DUST Search - Problems With Proficiency.

Logi Bro wrote:

The ability to passively amp your damage to ridiculous amounts is really causing problems with TTK and balancing.

As I'm sure many of you know, the proficiency skill on a weapon will increase that weapon's damage against a certain tank by 15% at LvL 5. We now have the Warbarge, which has a subsystem that will further increase damage by 5% against both tank types. Assuming the two bonuses multiply, that's a 1.21 damage multiplier against a certain tank before you even calculate damage mods and a weapon's natural damage bonus against a certain tank type.

A ~20% passive damage boost? Why is this considered OK by anyone? Considering the large SP pool needed to get Prof 5, it's not like new players are benefiting from it, they are just getting stomped into the ground by vets even harder than if we didn't have these bonuses. Here's some numbers for you to consider:

Laser Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 shield damage multiplier, before additional damage mods.

Projectile Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.39 armor damage multiplier.

Explosive(MD)+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 armor damage multiplier.

These large multipliers are pure passive. You don't have to sacrifice anything on your suit to get these massive increases in damage. If you want to sacrifice a couple high slots for damage mods, the disparity becomes even greater.

As I asked before, why is this considered OK by anyone? For a game that's supposed to have a comparatively large TTK, why are we giving out these large damage increases at the cost of nothing to the guy using them? Proficiency needs to be nerfed. AT LEAST to 2% per level, but ideally it should just be 1% per level. 5% is nothing to laugh at, but it won't give a massive advantage against the new players.

I would suggest that CCP remove the Warbarge +5% altogether, but people have been saying that since the announcement and CCP hasn't even deigned to reply.

TL;DR- Nerf Proficiency.

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Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3457	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:05:00 - [1] - Quote The ability to passively amp your damage to ridiculous amounts is really causing problems with TTK and balancing. As I'm sure many of you know, the proficiency skill on a weapon will increase that weapon's damage against a certain tank by 15% at LvL 5. We now have the Warbarge, which has a subsystem that will further increase damage by 5% against both tank types. Assuming the two bonuses multiply, that's a 1.21 damage multiplier against a certain tank before you even calculate damage mods and a weapon's natural damage bonus against a certain tank type. A ~20% passive damage boost? Why is this considered OK by anyone? Considering the large SP pool needed to get Prof 5, it's not like new players are benefiting from it, they are just getting stomped into the ground by vets even harder than if we didn't have these bonuses. Here's some numbers for you to consider: Laser Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 shield damage multiplier, before additional damage mods. Projectile Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.39 armor damage multiplier. Explosive(MD)+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 armor damage multiplier. These large multipliers are pure passive. You don't have to sacrifice anything on your suit to get these massive increases in damage. If you want to sacrifice a couple high slots for damage mods, the disparity becomes even greater. As I asked before, why is this considered OK by anyone? For a game that's supposed to have a comparatively large TTK, why are we giving out these large damage increases at the cost of nothing to the guy using them? Proficiency needs to be nerfed. AT LEAST to 2% per level, but ideally it should just be 1% per level. 5% is nothing to laugh at, but it won't give a massive advantage against the new players. I would suggest that CCP remove the Warbarge +5% altogether, but people have been saying that since the announcement and CCP hasn't even deigned to reply. TL;DR- Nerf Proficiency. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Pagl1u M Dead Man's Game RUST415 1597	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:09:00 - [2] - Quote No. One of the few assaults you'll find in a PC match!
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1009	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:14:00 - [3] - Quote Maybe a good solution would be to move the proficiency skill down the tree, parallel to the weapons operation skill. Then it could give new players a choice between skilling up the damage of weapon or unlocking the next tier. I do agree with removing the war barge damage bonus though. FOR THE STATE
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15687	Posted - 2015.02.20 18:54:00 - [4] - Quote Boundless CR DPS: 424 HP Boundless CR DPS (Prof. V): 488 HP Difference: 64 HP (320 HP per Engagement) RS-90 DPS: 405 HP Boundless CR DPS: 488 HP Difference: 83 HP (415 per Engagement) The Proficiency Skill doesn't have as great an impact as you're implying, even the progression between tiers (50-100k SP) have a greater impact than the Prof. V skill (~2mil SP). The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Jakkal Shoobah T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Logi bro you make a good point. I agree with your view that the combination of prof and warbage and damage mods can make ttk drop a lot.But I like prof exactly where it is at for one reason. The big fat fatties. At max skill, they get 10 or 15% straight damage resistance to x weapon type. I like to think of my Prof 5 Combat rifle against gallente sentinels with level 5 is as good as no prof Cr against a mlt frame. If prof were lower then sentinels would be even harder to kill. I think prof is a way for your character to get a direct bonus as you earn experience with said weapon. I think of prof as the difference between winning a close encounter and dying when your enemy has 30hp left . Of course I don't have the subsystem but since it takes so long to earn it I don't see it as a problem. Prof may be brutal against new players, but if they stick around they may too enjoy it one day. Would be nice if they just cut all weapons base damage in half. That'll double the ttk ! While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
Ku Shala UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE 1259	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:25:00 - [6] - Quote it is the difference in being able to miss a shot or having to be very accurate *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (CK-0 Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist Superior technology will privale.
m621 zma 301	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:31:00 - [7] - Quote Moochie Cricket wrote: Maybe a good solution would be to move the proficiency skill down the tree, parallel to the weapons operation skill. Then it could give new players a choice between skilling up the damage of weapon or unlocking the next tier. I do agree with removing the war barge damage bonus though. I agree, said pretty much the same thing about 6 -8 months ago, weapon proficiency should unlock at weapon op lv1
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3457	Posted - 2015.02.20 19:45:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Boundless CR DPS: 424 HP Boundless CR DPS (Prof. V): 488 HP Difference: 64 HP (320 HP per Engagement) RS-90 DPS: 405 HP Boundless CR DPS: 488 HP Difference: 83 HP (415 per Engagement) The Proficiency Skill doesn't have as great an impact as you're implying, even the progression between tiers (50-100k SP) have a greater impact than the Prof. V skill (~2mil SP). For a guy who likes his numbers so much, you did a good job of ignoring all of the ones I listed. Here's some more for you. BK-42 ACR- 20.84 dmg, 1200RPM(20RPS) DPS unmodified- 416.8 DPS VS armor(x1.15)- 479.32 DPS VS armor Prof 5(x1.15x1.15)- 551.218 DPS VS armor Prof 5 Warbarge(x1.15x1.15x1.05) - 578.7789 So you'd do 479 DPS to armor with no skills, and 578 DPS with max skills, the difference being just short of 100 DPS greater. Tell me more about how little that is. Or we could do it this way: BK-42 ACR- 20.84 DMG, 68 bullets per mag. DMG per magazine unmodified- 1417.12 DMG per magazine VS armor- 1629.688 DMG per magazine VS armor prof 5- 1874.1412 DMG per magazine VS armor prof 5 Warbarge- 1967.84826 1967-1629= 338 more damage per clip, pure passives, nothing sacrificed. For the majority of my fittings, 338 is about 75% of my total health. 338/20.84=~16, it's basically equivalent to having an extra 16 bullets in the magazine. And keep in mind that all of this is before you even consider people who stack 3 dmg mods, which makes the disparity even greater. If you apply this math to ScRs, you can see why shield tankers complain so much, there is too much excess damage created by passive skills. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3255	Posted - 2015.02.20 20:42:00 - [9] - Quote I'm not so sure that the problem is with proficiency. However, I would wholeheartedly support a TTK increase through an across the board nerf to all light, heavy, and sidearm anti-infantry weapons. Why? Because proficiency should mean something, but TTK has gotten a bit too short for my liking.
The Eristic Dust 90210 806	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:02:00 - [10] - Quote I'd prefer Prof skills to provide unique buffs to weapon mechanics instead of outright damage. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.

LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2248	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:24:00 - [11] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I'm not so sure that the problem is with proficiency. However, I would wholeheartedly support a TTK increase through an across the board nerf to all light, heavy, and sidearm anti-infantry weapons. Why? Because proficiency should mean something, but TTK has gotten a bit too short for my liking. This. It was ok some time ago, but not anymore... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1784	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:51:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: The ability to passively amp your damage to ridiculous amounts is really causing problems with TTK and balancing. As I'm sure many of you know, the proficiency skill on a weapon will increase that weapon's damage against a certain tank by 15% at LvL 5. We now have the Warbarge, which has a subsystem that will further increase damage by 5% against both tank types. Assuming the two bonuses multiply, that's a 1.21 damage multiplier against a certain tank before you even calculate damage mods and a weapon's natural damage bonus against a certain tank type. A ~20% passive damage boost? Why is this considered OK by anyone? Considering the large SP pool needed to get Prof 5, it's not like new players are benefiting from it, they are just getting stomped into the ground by vets even harder than if we didn't have these bonuses. Here's some numbers for you to consider: Laser Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 shield damage multiplier, before additional damage mods. Projectile Weaponry+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.39 armor damage multiplier. Explosive(MD)+Prof 5+Warbarge bonus= 1.45 armor damage multiplier. These large multipliers are pure passive. You don't have to sacrifice anything on your suit to get these massive increases in damage. If you want to sacrifice a couple high slots for damage mods, the disparity becomes even greater. As I asked before, why is this considered OK by anyone? For a game that's supposed to have a comparatively large TTK, why are we giving out these large damage increases at the cost of nothing to the guy using them? Proficiency needs to be nerfed. AT LEAST to 2% per level, but ideally it should just be 1% per level. 5% is nothing to laugh at, but it won't give a massive advantage against the new players. I would suggest that CCP remove the Warbarge +5% altogether, but people have been saying that since the announcement and CCP hasn't even deigned to reply. TL;DR- Nerf Proficiency. Ahem. It's +6% the Warbarge. The answer
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6287	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:54:00 - [13] - Quote Don't forget Commandos. At V they have a 10% boost to damage. That's +30% against a certain tank before damage mods.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6287	Posted - 2015.02.20 22:55:00 - [14] - Quote The Eristic wrote: I'd prefer Prof skills to provide unique buffs to weapon mechanics instead of outright damage. This. I miss the old SG RoF.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1784	Posted - 2015.02.20 23:43:00 - [15] - Quote When I first read that warbarge is gonna give a hard bonus - and a blanket one - I was truly baffled. Couldn't belive to be true. Even though on certain other thread people were 'educating' me that 5% is nothing and will not affect TTK. I still say it will, at least slightly. The answer


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