DUST Search - Dear Ratatti, In regards to key and strong box trading.

Maken Tosch wrote:

You seem to have overlooked the reason behind this decision that Rattati took. Bugs. Bugs are a big and good reason why BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are having to wait a little longer before being trade worthy.

If a bug exists that somehow screws over the seller/buyer even if both parties of the transaction were honest with each other, that can have a major impact on not only the current player base but also any potential new players wanting to join the game. If you heard that everything including BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are trade worthy tomorrow and then a major glitch/bug comes in and ruins your sale/purchase of such goods, then you will rage like the incredible hulk and frankly so will I and everyone else. Reviews on other websites will come up telling potential new players to never come here because of the bug and somehow people will accuse CCP of intentionally screwing over their players with this. Imagine the petitions.

Keep in mind that money is at stake here.

If a bug comes out that day, but the BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are not affected because they're not trade worthy at the moment, then the worst that could happen is that CCP has to take some time to tidy up the mess with a hotfix. Once that's sorted out, then the rest of the items become trade worthy without risk of the bug impacting them.

Do you have officer gear or rare items to sell or trade? Message me in game with details.

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LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 320	Posted - 2015.03.22 12:31:00 - [1] - Quote I believe I saw somewhere that at the round table you referenced simple trading only pertaining to ISK items to start. If this is not true then pleas disregard this thread. If this is true I strongly urge you to reconsider. Currently I have several people ready to purchase keys for cash to sell to me for ISK. I do not use this as to say that you should change your mind just because of me but because it is an example of the revenue that will be lost in key and booster markets by players who are a bit ISK poor or would just like to spam proto a bit more. With regards to strong box trading I believe you should strongly consider this as well. I currently have a little over 500 boxes that I almost opened last week before fanfest but since I do not want to be left grinding for strongboxes I have decided against it. My point is that with these two things you are talking about several hundred dollars in lost revenue just from myself and the people that are planning to buy things to trade with me. If this type of situation pertains to even a fraction of the player base it still adds up to quite the large amount of money which could extend the "Dust is Profitable" campaign that everyone is talking about right now.
LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 320	Posted - 2015.03.22 12:35:00 - [2] - Quote Oh and I think components should be able to be traded as well for the same reasons but understand the alt farming concerns there. Even a MASSIVE alt farm is not enough to bypass the cool downs and pricing on the higher levels but that is something that I am not in a position to speak on.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 485	Posted - 2015.03.22 12:38:00 - [3] - Quote I think he said something about implementing new items for trade step by step. Maybe it'll be ISK only at the beggining and then we'll have more. Wait and see! Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
JL3Eleven Ancient Exiles. 2239	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:20:00 - [4] - Quote I'm fine with the trading of boxes and keys. However, I would be concerned with the trading of components as they would be super easy to farm. Can I haz ur ISK? Do you have officer gear or rare items to sell or trade? Message me in game with details.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11195	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:44:00 - [5] - Quote You seem to have overlooked the reason behind this decision that Rattati took. Bugs. Bugs are a big and good reason why BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are having to wait a little longer before being trade worthy. If a bug exists that somehow screws over the seller/buyer even if both parties of the transaction were honest with each other, that can have a major impact on not only the current player base but also any potential new players wanting to join the game. If you heard that everything including BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are trade worthy tomorrow and then a major glitch/bug comes in and ruins your sale/purchase of such goods, then you will rage like the incredible hulk and frankly so will I and everyone else. Reviews on other websites will come up telling potential new players to never come here because of the bug and somehow people will accuse CCP of intentionally screwing over their players with this. Imagine the petitions. Keep in mind that money is at stake here. If a bug comes out that day, but the BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are not affected because they're not trade worthy at the moment, then the worst that could happen is that CCP has to take some time to tidy up the mess with a hotfix. Once that's sorted out, then the rest of the items become trade worthy without risk of the bug impacting them. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11195	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:47:00 - [6] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Oh and I think components should be able to be traded as well for the same reasons but understand the alt farming concerns there. Even a MASSIVE alt farm is not enough to bypass the cool downs and pricing on the higher levels but that is something that I am not in a position to speak on. I say restrict trading warbarge components to just donating them to the corp and that all donated components be used strictly towards the corp flotilla. I just don't see a point in trading them between players right now as they have no use outside of the warbarge. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1086	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:59:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Oh and I think components should be able to be traded as well for the same reasons but understand the alt farming concerns there. Even a MASSIVE alt farm is not enough to bypass the cool downs and pricing on the higher levels but that is something that I am not in a position to speak on. I say restrict trading warbarge components to just donating them to the corp and that all donated components be used strictly towards the corp flotilla. I just don't see a point in trading them between players right now as they have no use outside of the warbarge. Profits for players who got warbarge mobile factory lvl 5 cha-ching. Besides it's not like there's an economy to ruin or anything. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
JL3Eleven Ancient Exiles. 2239	Posted - 2015.03.23 01:01:00 - [8] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: You seem to have overlooked the reason behind this decision that Rattati took. Bugs. Bugs are a big and good reason why BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are having to wait a little longer before being trade worthy. If a bug exists that somehow screws over the seller/buyer even if both parties of the transaction were honest with each other, that can have a major impact on not only the current player base but also any potential new players wanting to join the game. If you heard that everything including BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are trade worthy tomorrow and then a major glitch/bug comes in and ruins your sale/purchase of such goods, then you will rage like the incredible hulk and frankly so will I and everyone else. Reviews on other websites will come up telling potential new players to never come here because of the bug and somehow people will accuse CCP of intentionally screwing over their players with this. Imagine the petitions. Keep in mind that money is at stake here. If a bug comes out that day, but the BPOs, Boosters, and Keys are not affected because they're not trade worthy at the moment, then the worst that could happen is that CCP has to take some time to tidy up the mess with a hotfix. Once that's sorted out, then the rest of the items become trade worthy without risk of the bug impacting them. We are all aware of this. The OP was simply asking for boxes and keys to one day become tradable. Can I haz ur ISK? Do you have officer gear or rare items to sell or trade? Message me in game with details.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 2937	Posted - 2015.03.23 01:21:00 - [9] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: Oh and I think components should be able to be traded as well for the same reasons but understand the alt farming concerns there. Even a MASSIVE alt farm is not enough to bypass the cool downs and pricing on the higher levels but that is something that I am not in a position to speak on. I say restrict trading warbarge components to just donating them to the corp and that all donated components be used strictly towards the corp flotilla. I just don't see a point in trading them between players right now as they have no use outside of the warbarge. Profits for players who got warbarge mobile factory lvl 5 cha-ching. Besides it's not like there's an economy to ruin or anything. So then make it where donating to the corp gives you some ISK, but it would have to be called something other than donating at that point. Plasma Cannon :3 Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 215	Posted - 2015.03.23 03:12:00 - [10] - Quote Open the market. Just add an auction panel... THAT should come too :D Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air

VAHZZ 993	Posted - 2015.03.23 03:14:00 - [11] - Quote Just frakkin bring about player trading already, I've waited too long rat man. *When winter comes...* Closed Beta Vet
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 1031	Posted - 2015.03.23 08:31:00 - [12] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Open the market. Just add an auction panel... THAT should come too :D that would be freaking cool. framerate>everything else
Nirwanda Vaughns 1565	Posted - 2015.03.23 10:21:00 - [13] - Quote From what i read it was just ISK items at first to check the system worked and then slowly bringing other items such as BPOs and boosters in once it was up and running. can you imagine the support tickets if you bought 50 Keys for AUR and got scammed out of them? ISK items are safest atm till the system is workign correctly and they can make something less easy to scam other players out of real cash items. They did say once though that Warbarge Components wont be tradeable in order to stop alt farming, seems a valid reason altho9ugh it'd be nice. i have to get 25k WBC's to upgrade my mobile factory and thats just to level 4. having a couple of alts chuckingn some WBC's my way would certainly help out a bit lol Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
LOOKMOM NOHANDS Warpoint Sharx 330	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:08:00 - [14] - Quote Alt farming does not feel like it will be an issue to me. I say this because I have had more than one ambush match where I got x400 warbage components just in salvage. At this point our warbarge component count is really based on activity or money not on the passive generation. Also the cost of leveling up and the costs of cool downs would empty out even a massive alt farm in one pass. Maybe I am missing something but I just do not see where alt farming is an issue. Obviously these are numbers for Ratatti to play with but I feel like there is a much better solution than just blocking warbarge components from being traded. Lets not forget they are still going to be able to be donated to the corp which means now big corps can take advantage of alt farming but regular players can not. When it comes to bugs on day 1 we all know that is a possibility. The flood of trades that will take place on that day will far more than test the system so there is no reason that other items could not be unlocked for trading the next day. No matter what if there is any bugs the incredible number of support tickets over lost officer gear and ISK is going to come close to crashing the support system and I feel very sorry for the GMs should this happen. If we were to live in fear of bad code I do not think this game would still be alive. I am only trying to point out that he is risking losing a very large amount of revenue for the game. If being scared of the one loser that would actually rather sit there logging in and out of alts all day is how we are going to play things then that is fine with me. Oh and a way to fix alt farming would be to require 1 AUR to transfer warbarge components. People that are buying components to send them will not even notice this while there is no way it would be worth it to an alt farmer to make a $5 deposit to every single PSN account.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4867	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:11:00 - [15] - Quote I suspect CCP will start with ISK items only to ensure they have plugged all of the holes in duping items or other shenanigans. I have to agree though that the duration of ISK item only trading needs to be short and I hope it's set up so that it can be changed in a hotfix. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11201	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:00:00 - [16] - Quote LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: I am only trying to point out that he is risking losing a very large amount of revenue for the game. If being scared of the one loser that would actually rather sit there logging in and out of alts all day is how we are going to play things then that is fine with me. Oh and a way to fix alt farming would be to require 1 AUR to transfer warbarge components. People that are buying components to send them will not even notice this while there is no way it would be worth it to an alt farmer to make a $5 deposit to every single PSN account. To Your First Point And I'm telling you right now that having a bug come in that severely impacts trade with AUR items like BPOs, Boosters, Respecs, and Keys will DEFINITELY result in an even larger loss of revenue stream than what you think would happen if AUR items weren't tradeable on day one. No matter what you say, I'm sticking with their decision on the grounds that it's better safe than sorry. So what if CCP doesn't get your $20 on the first few days? Better to lose those $20 from you because they took their time to get it right than to lose countless more from everyone else because of a bug impacting AUR. To Your Second Point I'm ok with that. Whatever it takes to discourage alt farming. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 11201	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:27:00 - [17] - Quote Let it be known that this is not the first time CCP had to make such a difficult decision. Back during closed beta, CCP use to sell BPOs for 100 AUR a piece. No, that's not a typo. That is one hundred AUR right there. A one followed by two zeroes. BPOs were that cheap that you could buy 400+ BPOs with just $20. Then, just shortly before going into open beta, CCP increased the price of BPOs from 100 AUR to how they are today. Later on, CCP decided to want to remove BPOs because they just weren't practical for a full-blown secondary economy. At least the type of secondary economy CCP originally had in mind before CCP Rattati took over. The original plan was to remove all BPOs and refund the players the AUR based on the current market prices. It seemed like a good idea until someone on the forums revealed that this was a very bad idea for three reasons. First Reason: At the time BPOs were the only items worth spending AUR on. Respecs, Keys, Warbarge Components, and Jara Kumora didn't exist and Booster variety was limited back then. EOM Boosting didn't exist either and the weekly cap was about 180,000 SP. So a lot of people didn't want the AUR and were asking for cash refunds instead. Second Reason: Certain BPO items such as the Templar set were bought directly with cash, not AUR, thanks to the Eve: Second Decade Collector's Edition Box Set being sold at CCP's store. If those BPOs got removed, cash refunds for the value of those BPOs would be required. Third Reason (the biggest reason of all): The price of BPOs back in closed beta was at 100 AUR per unit. The price of BPOs after open beta arrived averages about 7,000 AUR per unit depending on if it's a suit, module, equipment, or weapon. So if I bought 400 BPOs at 100 AUR and got a refund for the BPOs, I would get 2,800,000 AUR. Using the $20 merc pack offering 43,000 AUR as a baseline, I would get over $1,300 worth of AUR to spend on. And that's just on one player like me. Imagine dozens of others who collect these BPOs in bulk. That's a lot of money to bleed. So CCP was forced to give up on the plan of removing BPOs and let them stay instead. I believe that it was at this point that CCP experienced its first lesson of many to come later on. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.


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