DUST Search - Aim Assist

Dragonmeballs wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Please give a detailed and constructive reason as to why.

I'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I just hate it when people post ideas for changes to mechanics without ever explaining why.

Crimson pretty much nailed it Maken

Having played since the beginning of open beta, I have been watching what happens when a game/community gets a series of crutches/mechanics that slowly remove the requirements of skill, strategy and cooperation from a game.

As you recall AA and hit detection changed/improved suddenly in sometime in the beta. (Correction welcome if you remember exactly when hit detection got fixed--those of you still with us remember that banner day when projectile weapons all of sudden started to work as intended)

Back then the 1 v 1 gun game was truly different than it is now. You could hip fire but the real damage got done when ADS. Whoever had the courage/skill to ADS would win the 1 v 1 handily if you could pull it off while strafing (circle, figure 8 or back and forth). ADS strafing then was the true example of FPS skill.

Move forward to the "improved AA" in Uprising: You could hip fire and do as much or more damage to the enemy when you were ADS before. This new damage profile altered the way the game was played. Introduce the combat and rail rifle you now have two very powerful tools to use and never really have to ADS to slay. Then came round after round of "balancing" to calm the masses. I'll wager the balancing was based on hip fire instead of ADS damage.

The magnetic nature of AA during hip fire trains a person to believe they are much better at aiming than they actually are...in fact how many times in you last 100 deaths was the person hip firing? Pay attention and you'll find it much more than 50%. Put together a pack and run around the map hip fire/strafe in a wall of damage and you have the latest version of pubstompers.

So you ask....what is wrong with that? Is it good or bad for the game? I honestly don't know. I do know that a spray and pray mechanic works fine for PVE but for PVP it doesn't reward true skill with a controller player to player.

Regarding controllers and AA: I do know you than you can break your opponents AA by yanking the left DS3 stick all around. I also know you don't lose AA on your opponent when you do the same and they don't.

This mechanic allows a person (think M/1 with a B-42) to run/strafe at you doing damage while you are trying to aim (ADS)and can't seem to track. If you do track you break even. Fail to track you die. My problem is the person trying to aim, (sometimes hitting but mostly missing) loses this fight and the person randomly waging their sticks around (also missing but getting all kinds of assistance from AA) ends up believing (erroneously) they are a slayer.

This is becoming the new norm and in my opinion it has turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies.

Nice rant, but what is the problem and what is the solution? In my opinion the hip fire AA is to strong. Back it off a little and see what happens. ADS should be the most powerful mode of aiming. Hip fire is spray and pray and the results should reflect it.

So a critic points out that the Destiny both modes of AA were much much stronger. Absolutely true. The Destiny AA was stronger. That game has come and gone. It was easy mode and played to the people who want to pick and put down a game over a short span of time. Dust was not intended to have a lifespan of 6 months.

TL:DR

Nerf hip fire AA because it turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Diablo Gamekeeper T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:22:00 - [1] - Quote Can we please get rid of this nonsense all together -_-
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 995	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:25:00 - [2] - Quote If we get rid of Kb/M tbh. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Diablo Gamekeeper T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:27:00 - [3] - Quote You mean keyboard and mouse? If so then i used it once and it was hard as **** even with aim assist on
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 995	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:34:00 - [4] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: You mean keyboard and mouse? If so then i used it once and it was hard as **** even with aim assist on kb/m doesn't have aim assist... GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17502	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:43:00 - [5] - Quote But if I don't have aim assist how am I supposed to kill things in order to maintain my 15673.0 KDR? "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
2Berries Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 695	Posted - 2015.03.06 03:43:00 - [6] - Quote I think hit detection relies on AA. I'm trying to make the grass fabulous but the f**king sticks won't work!
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1722	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:10:00 - [7] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: If we get rid of Kb/M tbh. Yas Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Eruditus 920 Nemo Malus Felix 1394	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:18:00 - [8] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Can we please get rid of this nonsense all together -_- Agreed. I just turned mine off for good and I'm just gonna assume everyone else has as well. #lastplacegetsatrophy "Stay gold, Ponyboy..."
xavier zor 0uter.Heaven 699	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:24:00 - [9] - Quote aim assist has barely any effect when aiming...KB/M needs to be removed, it is far better than DS3 in every way, including strafing retired lurking replying
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1355	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:28:00 - [10] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Can we please get rid of this nonsense all together -_- Can i put more than 1 tumb_up on this post? Please support fair play!

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11106	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:36:00 - [11] - Quote Please give a detailed and constructive reason as to why. I'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I just hate it when people post ideas for changes to mechanics without ever explaining why. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1355	Posted - 2015.03.06 04:47:00 - [12] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Please give a detailed and constructive reason as to why. I'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I just hate it when people post ideas for changes to mechanics without ever explaining why. Dear Maken Tosch, i give u reason: 1. Set u console to 576p. 2. Put 2 kincat to u fit. 4. Engage aa. 3. ???? 4. Profit! Please support fair play!
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2010	Posted - 2015.03.06 05:02:00 - [13] - Quote xavier zor wrote: aim assist has barely any effect when aiming...KB/M needs to be removed, it is far better than DS3 in every way, including strafing My ****** meter is tingling. Aim assist is like that cheat code you pop on when you want the game to be easier. It makes killing strafing targets easier, as well as those annoying * jumpy shotgun scouts. True, it's not on Destiny's level in this game, but the AA is still quite strong, especially for weapons like the BP. It was practically (If not completely) nonexistent before... 1.4 I believe, and the TTK was longer for it because nearly everyone is so accustomed to games holding their hands that half of them couldn't shoot for ****. Now we have AA, and hitting a target while moving and strafing at the same time is exceptionally easy. I want to punch.
VAHZZ Haven's Keep 718	Posted - 2015.03.06 05:05:00 - [14] - Quote Also, post in feedback, that's what it is for. *The supreme art of war, is to subdue the enemy without fighting*.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 937	Posted - 2015.03.06 07:45:00 - [15] - Quote 2Berries wrote: I think hit detection relies on AA. exactly why they introduced it. without AA min assaults and scouts would be impossible to kill. 6 man proto squad errday.
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 77	Posted - 2015.03.06 17:54:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Please give a detailed and constructive reason as to why. I'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I just hate it when people post ideas for changes to mechanics without ever explaining why. Crimson pretty much nailed it Maken Having played since the beginning of open beta, I have been watching what happens when a game/community gets a series of crutches/mechanics that slowly remove the requirements of skill, strategy and cooperation from a game. As you recall AA and hit detection changed/improved suddenly in sometime in the beta. (Correction welcome if you remember exactly when hit detection got fixed--those of you still with us remember that banner day when projectile weapons all of sudden started to work as intended) Back then the 1 v 1 gun game was truly different than it is now. You could hip fire but the real damage got done when ADS. Whoever had the courage/skill to ADS would win the 1 v 1 handily if you could pull it off while strafing (circle, figure 8 or back and forth). ADS strafing then was the true example of FPS skill. Move forward to the "improved AA" in Uprising: You could hip fire and do as much or more damage to the enemy when you were ADS before. This new damage profile altered the way the game was played. Introduce the combat and rail rifle you now have two very powerful tools to use and never really have to ADS to slay. Then came round after round of "balancing" to calm the masses. I'll wager the balancing was based on hip fire instead of ADS damage. The magnetic nature of AA during hip fire trains a person to believe they are much better at aiming than they actually are...in fact how many times in you last 100 deaths was the person hip firing? Pay attention and you'll find it much more than 50%. Put together a pack and run around the map hip fire/strafe in a wall of damage and you have the latest version of pubstompers. So you ask....what is wrong with that? Is it good or bad for the game? I honestly don't know. I do know that a spray and pray mechanic works fine for PVE but for PVP it doesn't reward true skill with a controller player to player. Regarding controllers and AA: I do know you than you can break your opponents AA by yanking the left DS3 stick all around. I also know you don't lose AA on your opponent when you do the same and they don't. This mechanic allows a person (think M/1 with a B-42) to run/strafe at you doing damage while you are trying to aim (ADS)and can't seem to track. If you do track you break even. Fail to track you die. My problem is the person trying to aim, (sometimes hitting but mostly missing) loses this fight and the person randomly waging their sticks around (also missing but getting all kinds of assistance from AA) ends up believing (erroneously) they are a slayer. This is becoming the new norm and in my opinion it has turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies. Nice rant, but what is the problem and what is the solution? In my opinion the hip fire AA is to strong. Back it off a little and see what happens. ADS should be the most powerful mode of aiming. Hip fire is spray and pray and the results should reflect it. So a critic points out that the Destiny both modes of AA were much much stronger. Absolutely true. The Destiny AA was stronger. That game has come and gone. It was easy mode and played to the people who want to pick and put down a game over a short span of time. Dust was not intended to have a lifespan of 6 months. TL:DR Nerf hip fire AA because it turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies. Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 869	Posted - 2015.03.06 18:03:00 - [17] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: I just turned mine off for good and I'm just gonna assume everyone else has as well. Famous last words. Found my favorite DJ - ATB
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1362	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:10:00 - [18] - Quote Dragonmeballs wrote: Regarding controllers and AA: I do know you than you can break your opponents AA by yanking the left DS3 stick all around. I also know you don't lose AA on your opponent when you do the same and they don't. This mechanic allows a person (think M/1 with a B-42) to run/strafe at you doing damage while you are trying to aim (ADS)and can't seem to track. 10/10 Accurate shooting without using ADS - a crime against common sense. The AAbility to perform this while strafe - a mockery of the essence of the game. You're wasting your time on the aiming at an enemy that is already took aim at you just by looking in your direction. At the same time he is able to pull from side to side like a leaf in the wind. --------\|\|\|-------- === -you- === --------\|\|\|-------- --------\|\|\|-------- =-you-----=== --------\|\|\|-------- --------\|\|\|-------- ===-----you-= --------\|\|\|-------- Please support fair play!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3176	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:23:00 - [19] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: If we get rid of Kb/M tbh. So you want me and about 5 other people who still use KB/M to leave the game? lol. Come on man! We have it hard enough as it is jesus. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 945	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:28:00 - [20] - Quote Get rid of kb&m, then we can talk about AA. Until then, No. Ps. I've used kb&m for 3 days a month ago. I felt like if i was playing a PC fps game. And since i'm better in PC shooters than in any other game, i could do way more than with my DS3. It's just way more accurate. But Dust is a console game and i'm using DS3. Loyal to State Mejt0's Sale List Offering help via mails

John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1362	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:37:00 - [21] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Get rid of kb&m, then we can talk about AA. How about to make AA possible only in aim (ads) mode? Or KB/M so superior gamepad that AA should work when firing from the hip? Please support fair play!
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 2022	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:42:00 - [22] - Quote John Psi wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Get rid of kb&m, then we can talk about AA. How about to make AA possible only in aim (ads) mode? Or KB/M so superior gamepad that AA should work when firing from the hip? Both of you make good points in my oppinion as i firmly believe aim assist shouldent exist in a tracking based shooter, but I also believe there is no place for kb/m in a [u ][/u] consol shooter. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1362	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:50:00 - [23] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Both of you make good points in my oppinion as i firmly believe aim assist shouldent exist in a tracking based shooter, but I also believe there is no place for kb/m in a [u ][/u] consol shooter. Thank you, always nice to hear balanced opinion. I am just saying that the Aim Assist is not possible without the AIMING! Shooting from the hip followed by strafing - NOT any kind of AIMING !!! Please support fair play!
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 159	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:07:00 - [24] - Quote xavier zor wrote: aim assist has barely any effect when aiming...KB/M needs to be removed, it is far better than DS3 in every way, including strafing You are kidding, right?
Otoky Dead Man's Game RUST415 164	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:15:00 - [25] - Quote Dragonmeballs wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Please give a detailed and constructive reason as to why. I'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I just hate it when people post ideas for changes to mechanics without ever explaining why. Crimson pretty much nailed it Maken Having played since the beginning of open beta, I have been watching what happens when a game/community gets a series of crutches/mechanics that slowly remove the requirements of skill, strategy and cooperation from a game. As you recall AA and hit detection changed/improved suddenly in sometime in the beta. (Correction welcome if you remember exactly when hit detection got fixed--those of you still with us remember that banner day when projectile weapons all of sudden started to work as intended) Back then the 1 v 1 gun game was truly different than it is now. You could hip fire but the real damage got done when ADS. Whoever had the courage/skill to ADS would win the 1 v 1 handily if you could pull it off while strafing (circle, figure 8 or back and forth). ADS strafing then was the true example of FPS skill. Move forward to the "improved AA" in Uprising: You could hip fire and do as much or more damage to the enemy when you were ADS before. This new damage profile altered the way the game was played. Introduce the combat and rail rifle you now have two very powerful tools to use and never really have to ADS to slay. Then came round after round of "balancing" to calm the masses. I'll wager the balancing was based on hip fire instead of ADS damage. The magnetic nature of AA during hip fire trains a person to believe they are much better at aiming than they actually are...in fact how many times in you last 100 deaths was the person hip firing? Pay attention and you'll find it much more than 50%. Put together a pack and run around the map hip fire/strafe in a wall of damage and you have the latest version of pubstompers. So you ask....what is wrong with that? Is it good or bad for the game? I honestly don't know. I do know that a spray and pray mechanic works fine for PVE but for PVP it doesn't reward true skill with a controller player to player. Regarding controllers and AA: I do know you than you can break your opponents AA by yanking the left DS3 stick all around. I also know you don't lose AA on your opponent when you do the same and they don't. This mechanic allows a person (think M/1 with a B-42) to run/strafe at you doing damage while you are trying to aim (ADS)and can't seem to track. If you do track you break even. Fail to track you die. My problem is the person trying to aim, (sometimes hitting but mostly missing) loses this fight and the person randomly waging their sticks around (also missing but getting all kinds of assistance from AA) ends up believing (erroneously) they are a slayer. This is becoming the new norm and in my opinion it has turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies. Nice rant, but what is the problem and what is the solution? In my opinion the hip fire AA is to strong. Back it off a little and see what happens. ADS should be the most powerful mode of aiming. Hip fire is spray and pray and the results should reflect it. So a critic points out that the Destiny both modes of AA were much much stronger. Absolutely true. The Destiny AA was stronger. That game has come and gone. It was easy mode and played to the people who want to pick and put down a game over a short span of time. Dust was not intended to have a lifespan of 6 months. TL:DR Nerf hip fire AA because it turned a portion of the player base into glitch happy, FOTM, proto-reliant , low skilled, KDR padding weenies. +100
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 2022	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:23:00 - [26] - Quote John Psi wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Both of you make good points in my oppinion as i firmly believe aim assist shouldent exist in a tracking based shooter, but I also believe there is no place for kb/m in a [u ][/u] consol shooter. Thank you, always nice to hear balanced opinion. I am just saying that the Aim Assist is not possible without the AIMING! Shooting from the hip followed by strafing - NOT any kind of AIMING !!! I could live with a slight amount of aim assist if it was only applied when ads. I personally felt the firefights had more action before the introduction of aim assist but that's just my oppinion. The matter of kb/m however is a compleat different ball game and gives a significant advantage when it comes to shooting and straifing speeds . It has no place on a consol shooter. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Otoky Dead Man's Game RUST415 164	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:33:00 - [27] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: John Psi wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Both of you make good points in my oppinion as i firmly believe aim assist shouldent exist in a tracking based shooter, but I also believe there is no place for kb/m in a [u ][/u] consol shooter. Thank you, always nice to hear balanced opinion. I am just saying that the Aim Assist is not possible without the AIMING! Shooting from the hip followed by strafing - NOT any kind of AIMING !!! I could live with a slight amount of aim assist if it was only applied when ads. I personally felt the firefights had more action before the introduction of aim assist but that's just my oppinion. The matter of kb/m however is a compleat different ball game and gives a significant advantage when it comes to shooting and straifing speeds . It has no place on a consol shooter. I dont know any legendary player who plays with KBM. A good DS3 player is untouchable without the AA. So please dont inflate this ballon. KBM gives you an advantage in the case of sniper rifles. But thats all.
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 224	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:42:00 - [28] - Quote Aim assist: It's our only weapon against the machinesGÇªuntil the sequels. Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H 45	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:01:00 - [29] - Quote do you guys think there will be more deaths if Aim assist was removed? How many amarr does it take to change a light bulb? none. The minmatar do it for them
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1827	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:14:00 - [30] - Quote xavier zor wrote: aim assist has barely any effect when aiming...KB/M needs to be removed, it is far better than DS3 in every way, including strafing The strafing is a legend. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.

John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1364	Posted - 2015.03.07 15:12:00 - [31] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: The strafing is a legend. No, diagnosis. Please support fair play!


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