DUST Search - Why Dropships need a HP Increase..

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

Soldier Sorajord wrote:

Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks.

And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything.

This is pretty much the case. I pull out my ADS only because I know half the other team will get a hard-on for killing me and swap to AV, giving my team a bit of a break. Also for popping links and the occasional kill but by no means is it a direct combat vehicle anymore (unless there are literally no swarms on the field but that only lasts like a second).

Also note I singled out swarms in that last sentence. Forges are different; you can actually fight a forge gun. I love fighting forge gunners because it's an actual contest of skill; you can actually do something to make them miss. I hate to say this because I know of the whiplash it will cause but there's just no fun to fighting swarms. Really all you can do is try to avoid them or else catch them preoccupied with something else (assuming you know where they are and you're close enough to see what they're doing).

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Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 711	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote I will elaborate on each of these points below that I believe are issues that would temporarily be addressed if CCP increased ONLY Dropships HP. Survivability is at a critical point. - Easier targets than ground vehicles to attack - Pilots cannot defend their vehicle like ground vehicle drivers can. - Dropship heads-up display (HUD) broken - Rendering issues, e.g swarms, enemy ground units - Ejecting from flaming vehicle usually ends in suicide (not a ground vehicle issue) - Weaponry Now before I elaborate on each of these points, I want to stop those of you right there who are going to reply something like this "ye but IRL if a helicopter takes 1 hit from a rocket its going to go down , its an aerial vehicle " ... This is a ludicrous argument. This is a game where you can take damage from weapons like a shotgun or assault rifle until your shield and armor is depleted on your dropsuit, where in real life you would most likely be killed instantly. Same logic applies to vehicles, i'm afraid. They employ the same technology as dropsuits in this universe. As do spaceships. Now, on to my first point. - Easier targets than ground vehicles to attack: To those of you who think that pilots have speed and maneuverability, yes we do, but only to a certain extent. We can't exactly use the terrain as easy as ground vehicles can to remove ourselves from the LOS of the enemy. We can hide behind buildings or structures, sure, but there's a risk in using that tactic as an aerial vehicle. Terrain damage can be lethal. If you're hiding behind a building, for example, and a swarm volley comes out of nowhere, you can be 'knocked' into the structure, causing instant death. It's not an issue, it's a risk. A risk ground vehicle users do not have to take. They can use terrain cover to shield themselves and to out-run anti-vehicleers. Pilots can only speed away, praying that there isn't another volley of swarms about to remove that last amount of armor. - Pilots cannot defend their vehicle like ground vehicle drivers can. Simply because of one word : Gravity. Yeah, we can't hop out of our dropship to kill that pesky swarm launcher with our AR's like you tankers or LAV drivers can. You know, with the whole 'falling to our death' thing, and losing the very thing we were trying to protect. You may argue saying 'this is why you should have squad mates to jump out and fight them for you' . Well, yes, that would be lovely but the people I enjoy playing with don't tend to want to sit in a dropship for most of the game. Tankers don't generally need anybody else beside themselves. A HP Increase would give the dropship pilot a better chance in killing the AV user or offending tank before the driver gets out and starts forging / swarming him. You dig? - Dropship heads-up-display (HUD) broken. It isn't easy trying to fly nowadays through all these new foggy maps and only having a HUD that lights up the enemy only when you're aiming directly at them. I mean, pinpoint directly at them. Swarms should appear on the HUD seeing as they don't render, or there should be a warning signal or where they are coming from. That would be nice. But it won't happen. Solution? HP Buff please. - Rendering issues, e.g swarms, enemy ground units. Too often to swarm missiles not render. You're just flying along and you can get hit by 4 or 5 volleys, which is critical for any dropships without any warning. How am I supposed to adjust my course, or activate my modules in defense against these homing missiles of doom? Imagine, being a ground troop, that grenades did not render. How annoying would that be? People throwing invisible core locus grenades where people are just blowing up at random. That would be bullshit. THAT, is how a dropship pilot feels vs. invisible homing missiles of doom. Sometimes the infantry don't render on time, all you can see are forgeblasts flying from a rock. To tackle this, I go inspect the rock. Foolishly the rock has AV. Oh it's not the rock that's shooting me, it's the infantry standing on it that only rendered once I got within a 100 meteres or so. - Ejecting from flaming vehicle usually ends in suicide (not a ground vehicle issue) It's a simple trajectory issue that carries on the momentum of the dropship with the pilot as he jumps out, causing the dropship to 'run him over' in mid air. This is not really an issue but its another clone death for the pilots team where it doesn't really happen to ground vehicles at all. It's too easy to shoot down a dropship, and kill its pilot. The answer? Yup, you guessed it. a HP buff please. Weaponry - Yes the dropship is a transport platform but what about the Assault variant? The small blasters are useless, the small railgun is an Incubus' primary and is highly-effective vs vehicles but for attacking infantry? Not a chance. Missiles on a Python? The way to go if you want to fight infantry, however, unless it's a direct shot to the face, you'll take more than one to kill that pesky forger. Vs Vehicles a small missile is adequate but by the time you've got critical damage on that enemy rail gun tank, he is either gone into the redline or his buddies are swarming you to death. Solution to finish the job off? HP buff for dropships. Thanks for reading! Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2635	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:27:00 - [2] - Quote About your last point. It should take more than one hit. However, drop ships aren't even necessary, hence why they will never really fulfill a transport role. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Diablo Gamekeeper Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:27:00 - [3] - Quote Damn, you went balls out on this huh? "I think he just Assert Dominance all over my face."-Saxonmish
Soldier Sorajord Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 186	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:30:00 - [4] - Quote Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks. And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything. I'm one of the blueberries that Isn't useless, cause I always have a rep tool, and USE IT. B)
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5791	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:39:00 - [5] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks. And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything. True Adamance begs to differ (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8357	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:39:00 - [6] - Quote HP isn't always the answer. HP does not require skill, which is one reason why Heavies are such a problem. I would rather see some changes to their maneuverability and their ability to be evasive once attacked. I think it would be also fair if Swarms did not rock them so much and if they were more stable. It is a bit easy in some situations to attack DS, but I don't think simple, passive changes are always the best. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 712	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:41:00 - [7] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks. And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything. I said that. I knew thats the simple physics of it. I wasn't complaining that this is an issue, it's a simple risk that the likes of tankers do not have to deal with. e.g more survivability for the pilot, being the nature of a ground vehicle. The issue is that it costs the dropships team a clone, 9 times out of 10. Survivability of the vehicle is the issue. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 712	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:43:00 - [8] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: HP isn't always the answer. HP does not require skill, which is one reason why Heavies are such a problem. I would rather see some changes to their maneuverability and their ability to be evasive once attacked. I think it would be also fair if Swarms did not rock them so much and if they were more stable. It is a bit easy in some situations to attack DS, but I don't think simple, passive changes are always the best. It's the easiest issue to fix, CCP have yet to address these issues about rendering, manueverability of the dropship itself. It takes them forever to fix these things but a HP buff for basic survivability in this hostile aerial situation is the 'short-term' solution. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3112	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:45:00 - [9] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks. And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything. This is pretty much the case. I pull out my ADS only because I know half the other team will get a hard-on for killing me and swap to AV, giving my team a bit of a break. Also for popping links and the occasional kill but by no means is it a direct combat vehicle anymore (unless there are literally no swarms on the field but that only lasts like a second). Also note I singled out swarms in that last sentence. Forges are different; you can actually fight a forge gun. I love fighting forge gunners because it's an actual contest of skill; you can actually do something to make them miss. I hate to say this because I know of the whiplash it will cause but there's just no fun to fighting swarms. Really all you can do is try to avoid them or else catch them preoccupied with something else (assuming you know where they are and you're close enough to see what they're doing). Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 713	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:49:00 - [10] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Soldier Sorajord wrote: Do you realize that Vehicles are a support role and not an offensive role? I've learned this the hard way with tanks. And With jumping out while its moving resulting in death. Think of it like this. You're always moving with a dropship, and when You bail, its likely because you were going to explode and die anyways.. Thus, You're jumping out of a moving dropship. Have you ever jumped out of your own LAV while you were driving? It often ends up in suicide. Same concept. Doesn't happen with tanks because they lack the speed to actually Roadkill anything. This is pretty much the case. I pull out my ADS only because I know half the other team will get a hard-on for killing me and swap to AV, giving my team a bit of a break. Also for popping links and the occasional kill but by no means is it a direct combat vehicle anymore (unless there are literally no swarms on the field but that only lasts like a second). Also note I singled out swarms in that last sentence. Forges are different; you can actually fight a forge gun. I love fighting forge gunners because it's an actual contest of skill; you can actually do something to make them miss. I hate to say this because I know of the whiplash it will cause but there's just no fun to fighting swarms. Really all you can do is try to avoid them or else catch them preoccupied with something else (assuming you know where they are and you're close enough to see what they're doing). Yeah, the counter-forge tactic of strafing above them in a circle while keeping your gun fixed on their position. It does work... Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.

SUPREME ANNIHILATOR Interstellar Legionnaires 0	Posted - 2015.03.10 19:59:00 - [11] - Quote What is the best attack drop ship Caldari or Gallentte Does Gallentte attack drop ship give bonus to small rail gun or blaster
Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 714	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:20:00 - [12] - Quote SUPREME ANNIHILATOR wrote: What is the best attack drop ship Caldari or Gallentte Does Gallentte attack drop ship give bonus to small rail gun or blaster The skill bonus for flying the Caldari Assault Dropship (Python) : Grants +3% to missile turret ROF and +5% to missile turret maximum ammunition per level. The skill bonus for flying the Gallente Assault Dropship (Incubus) : Grants +3% to hybrid turret ROF and +5% to hybrid turret maximum ammunition per level. So to clear it up, the Python gives bonuses to small missile turrets and the Incubus gives bonus to blaster and rail turrets. Hybrid means both rail and blaster. I prefer the Python myself for the missile loadout I fly.. and for the sheer aesthetics. I love the look of Caldari dropships . I prefer killing infantry than vehicles too. If you'd like to go that way, I suggest the Python. The Incubus is great at killing other dropships and vehicles though, and it appears to be more survivable than the Python, but I'm not verifying anything. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17548	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:28:00 - [13] - Quote Basically a summary complaining that DS pilots can't pull the scrubby moves that Tankers would be castigated for if they pulled them. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Foxhound Elite Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 714	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:52:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Basically a summary complaining that DS pilots can't pull the scrubby moves that Tankers would be castigated for if they pulled them. What? Have you noticed that dropships can fly, my friend, and tanks can't? What was your post trying to achieve here? They're two different functioning vehicles. They should be treated differently. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17549	Posted - 2015.03.10 20:59:00 - [15] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: True Adamance wrote: Basically a summary complaining that DS pilots can't pull the scrubby moves that Tankers would be castigated for if they pulled them. What? Have you noticed that dropships can fly, my friend, and tanks can't? What was your post trying to achieve here? They're two different functioning vehicles. They should be treated differently. Well that's one thing I hadn't noticed...... and while I support making dropships better I don't believe that requires the creation of Sky-Tanks to achieve. Significant eHP changes would make the DS incredibly difficult from ground oriented AV forms to deal with. By and by is Rattati doing anything more with DS slot allocations? E.g- Are you getting more? "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2637	Posted - 2015.03.10 21:00:00 - [16] - Quote It doesn't make sense why if drop ships are support roles, why are they forced to kill? Should kill assist be instead called "Infantry Suppression," 35 points instead of 25. Also, why is it so difficult to pick up and go? It hurts to land, literally, its suicide if something is shooting at you. You flip and die. That, or you get instaganked as a sitting duck. What if there was a built in module similar to the Saga II's, only for the Standard DSs, reducing damage by 60% for seven or so seconds, enough for an extraction. Also, a next step should be to do the same thing that is happening to HAVs to drop ships, making a solo based drop ship as a mobile gun platform, with skills emphasizing offense, and a transport ADS like the one we have now emphasizing survivability, with bonuses to say, hardeners. This is just my 2 cents, so take it with a grain of salt. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Everything Dies Not Another Dust Corporation 1272	Posted - 2015.03.10 22:41:00 - [17] - Quote I'd consider advocating the HP increase if the bonus to small turret RoF was removed. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y General Tso's Alliance 601	Posted - 2015.03.10 22:42:00 - [18] - Quote I stopped reading after "I will elaborate" ;~; The new C.EO. of G.L.O.R.Y, I'm that Heavy you warn your team about <3 -Heavy/Commando/Logi/Assault/Scout-
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 445	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:46:00 - [19] - Quote GÇªI didn't expect these threads to start so early. Hotfix Echo is the (believe me, LONG-awaited) opening stage to reintroducing a successful "Purposefulness" to Vehicles in the infantry game. Yes, as pointed out in one of the posts here, Dropships are vehicles, and vehicles are intended to be "support" tools for the infantry's decisions/movements in Dust. HOW each precisely assists a group of foot-players on the map is what will define the purpose of the vehicle and its Skill-grind variants. Originally, vehicles were allowed to "prototype" into logi-variants that repped and boosted other VEHICLES (mirroring the way one of us mercs can deploy repper-energy and nano items to boost up a fellow merc), but the devs shut down that previous way we were allowed to use vehicles. I don't know why, exactly. To keep many cocky "pilots" from assaulting Iceland bearing lit torches (ala Frankenstein's chateau in the movie), CCP relented to leave the ADS-variant of the Dropship in the game. This has effectively dissolved the "logi variant" classification, and allowed the ADS players to attain the bomber/door-gun/transport best of all worlds at the tail-end of the skill tree (with the sacrifice of only two seats). I don't know if the current ADS can survive what Hotfix Echo seems to indicate is ahead. I don't know if it SHOULD surviveGÇª This is why I was hoping the discussion of dropships would wait until AFTER Echo has activated. Let the Hotfix settle in, let the new HAV and Lavs show us where we're going. And yes, let the dropships take whatever lumps they have to take, so we can discuss a FULL (yuck, 150 page thread if necessary) assembly-line of variants and modules. No more little buffs (and no more little nerfs to enemy AV). I'll just work with the DS I have now, and polish up a nice landing pad for Hotfix Foxtrot/Hotel. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2637	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:25:00 - [20] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: Originally, vehicles were allowed to "prototype" into logi-variants that repped and boosted other VEHICLES (mirroring the way one of us mercs can deploy repper-energy and nano items to boost up a fellow merc), but the devs shut down that previous way we were allowed to use vehicles. I don't know why, exactly. Becuz spyder tanking wuz oh pee Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V

Squagga The State Protectorate 397	Posted - 2015.03.11 01:38:00 - [21] - Quote I think vehicles should get more HP .. at the cost of ISK Reloading, the silent killer.
Proto Annihilator 16 Vandals 663	Posted - 2015.03.11 01:49:00 - [22] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: One Eyed King wrote: HP isn't always the answer. HP does not require skill, which is one reason why Heavies are such a problem. I would rather see some changes to their maneuverability and their ability to be evasive once attacked. I think it would be also fair if Swarms did not rock them so much and if they were more stable. It is a bit easy in some situations to attack DS, but I don't think simple, passive changes are always the best. It's the easiest issue to fix, CCP have yet to address these issues about rendering, manueverability of the dropship itself. It takes them forever to fix these things but a HP buff for basic survivability in this hostile aerial situation is the 'short-term' solution. A short term solution that will be exploited. You are just looking for help to farm kills. Dropships are pretty sturdy if you use them for transport. Lay off the XTs and you can fit a tankier ship. World of hurt
PLAYSTTION Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 664	Posted - 2015.03.11 01:58:00 - [23] - Quote I didn't read all that but they do need an HP buff and CCP needs to fix collision damage against walls and other vehicles for all vehicles. Gassault Calogi and more. Respec Pending. `- Open Beta Vet - 38 mil sp - - Director of Corrosive Synergy -`
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4119	Posted - 2015.03.11 15:09:00 - [24] - Quote Unless you get the ability to evade missiles, not die from a simple tap to the ground, a lock on warning or countermeasures then a flat HP buff will have to do but the problem is that the AV weapons which do HAV levels of damage will still do that amount of damage to DS because they have more HP. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514
thehellisgoingon MONSTER SYNERGY 345	Posted - 2015.03.11 15:25:00 - [25] - Quote Sometimes when the AV is too strong and team support is low one can recall a dropship too. Because your not helping the team. Just feeding them reds crazy wp being a jackass. Get on the ground and shoot your gun. Av is cheaper to skill into anyway. Edit: And people wonder where a OB comes from ... Lolol "How did they get enough points for a ob already?" Asked the vehicle squad. Stoopid
Gregor stormwalker Seraphim Auxiliaries 113	Posted - 2015.03.13 21:09:00 - [26] - Quote Just throwing ideas out but what about Dropships get a resistance to swarm's but an increase in the concussive blast effect. So a Dropships can take more swarm hit but only a very skilled pilot will be able to get any shoots on target and survive. the swarm luncher would be more denial of area for Dropships.


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