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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9109
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kay, long story short:
Made thread. Thread had math, screenshot, video, explanation. Showed college friend who is mathematician. He reminds me that I'm a terrible person who's bad at math because math in thread was bad (I'm an amateur mathematician apparently). Lots of talk. 40 other people or so liked the thread showing me that the community not only didn't stop me from being an idiot, they believed my idiocy.
SO. Take two. This time with real trigonometry and actual science.
First off, explanation of the Trigonometry bit (you can skip this part if you want the TL;DR)
Quote:Using the ASA Methods we can take the distance between two objects, two angles, and than calculate everything else about a triangle. There's the internet to explain how this actually works but the general gist is that we went in-game while I was livestreaming (so we had witnesses), found a suitable wall and nearby object, measured the distance using the in-game tacnet (bit on the lower right that will show you the distance to the player you're aiming at) and then used that and the fact the wall is a perfect right angle to determine the rest of the stuff. Once we had that it was just recording everything again using a Caldari Assault suit with a bunch of different fittings (0 myrofibrils, 1 myro, 2 myro, etc) to see just how high he's jumping. Once we had that variable I plugged it all into GIMP 2.0 to calculate the angle between the nearby reference object and the player (thanks Jadek Manheim for the help, sorry I can't spell your name) using the built in measurement tool which conveniently shows angles. Visual explanation here: http://i.imgur.com/RR4ot8j.pngAfter that we plugged everything into Excel (also on the livestream so everyone knew I wasn't cheating) and ran the numbers using a bunch of really awesome formulas and spreadsheet functions to make it all automatic because I don't care to sit down with a pen and paper for hte rest of the night (I have work in six hours, sue me).
Now for the meaty bit: The actual mathematics and what all of this means -WITH ACTUAL MATH THIS TIME INSTEAD OF SLACK JAWED PIXEL LOGIC-.
The intended values (with stacking penalties and no skill bonus) are highlighted in Blue on the right. The -ACTUAL- values are highlighted in Green just beneath. As you can see, there's something pretty funky going on. I dunno what, I don't care to know what, but something is messing with the numbers hardcore and making the Myrofibrils do... bizarre things.
The Stacking Penalty not only doesn't apply, we originally thought that it was inverse and having Stacking -GAINS- if that makes any sense. But that wasn't the case because the numbers, even then, were much higher than they should have been.
Take from it what you will but the math here doesn't lie unless I screwed something up again.
EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing I forgot to mention. If you're wondering why we tested this with a Prototype Caldari Assault with only x4 Complex Myrofibrils instead of x5 (being as the Caldari Assault has 5 high slots) it's because when Jadek fit 5 and jumped he flew off camera and hit the ceiling of the catwalk on the tower. At that point we unanimously agreed that something is ****ed off with the Myro's past x3 of them and it's just stupid.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5610
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yo Mr. White, you got the blue canisters? It's time to cook some data
Neckbeard for Good charity shave
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5933
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wait.... He hit the ceiling and you didn't post the video in the thread... Do it now
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9112
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Wait.... He hit the ceiling and you didn't post the video in the thread... Do it now
Kay. Lemme upload it to youtube while I play some Dust 514. Might be a bit.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Crimson ShieId
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
2190
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I just wanted to say, I didn't like the thread because I agreed with your math, I liked it because it had a jumping frog in it... I would have liked it twice if you'd gotten him to sing and dance at the same time...
Edit: ... totally speccing into Caldari Assaults next...
My Plasma Cannon says "Hello" to your face~
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18882
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thank you for your work; this data will be crucial for making an informed decisions.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9113
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
[quote=Iron Wolf Saber]Thank you for your work; this data will be crucial for making an informed decisions.[/quote
No problem. I enjoyed it.
Honestly, I'm totally cool with three complex myro's but five is a little overboard lol. I'm not like, advocating that it should be done away with but if we keep it we should give them rocket boots to make the animation look a little less weird.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9113
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Posted - 2015.03.15 02:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alright. Here's the video Jadek bashing his head against the Catwalk. Will post in OP as well.
Now I'm going to livestream some Dust 514 for an hour, so hit up my twitch channel if you're interested in that.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2047
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thank you for your work; this data will be crucial for making a drastic swing with the numbers that leaves everyone confused as to whether or not we turn on our computer monitors when we adjust the numbers.
FTFY
Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9119
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:[quote=Iron Wolf Saber]Thank you for your work; this data will be crucial for making a drastic swing with the numbers that leaves everyone confused as to whether or not we turn on our computer monitors when we adjust the numbers.
FTFY
[/quote
There were seven people in the livestream that were watching me put the numbers into the spreadsheet. If you don't belive these numbers are genuine, talk to them, or alternatively you should have been there yourself.
Please don't come here acting an ass without any justification.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2778
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
That was hilarious. Thanks for posting this and for your hard work.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6246
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is one of my favorite things about this community. |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
6690
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
I got a C the first time I took Trig in HS.
It was rough. Not even going to bother with the spreadsheet. I'll just agree with post number 27 in this thread if they appear. |
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9120
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Posted - 2015.03.15 03:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I got a C the first time I took Trig in HS.
It was rough. Not even going to bother with the spreadsheet. I'll just agree with post number 27 in this thread if they appear.
Lmfao, yeah, Trig is kinda rough but Statistics is the straight witchcraft of Math.
I feel sorry for CCP's marketing team having to struggle with that BS.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2920
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5625
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator. That's what CCP Rattati was thinking for jump packs. Link to the Barbershop
Neckbeard for Good charity shave
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Funkmaster Whale
Whale Pod
2920
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator. That's what CCP Rattati was thinking for jump packs. Link to the Barbershop It would work if the maps were designed for it. The current ones just don't cut it for that type of gameplay.
Follow me on Twitch.tv!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18885
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aeon has been one of the community's long trusted source of technical validation. Even if he is off by a margin he is usually always on track. The only other community member I would try to reach out too if I could read kanji is a japanese player that provided that lovely positional/state bugs this game suffers from.
CPM 1, Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= ADV HAVs =// Unlocked
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
9128
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator. That's what CCP Rattati was thinking for jump packs. Link to the Barbershop It would work if the maps were designed for it. The current ones just don't cut it for that type of gameplay.
Explain how the maps aren't designed for it, please, using examples.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2055
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Posted - 2015.03.15 06:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:RemingtonBeaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Thank you for your work; this data will be crucial for making a drastic swing with the numbers that leaves everyone confused as to whether or not we turn on our computer monitors when we adjust the numbers. FTFY There were seven people in the livestream that were watching me put the numbers into the spreadsheet. If you don't belive these numbers are genuine, talk to them, or alternatively you should have been there yourself. Please don't come here acting an ass without any justification.
I was talking about CCP making adjustments based on your numbers, crispy ****.
Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5941
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Posted - 2015.03.15 07:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator. That's what CCP Rattati was thinking for jump packs. Link to the Barbershop Forget the jump packs I want the skiis
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
22743
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Posted - 2015.03.15 10:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Is there a reason that there is a screenshot of a spreadsheet rather than an actual spreadsheet?
Gallente Guide
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
2552
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Posted - 2015.03.15 10:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Is the skill bonus factored in? Perhaps the actual increase isn't that too skewed, unless the myofibril skill bonus doesn't affect the new jump aspect.
However that certainly doesn't account for the apparent inverse stacking penalty we are seeing, could have something to do with the jumping mechanic, not sure.
+1 for that pretty backdrop.
> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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VALCORE72
Dead Man's Game RUST415
244
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Posted - 2015.03.15 11:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
lol let um keep it . it gimps the suit badly and everytime you land you take 33 damage . stop trying to ad real life to game where we fight on other planets ..... |
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
1619
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Posted - 2015.03.15 11:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
I come bearing gifts. These are the attributes that match all assault suits
Also this You know how I'm always digging around Aeon
My invasion of thoughts is your caviar
AIV member.
21 day EVE trial.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
660
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Posted - 2015.03.15 17:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have never used them myself, but i have heard there is something funny with the stacking of Myrofibril modules, even before jumping was added.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2515079#post2515079 |
P14GU3
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
1359
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Funkmaster Whale wrote:5x Myofibs = Tribes simulator. That's what CCP Rattati was thinking for jump packs. Link to the Barbershop It would work if the maps were designed for it. The current ones just don't cut it for that type of gameplay. Explain how the maps aren't designed for it, please, using examples. Too big for starters. Look at any games with jump mechanics like that, they are on small multi-level maps.
'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
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LUGMOS
Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION
2779
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote: Too big for starters. Look at any games with jump mechanics like that, they are on small multi-level maps.
AKA the newer maps.
Also, the maps we have are a bunch of little maps put onto one big table (sockets)... Soooo.
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1580
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Posted - 2015.03.15 20:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Great work!
Since I know nothing about either programming or math I feel the need to weigh in on this.
Because each sucessive module increases the distance jumped my guess is that while the force is applied linearly according to module design, the inertia logarithm in Dust is treating part of it exponentially.
Is that obvious? So what, I wanted to post something besides "I hate tanks".
Because, that's why.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11150
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Posted - 2015.03.15 21:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
That is some sick jumps right there. No way in hell would a scout survive those kind of falls without inertia dampeners or without suffering a massive loss in armor which -- as we all know at this point with scouts -- is nothing. I can definitely see medium sized suits using the blue bottles so much primarily because of the slot advantage they have.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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