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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
94
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Slots
Firstly, dropships need the same standard, advanced and proto tiers as HAV's have. Continuing on the same tiercide route as you have with tanks, it is only natural to increase the number of slots as you did with tanks. Therefore here are what I recommend the slot count be increased to (I have included logi dropships for when they are reinstated). (high/low)
Gallante:
normal: 3/4
ads: 2/4
logi: 3/5
Caldari:
normal: 4/3
ads: 4/2
logi: 5/3
PG and CPU
Balancing PG and CPU was more difficult given you had to be able to fit standard gear at standard level, adv gear at advanced and proto at proto, while taking into account pg/cpu reduction skills at their correct level. I averaged the pg and cpu requirements for all high and low equipment, and all turrets, with separate averages for gallante and caldari as caldari are less likely to use armour and gallante are less likely to use shields. I also made heavy equipment (120mm plates etc.) have less importance in the average as they are only meant to be used on dropships infrequently.
The multipliers I used to take into account skills at each level are as follows: (std/adv/pro)
Gallante:
Turret pg&cpu: -2%/-7%/-18%
low slot pg: -4%/-11.5%/-18.5%
low slot cpu: -1%/-3%/-5%
high slot pg: -2%/-5%/-8%
high slot cpu: -1%/-3%/-5%
Caldari:
Turret pg&cpu: -2%/-7%/-18%
low slot pg: -1%/-3%/-5%
low slot cpu: -2%/-5%/-8%
high slot pg: -1%/-3%/-5%
high slot cpu: -4%/-11.5%/-18.5%
After subtracting these percentages I then multiplied all turret pg and cpu values by 1.08 and all slot pg and cpu values by 1.05. This is to make the majority of full proto fits plausible when you have maxed out skills.
This gave me the following values for how much each slot is worth: (std/adv/pro)
Gallante:
Turret:
pg: 128/151/161
cpu: 62/74/80
Low Slot:
pg: 187/217/260
cpu: 51/65/83
High Slot:
pg: 80/101/122
cpu: 63/88/111
Caldari:
Turret:
pg: 138/154/159
cpu: 88/101/105
Low Slot:
pg: 74/87/99
cpu: 26/32/37
High Slot:
pg: 176/216/266
cpu: 110/135/157
My caldari pg high slot values are also massively skewed due to the fact the heavy shield booster uses more PG than any other item in the game. I therefore recalculated with this item having only 20% influence:
Caldari high slot:
pg: 130/165/207
cpu: 105/130/151
This had the desired effect of reducing the pg without reducing the cpu too much, and it is very unlikely someone will try to fit a heavy shield booster to a dropship.
I then counted optional turrets as having 70% of their pg/cpu value.
Therefore the total pg and cpu I recommend for dropships after hotfix echo is as follows: (PG/CPU)
My caldari pg high slot values are also massively skewed
Gallante:
Normal:
std: 1060/492
adv: 1266/651
pro: 1493/805
ADS:
std: 1001/502
adv: 1200/660
pro: 1394/802
Logi:
std: 961/468
adv: 1156/635
pro: 1390/804
Caldari:
Normal:
std: 935/621
adv: 1136/757
pro: 1348/862
ADS:
std: 999/683 (~900/~700)
adv: 1204/826 (~1160/~850)
pro: 1407/930 (~1350/~950)
Logi:
std: 872/603
adv: 1086/746
pro: 1322/866
The PG values for caldari definitely seem high but this is representative of the face almost all caldari dropship fits run out of pg before cpu, even when using pg boosters. It also seems fairly even when compared to the gallante dropships, and almost seems as though it has too little CPU. However the caldari ads should probably have about 10% less PG at standard and advanced (the problem is the missile turret has such a pg/cpu requirement)
Skills
Skills remain as they are, except logistics dropships gets an exact duplicate branch of assault dropships branch.
Some skill bonuses changed:
Caldari ADS: 5% missile rof and 3% reload speed per level
Gallante ADS: 5% hybrid rof and 3% heat build up per level
Caldari & gallante Logi: 5% pg and cpu bonus
Cost
Normal dropship should cost 50,000/100,000/200,000 for std/adv/pro
ads and logi should cost the same as tanks do for std/adv/pro
Armour and Shield
Leave all armour and shield values and regeneration speeds as they are (maybe add a tiny native armour rep to all dropships)
Logi dropship should have between 10 and 20% more armour than standard
Final Remarks
Logistics dropship should either have an in built cru or an in built rep tool from the old LLAV (or both!)
All proto vehicles (including tanks) should get the proto skin (black with red lights)
Sorry there is a lot of data here but I wanted to outline my entire thought process for pg and cpu changes. I hope you get a chance to read it all.
Any question or comments please reply.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2742
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Posted - 2015.03.17 22:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would highly recommend putting these numbers in a spreadsheet. Search for Google spreadsheet for a free one. Rattati is much more likely to understand and thus comment on your idea if it is better organized.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1410
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Posted - 2015.03.17 23:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Work looks good, though I'm finding the fitting resource amounts hard to swallow: the Gallente ADS, for example, has about 70% PG of current at your proposed PRO.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 23:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Make a spreadsheet.
Done
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2743
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 23:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Now edit the OP to contain the spreadsheet, and indicate there is a spreadsheet at the beginning of the OP.
EDIT: also, great work on the spreadsheet. that's more like it.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 23:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Work looks good, though I'm finding the fitting resource amounts hard to swallow: the Gallente ADS, for example, has about 70% PG of current at your proposed PRO.
I tried to make the numbers fair so I don't get a million av'ers complaining so it is more likely to be actually implemented.
If I get some time tomorrow I will make a larger more accurate spread sheet fully showing every module and all of the maths I used. This does mean the numbers will change a tiny bit due to rounding errors with my current numbers
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1410
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 23:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Please don't be basing the resource numbers off light modules - a dropship fitting light modules is probably a dead dropship. Almost every decent fit uses heavy modules because the power AV kicks out rips straight through a low-grade DS.
So I guess I'm asking, how did you come to the numbers based on the ships you dry fitted? As much as trying to appease AVers is noble, I'd rather it didn't get implemented in the first place if the fits you an actually make are worthless - not that they necessarily are, but those numbers look...terribly low, especially when there are not slots to fill and less resources to fill them with.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 03:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Please don't be basing the resource numbers off light modules - a dropship fitting light modules is probably a dead dropship. Almost every decent fit uses heavy modules because the power AV kicks out rips straight through a low-grade DS.
So I guess I'm asking, how did you come to the numbers based on the ships you dry fitted? As much as trying to appease AVers is noble, I'd rather it didn't get implemented in the first place if the fits you an actually make are worthless - not that they necessarily are, but those numbers look...terribly low, especially when there are not slots to fill and less resources to fill them with.
I have added a full spread sheet with all of my numbers here.
I have played with the weightings and the gallante ads seems pretty strong now but the caldari ads is definitely suffering. I have also added solo ads'es with one turret. If you want to you can play around with the weightings a bit and see if you can come up with anything you prefer.
However my main problem is I am trying to make the standard ads slightly worse than the ads is currently, as it only costs 100k. The advanced ads is 200k which is the same as our current ads.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1411
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 04:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok, looks like I agree with your numbers, though I'm not sure my brain can handle numbers of that magnitude 
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Aidualc
LATINOS KILLERS CORP
Dark Taboo
113
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Posted - 2015.03.18 05:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Logistic Dropships, Rep-turrets only, Clone Vat inside. maybe cloack for deploy troops, less shield/armor. cloack only 10sec max.
-- LKC -- Tomate Pote --
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a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
103
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Posted - 2015.03.18 15:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Ok, looks like I agree with your numbers, though I'm not sure my brain can handle numbers of that magnitude
That spread sheet is that large as all of my calculations are solely done through it so people can see how I got my numbers
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc.
Negative-Feedback
2746
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 15:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aidualc wrote:Logistic Dropships, Rep-turrets only, Clone Vat inside. maybe cloack for deploy troops, less shield/armor. cloack only 10sec max.
That sounds horrible.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 00:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Aidualc wrote:Logistic Dropships, Rep-turrets only, Clone Vat inside. maybe cloack for deploy troops, less shield/armor. cloack only 10sec max. That sounds horrible.
Yeah, logi should be heavily armoured and slow.
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
|
a brackers
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
104
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 00:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've updated the first like with the more recent numbers
Proto dropship pilot
The sandbox shooter
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Velvet Overkill
SI6MA
Learning Alliance
147
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Posted - 2015.03.19 01:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't like the slot layouts you have. You gave the Cal DS a Min layout at normal, logi dropships shouldn't get extra slots, especially if you give them a built-in module, because they should be sidegrades instead of complete upgrades.
Here's what I think they should be like:
Gallante:
normal: 3/4
ads: 2/4
logi: 3/4
Caldari:
normal: 5/2
ads: 4/2
logi: 5/2
Using this account until The-Errorist is unbanned on April 10th.
AV vs Dropship
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2988
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Posted - 2015.03.19 04:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aidualc wrote:Logistic Dropships, Rep-turrets only, Clone Vat inside. maybe cloack for deploy troops, less shield/armor. cloack only 10sec max.
lolno
You're trying to combine WAY too many roles into one hull. Firstly, no pre-built modules. That **** needs to go away. Secondly, negative for rep turrets. LDS's still needs defense (it's made for troop transport), and a transport without its own defenses is a sitting duck (plus it takes away from the LLV's role).
And **** no on having LESS eHP. If anything it needs more.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
2988
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Posted - 2015.03.19 04:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Velvet Overkill wrote:I don't like the slot layouts you have. You gave the Cal DS a Min layout at normal anf logi dropships shouldn't get extra slots, especially if you give them a built-in module, because they should be sidegrades instead of complete upgrades.
Here's what I think they should be like:
Gallante:
normal: 3/4
ads: 2/4
logi: 3/4
Caldari:
normal: 5/2
ads: 4/2
logi: 5/2
LDS's should have more modules slots, but no built in modules (instead, gets bonuses for modules, aka mCRU's.). Makes more sense imo.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1426
|
Posted - 2015.03.19 09:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:LDS's should have more modules slots, but no built in modules (instead, gets bonuses for modules, aka mCRU's.). Makes more sense imo.
+1
It does make more sense that way. Bonuses for mCRU fitting/spawn time and/or scanning would be relatively simple but effective ones. Though I do still like your T II ideas for transport bonuses.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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