the knife needs to be more powerful is silly.
That being said, being able to knife instead of reloading would be great. But maybe we need to lose the ammo clip we are holding, since that would only make sense.
A bit issue I have with the knife mechanics is the fact you cannot knife people in turrets. They are right there, but knifing is a no-no. Need to fix that one. |
[Veteran_Grimmiers]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 04:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the knife training skill boost dmg up 10% each level. That's 50% at level 5 (duh). I forget the knife damage output, but since it's hard to use to finish off an opponent, or kill them from full health I would say it's quite useless right now.
If anyone did level knives up I'd like some feedback on how fast they can kill. |
[Veteran_Riffix Dathmor]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 04:59:00 -
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Maybe it's just me, but I think having a knife in this game is stupid. I think it is only there because it is there in other games which are equally stupid. In combat no on who is using a 2-handed rifle can quickly whip out a knife, get a good slash in, and PUT IT BACK IN SHEATH in the time it happens in this game. Not to mention that this is the future and I find it hard to believe that anything short of a lightsaber would do any damage to these dropsuits.
I think the only sane thing to do is make melee attacks something that is done with your weapon like in Halo. Seriously. |
[Veteran_Eco Esper]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
The knife's lore is that the edges are charged plasma, or something fancy, that actives upon impact. It's not just some plain butter knife. What I'd like to see happen is autoreload go away, may just be my experience but that half second animation could mean getting the kill. What I'd like to see happen with knives is you either holster you gun, or drop it, making it map to R1 after the R3 slash. Once it's out it will do more damage than a slash, but we don't want the knife OP'd so readjusting the damage would be needed. Maybe even throw in some skill books for knife handling and we'd start seeing some more space ninja infiltrations! |
[Veteran_Cantus]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:11:00 -
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Riffix Dathmor wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think having a knife in this game is stupid. I think it is only there because it is there in other games which are equally stupid. In combat no on who is using a 2-handed rifle can quickly whip out a knife, get a good slash in, and PUT IT BACK IN SHEATH in the time it happens in this game. Not to mention that this is the future and I find it hard to believe that anything short of a lightsaber would do any damage to these dropsuits.
I think the only sane thing to do is make melee attacks something that is done with your weapon like in Halo. Seriously.
Wrong. It is not because other games have the knife, except halo if you ignore the plasma sword. It is the fact that knives have always been an integral part of warfare from a historical point of view. Even today, our soldiers in the military, hell... in any military for that matter, still use the knife in close combat situations. No one is gonna get rid of it just because you don't like them.
Other than that, I do agree that the clip should be lost in the process of interrupting a reload. After all, the clip is empty anyways. |
[Veteran_0N31LL]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:12:00 -
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i agree to
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[Veteran_CCP Wolfman]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 05:41:00 -
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Agree, this is annoying.This problem is what we call a "knock on". It was actually caused by a fix to another (very nasty) bug. A new fix isn't going to make it in to the latest update I'm afraid but it is on the list for the next one. |
[Veteran_Riffix Dathmor]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 06:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cantus wrote:Riffix Dathmor wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think having a knife in this game is stupid. I think it is only there because it is there in other games which are equally stupid. In combat no on who is using a 2-handed rifle can quickly whip out a knife, get a good slash in, and PUT IT BACK IN SHEATH in the time it happens in this game. Not to mention that this is the future and I find it hard to believe that anything short of a lightsaber would do any damage to these dropsuits.
I think the only sane thing to do is make melee attacks something that is done with your weapon like in Halo. Seriously. Wrong. It is not because other games have the knife, except halo if you ignore the plasma sword. It is the fact that knives have always been an integral part of warfare from a historical point of view. Even today, our soldiers in the military, hell... in any military for that matter, still use the knife in close combat situations. No one is gonna get rid of it just because you don't like them. Other than that, I do agree that the clip should be lost in the process of interrupting a reload. After all, the clip is empty anyways.
You are missing the point. I am not saying that having the knife couldn't be an important part of a soldier's equipment, even though the examples you give are of our present to the past and we are talking about a futuristic game. I am saying that NO ONE, including soliders of today, run up to an enemy combatant face to face, let go of at least one hand from their weapon, pull their knife, slash or stab, then put it back in their sheath and go back to business as usual. In most cases you don't bring a knife to a gunfight unless you are out of ammo. When they are used in combat it is for times when you want to be quiet and have the element of surprise or you have no other option. The sidearm is the backup for the rifle and the knife is the backup for the sidearm. Hell, knives are probably more used as tools that for actual combat.
So my point is, that many games have this because the "melee" mechanic is a good one for FPS, good balance of risk versus reward usually, and they choose a knife because that is the weapon that would technically make sense because past and present soldiers carry them. But the implementation never made sense unless the melee weapon was a separate weapon you had to switch to. The only way it makes sense to be able to simply hit a button for a quick melee and then have your character go back to shooting as usually is to use the weapon they are holding for the melee. Period. Halo does this, it feels good, it feels right. Rather than wallow in a mechanic that is at best a mediocre tack-on for most FPS, I want Dust to be fantastic and feel thought out. This is one way you accomplish this. |
[Veteran_Nahlvat]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 07:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riffix Dathmor wrote:Cantus wrote:Riffix Dathmor wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think having a knife in this game is stupid. I think it is only there because it is there in other games which are equally stupid. In combat no on who is using a 2-handed rifle can quickly whip out a knife, get a good slash in, and PUT IT BACK IN SHEATH in the time it happens in this game. Not to mention that this is the future and I find it hard to believe that anything short of a lightsaber would do any damage to these dropsuits.
I think the only sane thing to do is make melee attacks something that is done with your weapon like in Halo. Seriously. Wrong. It is not because other games have the knife, except halo if you ignore the plasma sword. It is the fact that knives have always been an integral part of warfare from a historical point of view. Even today, our soldiers in the military, hell... in any military for that matter, still use the knife in close combat situations. No one is gonna get rid of it just because you don't like them. Other than that, I do agree that the clip should be lost in the process of interrupting a reload. After all, the clip is empty anyways. You are missing the point. I am not saying that having the knife couldn't be an important part of a soldier's equipment, even though the examples you give are of our present to the past and we are talking about a futuristic game. I am saying that NO ONE, including soliders of today, run up to an enemy combatant face to face, let go of at least one hand from their weapon, pull their knife, slash or stab, then put it back in their sheath and go back to business as usual. In most cases you don't bring a knife to a gunfight unless you are out of ammo. When they are used in combat it is for times when you want to be quiet and have the element of surprise or you have no other option. The sidearm is the backup for the rifle and the knife is the backup for the sidearm. Hell, knives are probably more used as tools that for actual combat. So my point is, that many games have this because the "melee" mechanic is a good one for FPS, good balance of risk versus reward usually, and they choose a knife because that is the weapon that would technically make sense because past and present soldiers carry them. But the implementation never made sense unless the melee weapon was a separate weapon you had to switch to. The only way it makes sense to be able to simply hit a button for a quick melee and then have your character go back to shooting as usually is to use the weapon they are holding for the melee. Period. Halo does this, it feels good, it feels right. Rather than wallow in a mechanic that is at best a mediocre tack-on for most FPS, I want Dust to be fantastic and feel thought out. This is one way you accomplish this.
It would make more sense if you melee with your rifle but because it frankly easier to do so, which actually is one of the ways to hit enemies in Killzone 3, it's a sensible alternative but it just wouldn't look as cool as slashing someone with a knife . |
[Veteran_Grideris]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 08:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Agree, this is annoying.This problem is what we call a "knock on". It was actually caused by a fix to another (very nasty) bug. A new fix isn't going to make it in to the latest update I'm afraid but it is on the list for the next one.
This revelation makes me very happy. Didn't think you guys were doing this on purpose, so it's nice to see I wasn't going crazy.
Nahlvat wrote:It would make more sense if you melee with your rifle but because it frankly easier to do so, which actually is one of the ways to hit enemies in Killzone 3, it's a sensible alternative but it just wouldn't look as cool as slashing someone with a knife Cool.
Difference in DUST 514 is that even with your super strength, you'll find it hard to do any sort of damage to the other guy with just your fists when they're in a suit. A knife covered in a thin layer of plasma does a much better job though. Not to mention super human reaction times that they posses. The motion of slashing will be so mentally ingrained in their minds that I wouldn't be surprised if they slashed randomly in their sleep (if they ever do sleep that is. |
[Veteran_Xocoyol Zaraoul]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 08:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nadroj Isk wrote:Agree to all of these! knife also needs to do more damage Unupgraded knife can three shot unupgraded suits. When you factor in that you can train the knife skill to do 50% more damage (two shot) it is already powerful enough, then consider some suits can equip up to four Melee biotics which are up to +50% more melee damage each, and the Nova Knife is assuredly not underpowered for damage (just could use a smidge more reach and give a feedback sound letting you know you actually hit the target instead of a mere whiff miss). |
[Veteran_Hunter Cazaderon]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 08:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with most of the suggestion in this topic. Especially the need for increased reactivity of the knife animation.
But, regarding damage, a fully upgraded knife shouldnt One Shot anyone. Or we're gonna end up with knife only battles. The default knife does something like 100-120 damage as It drops the shield of a militia Heavy in one strike. |
[Veteran_Mavramorn]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 10:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why not just make Auto-Reload a option that you can set in the controls? |
[Veteran_Vrain]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 12:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Nadroj Isk wrote:Agree to all of these! knife also needs to do more damage Unupgraded knife can three shot unupgraded suits. When you factor in that you can train the knife skill to do 50% more damage (two shot) it is already powerful enough, then consider some suits can equip up to four Melee biotics which are up to +50% more melee damage each, and the Nova Knife is assuredly not underpowered for damage (just could use a smidge more reach and give a feedback sound letting you know you actually hit the target instead of a mere whiff miss).
100% agreed Xocoyol - I could even live without the reach extention, tbh. Fully uprgaded damage output is fairly monstrous, maybe nerf it a little and extentend reach a little.
Would like to se the animation and sound effects improve, tho. |
[Veteran_J'Jor Da'Wg]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 16:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Justin Cawnerry wrote:I can't count the number of kills I've missed because I moved in to melee but my rifle started the reload procedure. I think it would be awesome if you could melee and interrupt the loading sequence, even if the would restart the reloading process.
Many other shooters have this, where the Melee command takes precedence over other commands such as Reload.
I have been having many other problems with melee. Hit detection is awful on it for me, and since I really only get 3 melees currently, if I haven't been sprinting, it is near useless ATM. I suppose if I improved my knife handling skills it would be better, but I really don't even think about knifing right now.
Which makes me sad. I loved my knife in MAG, and BF3... it was my baby... |
[Veteran_Cantus]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 16:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Riffix Dathmor wrote:Cantus wrote:Riffix Dathmor wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I think having a knife in this game is stupid. I think it is only there because it is there in other games which are equally stupid. In combat no on who is using a 2-handed rifle can quickly whip out a knife, get a good slash in, and PUT IT BACK IN SHEATH in the time it happens in this game. Not to mention that this is the future and I find it hard to believe that anything short of a lightsaber would do any damage to these dropsuits.
I think the only sane thing to do is make melee attacks something that is done with your weapon like in Halo. Seriously. Wrong. It is not because other games have the knife, except halo if you ignore the plasma sword. It is the fact that knives have always been an integral part of warfare from a historical point of view. Even today, our soldiers in the military, hell... in any military for that matter, still use the knife in close combat situations. No one is gonna get rid of it just because you don't like them. Other than that, I do agree that the clip should be lost in the process of interrupting a reload. After all, the clip is empty anyways. You are missing the point. I am not saying that having the knife couldn't be an important part of a soldier's equipment, even though the examples you give are of our present to the past and we are talking about a futuristic game. I am saying that NO ONE, including soliders of today, run up to an enemy combatant face to face, let go of at least one hand from their weapon, pull their knife, slash or stab, then put it back in their sheath and go back to business as usual. In most cases you don't bring a knife to a gunfight unless you are out of ammo. When they are used in combat it is for times when you want to be quiet and have the element of surprise or you have no other option. The sidearm is the backup for the rifle and the knife is the backup for the sidearm. Hell, knives are probably more used as tools that for actual combat. So my point is, that many games have this because the "melee" mechanic is a good one for FPS, good balance of risk versus reward usually, and they choose a knife because that is the weapon that would technically make sense because past and present soldiers carry them. But the implementation never made sense unless the melee weapon was a separate weapon you had to switch to. The only way it makes sense to be able to simply hit a button for a quick melee and then have your character go back to shooting as usually is to use the weapon they are holding for the melee. Period. Halo does this, it feels good, it feels right. Rather than wallow in a mechanic that is at best a mediocre tack-on for most FPS, I want Dust to be fantastic and feel thought out. This is one way you accomplish this.
I see your point, but as someone else pointed out already, I fail to see how smacking someone with the butt of an assault weapon is going to do any damage to a suit meant to shield against something as powerful as a plasma shot.
In your example of a soldier using the knife instead of the gun, I find that I usually run into an opponent around the corner. Then we do the circle dance while we shoot at each other. When I run out, I switch to the my sidearm (my trusted SMG). When I run out of ammo* on that too, I start wanting to use my knife.
* - by "run out of ammo" I mean I don't want to bother having to reload in the middle of a circle dance even if I have an extra clip on my person as I don't want to waste time doing that. |
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[Veteran_Nadroj Isk]
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Nadroj Isk wrote:Agree to all of these! knife also needs to do more damage Unupgraded knife can three shot unupgraded suits. When you factor in that you can train the knife skill to do 50% more damage (two shot) it is already powerful enough, then consider some suits can equip up to four Melee biotics which are up to +50% more melee damage each, and the Nova Knife is assuredly not underpowered for damage (just could use a smidge more reach and give a feedback sound letting you know you actually hit the target instead of a mere whiff miss).
Ya i saw them but didnt really understand it now do thanks! But it needs to be faster is that a skill also? |
[Veteran_Renzo kuken]
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Posted - 2012.06.05 02:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nadroj Isk wrote:Agree to all of these! knife also needs to do more damage
wanna do more damage? train for it...nuff said |
[Veteran_Seti Menoptra]
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Posted - 2012.06.05 03:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
stewey2 azule wrote:Completely agree, knife attack needs to take precedence over reloading, And you should be able to begin sprinting from a crouch
Not empty quoting. |
[Veteran_Riffix Dathmor]
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Posted - 2012.06.06 07:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cantus wrote: I see your point, but as someone else pointed out already, I fail to see how smacking someone with the butt of an assault weapon is going to do any damage to a suit meant to shield against something as powerful as a plasma shot.
That's a fair point, I believe the thinking is that while you might not be able to get through the suit, you can give the soft bits on the inside a good pulping. We are super-soldiers after all. But I also buy the idea someone else brought up about the knife having "plasma edge" on it which might give it more cutting power. I suppose you could make a case either way depending on how you justify the tech in the fiction.
But I still stand by my point that pulling out a separate weapon, especially something that looks like an ordinary knife, for a quick melee makes no sense. The held weapon should be used. If the dev team thinks it wouldn't make sense without adding some sort of sharp surfaces/bayonets/blades to the weapons for this reason I think that would make it even better. You could even give players more of a reason to choose certain weapons over others that have more "melee" potential if that is how they like to fight. |
[Veteran_WSixsmith Dust]
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Posted - 2012.06.07 04:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have an Idea on how this might be resolved. Mount the Knife on the end of the weapon. Bayonet style. You can melee away all you want while still holding on to your weapon. Also it would be kind of handy if you do get a good stab in that the gun stays connected to the bad guy. Then you have to pull the gun out the slow way or do it A LA 1914 and pull the trigger. I sure would like to grab onto those guys that like to run and get into a dance off. Especially when I usually get the chance to sneak up behind them. I get one melee off on them then they start running and spinning and everyone starts firing wildly hoping the other guy misses more.
A guy who gets stuck from behind should be finished, or the guy who manages to get the element of surprise in his favor could perhaps get a choke hold from behind so he can get multiple shanks in on his target if we don't wanna kill him in one go.
I wouldn't mind having to train grappling to V if it meant my hand to hand stopped blowing goats. The Mercs are in power suits let's have them do some power moves :) |
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