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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
362
   |
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
So atm we have ..
Heavy. Number 1 in ehp number 5 in speed
Commando number 3 in ehp number 4 in speed ...hp buff needed
Assault number 2 in ehp number 2 in speed
Logi number 4 in ehp number 3 in speed speed buff needed
Scout number 5 in ehp number 1 in speed
Scout and heavy are great but logi and commando ..fail
Make commando have more ehp than assault as fits their speed
Give logis more speed as suits Their ehp logis become second fastest to match having the second worst tank ability ..commando become second in ehp matching being the second slowest suit in dust
Thoughts
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
362
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
robin williams' ghost wrote:Buff commandos ehp, buff logi speed, leave everything else alone, yeah I could get on board with that. And give commandos a grenade slot already.
I wish commando had a grenade slot I try and keep my posts simple
Small requests easy changes
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
362
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 16:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I agree that HP needs to have a speed correlate.
How would you propose we fix the lack of correlation
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
367
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 18:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Thoughts?
Idea 1) Implement a mass:movement model which scales speed with HP. Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
Idea 1 - Illustrated: CCP Rattati wrote: I want each frame to have mass, each module to have mass, and speed is dynamically related to mass.
base speed = 6 at zero mass
Scout = 100 (could substitute mass for hp)
base speed 100/X = 5.2
plate = 10
1 plate = 10% speed reduction
5 plates = 50% reduction
new speed = base speed * penalty
Sentinel = 500
base speed = 500/X = 4.5
plate = 10
1 plate = 2% speed reduction
5 plates = 10% reduction
new speed = base speed * penalty
penalty wouldn't have to be linear
I already have some calculations and ideas without a true encumbrance model, I can share that swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
370
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. Things have changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png
I consider it a direct buff if it directly results in the scout role becoming the best slayer. With the current new backpedal speeds nerfing assault speed to logi speed would cause assaults ehp to be irrelevant the would be slugs and scout would be better at slaying in every way
You can nitpick my words all you want lowering assaults speed is not a good idea. There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
370
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 20:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on. Tough to say. But if the past is any indication, throwing more HP at the problem doesn't serve to shake up the King HP meta. Assaults are too mobile for the HP they're packing. The obvious solution is to make them less mobile. The popular solution will be more HP creep.
Giving the logi more speed won't make them slayers they are very tight on fitting and even if said slayer ran cheapo gear they still wouldn't compare to assaults higher ehp I don't think the min amar and gal logi would threaten my min gal and amar assaults slaying ability ..maybe this is not the case for cal i dunno I don't have them cal assault is kinda weak vs the other 3 so maybe it's logi could surpass it
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
370
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 21:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers [/quote]
A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few.
http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png[/quote]
Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer.
Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc.
Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on.[/quote]
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 16:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind.
Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect
Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This
and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground
I've noticed my scout performing much better since echo
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults Because Wiggle Wiggle. Increased strafe penalty was added to vanilla plates; ferros and reactives were not affected. Following this change, many non-heavies migrated away from vanilla plates.
Because speed greatly effects survivability ..as for brick tanking heavies most real heavies moved to non vanilla plates as well ..in fact I don't know a single decent heavy who completely tanks nowadays
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
|
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect
Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground I'm running 1 precision and a couple Myofibss on my Assault fits. If a shotgunner gets within optimal range, I'll pick him up on TacNet. If I fail to notice him and he blaps me, I can still tank his first strike and hop away before his second. If the shotgunner is a scout, I'll kill him in 3 out of 4 cases. If the shotgunner is a MN Assault, he has better odds of surviving my retaliation and winning.
You describing 1 fit vs Scout 1 assault fit yes jump mods may help you get away from SOME SCOUTS but I've yet to have the happen to me Pats my pinpoint accurate smg ..at least as far as the amar scout goes scouts are fine
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I have a question.
Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race?
For example, should an Amarr Scout be faster than a Minmatar Assault, or should it only beat the Amarr Assault in terms of base speed.
Another question is: should there be a set ratio for eHP:speed?
I think there should be a set ratio for ehp and speed correlation but that it should also vary depending on frame type ..
yes an amar scout should be faster than a min assault but it should also be the slowest scout
It's a light frame at base all light frames should be faster than medium
But then the amar race us also supposed to be the slowest race ..and min the fastest ....and amar scout would be op if it got a speed buff
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
(1) You describing 1 fit vs Scout 1 assault fit yes jump mods may help you get away from SOME SCOUTS but I've yet to have the happen to me Pats my pinpoint accurate smg .. (2) at least as far as the amar scout goes scouts are fine
1. Myofibs are not uncommon. I'm explaining to you why SG Scout kill/spawn efficiency will decline this build. 2. It would not surprise me if AM Scout usage rates were among the lowest of any suit in the game. But we're speculating. Efficiency and utilization rates will be what they'll be. If they come in low, you'll know I was right. 
I don't think they'll come in low myrofibs are not as great as people make them out . My scout has not been effected negatively by echo
Amar scout isn't popular because no one has the swag to operate it right but the best amarrians
Only thing that's got me in the dumps about scouts is range amps
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Joel II X wrote:
Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race?
MN Assault is presently faster than AM Scout.
And it shouldn't be
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
374
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 17:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:So atm we have ..
Heavy. Number 1 in ehp number 5 in speed
Commando number 3 in ehp number 4 in speed ...hp buff needed
Assault number 2 in ehp number 2 in speed
Logi number 4 in ehp number 3 in speed speed buff needed
Scout number 5 in ehp number 1 in speed
Scout and heavy are great but logi and commando ..fail
Make commando have more ehp than assault as fits their speed
Give logis more speed as suits Their ehp logis become second fastest to match having the second worst tank ability ..commando become second in ehp matching being the second slowest suit in dust
Thoughts Logi is fine overall, commando needs some kind of buff, but I dont think just putting all the suits on a hp vs. speed curve you graphed out and calling it a day is a good way to do things.
Why not ?
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
377
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 18:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Joel II X wrote:
Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race?
MN Assault is presently faster than AM Scout. And it shouldn't be Agreed. I'm wondering if MN Assault movement speed was entered in error. Speed ComparisonsBase movement of 5.20 fits the pattern better than the current 5.30.
Amar scout and min assault should swap movement and sprint speeds
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
377
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Definitely in favor of commando EHP buff. CCP kept buffing the assault and they didn't realize that they ended up giving it higher EHP potential than commandos. Honestly I would prefer a slot increase opposed to be EHP increase so the players have more options.
As for Amarr scout, I would like to point out that is not like the Amarr Empire doesn't know how to make stuff fast, they just prefer not too in direct combat. But when they need to be fast they can be, the Imperial Navy Slicer is the second fastest ship if I recall. Still I'd settle with at least being faster than the Minmatar assault.
But how many slots
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
377
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Amar scout and min assault should swap movement and sprint speeds
Added Sheet: "Maths for Morte"(appears to further "denormalize" the progression)
This is why I post on the forums because I have neither the tome nor the patience for this thank you o7
Btw than normalized version of assaults vs scouts was nice where did that nerf to min assaults come from ?
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
377
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 19:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Definitely in favor of commando EHP buff. CCP kept buffing the assault and they didn't realize that they ended up giving it higher EHP potential than commandos. Honestly I would prefer a slot increase opposed to be EHP increase so the players have more options.
As for Amarr scout, I would like to point out that is not like the Amarr Empire doesn't know how to make stuff fast, they just prefer not too in direct combat. But when they need to be fast they can be, the Imperial Navy Slicer is the second fastest ship if I recall. Still I'd settle with at least being faster than the Minmatar assault. But how many slots Amarr and Gallente +1 low all tiers, Minmatar and Caldari +1 high all tiers. Off the top of my head. One slot seems reasonable. Not sure if that would make Caldari commando inadvertently too much of a sniping monster.
Or make minmando broken for swarms
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
380
|
Posted - 2015.03.24 22:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Definitely in favor of commando EHP buff. CCP kept buffing the assault and they didn't realize that they ended up giving it higher EHP potential than commandos. Honestly I would prefer a slot increase opposed to be EHP increase so the players have more options.
As for Amarr scout, I would like to point out that is not like the Amarr Empire doesn't know how to make stuff fast, they just prefer not too in direct combat. But when they need to be fast they can be, the Imperial Navy Slicer is the second fastest ship if I recall. Still I'd settle with at least being faster than the Minmatar assault. But how many slots Amarr and Gallente +1 low all tiers, Minmatar and Caldari +1 high all tiers. Off the top of my head. One slot seems reasonable. Not sure if that would make Caldari commando inadvertently too much of a sniping monster. Or make minmando broken for swarms Agreed. Min and Calmandos would be risky. Might it be safer to assign +1 low (all tiers, all races)?
Minmando could then run 2 kinkats and a something else nice i don't like the idea of giving any commandos more high slots but low would be cool
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
385
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Posted - 2015.03.25 01:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I can't think of anything that would be broken about +1 low all tiers all races for commandos
I agree they should try this
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
388
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 02:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
... but I dont think just putting all the suits on a hp vs. speed curve you graphed out and calling it a day is a good way to do things.
Why not ? I'm with Morte on this one. Why not, Vesta? Shouldn't Speed and HP be inversely related? To what end? Do we want more interesting classes with different things to make them useful, or do we just want to slide the suits up and down an hp/speed scale to achieve balance? I'd like things to be a little more interesting, like adjusting suit bonuses and what not to make the commandos worth it. Also the shield regen on the cal commando needs to be much quicker. Worst thing about them.
I don't see you point or argument as to why speed and total ehp should not correlate
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
|
Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
391
|
Posted - 2015.03.25 12:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Mex-0 wrote:One Eyed King wrote:I agree that HP needs to have a speed correlate. I also agree, it's redonkulous that my minassault stacked with plates has more ehp and is STILL faster than a commando. Not that I'm saying nerf the MinAssault. It actually does need a stamina regen nerf imo ;\
Or a all around speed nerf
no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave
When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
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