DUST Search - Are 6 man squads the problem?

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

You are making statements that have no back up. What do you qualify as a "FAIR" or "VALID" tactic that works with a 4 man and what do you call an "UNFAIR" or "INVALID" tactic with a 6 man?

The only thing that a 6 man squad is doing more than a 4 man squad is calling in Warbarge Strikes. Unless you are going in with a group of total killers, you will often only see the top 3 or 4 people in the squad be in the top 6 or 7. If you are looking to stomp with a 4 man squad, you can VERY easily do this:

1 Prototype Gallente/Amarr Heavy
1 level 5 Minmatar Logistics with Repair Tool or Gallente with a Scanner + Repair Tool.
2 of anything else really.

I have been in a three man squad where two Prototype Sentinels waddled into a room full of enemies and had the room clear due to being able to repair them both with my Prototype Repair Tool. What would an extra 3 people have done that would have pushed that over the top? Even in your example, one Gallente Logistics with a Scanner is going to reveal a lot of the map and with 3 slayers is going to stomp just as much.

A lot of people are going to say that "Protostomping has gotten a lot worse with 4 man squads!" but the game has changed in so many ways. Aim Assist was included and the TTK was dropped considerably. Prototype Suits have become ubiquitous and those that play together compound their benefit. There are far, far too many variables to state that Protostomping is the result of 6 players.

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Big miku Nation of Miku 403	Posted - 2015.02.19 00:59:00 - [1] - Quote Just got rolled in an Ambush by the usual suspects when I noticed that two of their members went 0/0 and had a ton of WP. Do 6 man squads give too much benefit? It is clear that those two were the reason why I was getting "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" every two seconds. A SIX man squad gives to the option of having 4 Tanked out top of the line Assault Suits and 2 Top of the Line Logi suits that can give 24/7 battlefield in-tell as well as each assault carrying scanners or hives. While 4 man squads would limit such VALID and FAIR tactics. Your opinion?
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7538	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:02:00 - [2] - Quote I don't think changing squad numbers would do anything. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens 1063	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:02:00 - [3] - Quote 4 man squads for pubs 8 man squads for FW 16 squad for PC I dont care what anyone says. Ever since 6 man squads came in Uprising 1.0 pubstomping has gotten much more worse than it did in Chrome. Changes to Damage mods!
LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2185	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:07:00 - [4] - Quote It may help a little, but it won't solve it entirely... Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2124	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:11:00 - [5] - Quote There will be alot more people quitting matches. Especially proto stompers. Who wants some?
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3252	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:26:00 - [6] - Quote You are making statements that have no back up. What do you qualify as a "FAIR" or "VALID" tactic that works with a 4 man and what do you call an "UNFAIR" or "INVALID" tactic with a 6 man? The only thing that a 6 man squad is doing more than a 4 man squad is calling in Warbarge Strikes. Unless you are going in with a group of total killers, you will often only see the top 3 or 4 people in the squad be in the top 6 or 7. If you are looking to stomp with a 4 man squad, you can VERY easily do this: 1 Prototype Gallente/Amarr Heavy 1 level 5 Minmatar Logistics with Repair Tool or Gallente with a Scanner + Repair Tool. 2 of anything else really. I have been in a three man squad where two Prototype Sentinels waddled into a room full of enemies and had the room clear due to being able to repair them both with my Prototype Repair Tool. What would an extra 3 people have done that would have pushed that over the top? Even in your example, one Gallente Logistics with a Scanner is going to reveal a lot of the map and with 3 slayers is going to stomp just as much. A lot of people are going to say that "Protostomping has gotten a lot worse with 4 man squads!" but the game has changed in so many ways. Aim Assist was included and the TTK was dropped considerably. Prototype Suits have become ubiquitous and those that play together compound their benefit. There are far, far too many variables to state that Protostomping is the result of 6 players. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Big miku Nation of Miku 403	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:45:00 - [7] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: You are making statements that have no back up. What do you qualify as a "FAIR" or "VALID" tactic that works with a 4 man and what do you call an "UNFAIR" or "INVALID" tactic with a 6 man? Her NERD, I CAPPED "FAIR AND VALID" because they are FAIR AND VALID. I'm posing a question.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6763	Posted - 2015.02.19 01:54:00 - [8] - Quote All Active Scans (excluding Duvolle Focused) are shared teamwide. As for reducing squad size, yes, I believe it would solve a multitude of matchmaking/stomp problems (though perhaps not this particular one). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 269	Posted - 2015.02.19 02:19:00 - [9] - Quote In my opinion if ccp wants to keep the game play smooth in subject of squads, they have 2 options or reduce sqds or increase the amount of players, I want to put as example MAG in domination it was 128 players in both sides and sometimes to make an impact in the battlefield u needed at least 20 players in your side, but by seeing the relation 20/128 is insignificant, sometimes one side was able to advance because those 20 guys attacking. In dust with sqds u are filling 6/16 if we compare both examples we can see where is going to be a bigger impact, in other words a 32 vs 32 would be way better "if noobs do not sync of course" cause we are talking of 6/32. Right now if ccp wants to keep 16vs16 I believe 4 is good enough. Or sometimes 2, after all if u want to have fun and showing whom rules there are fws and PCs. Not a public match. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
m621 zma 297	Posted - 2015.02.19 02:56:00 - [10] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: You are making statements that have no back up. What do you qualify as a "FAIR" or "VALID" tactic that works with a 4 man and what do you call an "UNFAIR" or "INVALID" tactic with a 6 man? The only thing that a 6 man squad is doing more than a 4 man squad is calling in Warbarge Strikes. Unless you are going in with a group of total killers, you will often only see the top 3 or 4 people in the squad be in the top 6 or 7. If you are looking to stomp with a 4 man squad, you can VERY easily do this: 1 Prototype Gallente/Amarr Heavy 1 level 5 Minmatar Logistics with Repair Tool or Gallente with a Scanner + Repair Tool. 2 of anything else really. I have been in a three man squad where two Prototype Sentinels waddled into a room full of enemies and had the room clear due to being able to repair them both with my Prototype Repair Tool. What would an extra 3 people have done that would have pushed that over the top? Even in your example, one Gallente Logistics with a Scanner is going to reveal a lot of the map and with 3 slayers is going to stomp just as much. A lot of people are going to say that "Protostomping has gotten a lot worse with 4 man squads!" but the game has changed in so many ways. Aim Assist was included and the TTK was dropped considerably. Prototype Suits have become ubiquitous and those that play together compound their benefit. There are far, far too many variables to state that Protostomping is the result of 6 players. The extra 3 people get to kill them all over again as soon as they respawn.

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 4659	Posted - 2015.02.19 03:57:00 - [11] - Quote I wouldn't mind seing 32v32 But yes 6 man squads is a problem for pubs, would reduce to 4 Team deploy for FW and PC Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 15678	Posted - 2015.02.19 04:01:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: I've got a bridge, and a lake to sale to anyone who believes that removing two players from a squad will stop said squad from stomping the crap out of you. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Dengru Fatal Absolution 499	Posted - 2015.02.19 04:02:00 - [13] - Quote The amount of players in a squad shouldn't have been expanded for pubs, just pc and fw. I remember th day it was expanded and it was an immediate difference in the force of the pubstomping (>^_^)><(^.^<)
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2773	Posted - 2015.02.19 04:16:00 - [14] - Quote I have mixed feelings about dropping down to 4 man squads. On the negative, it will reduce variety of squad comps and some of the inherently fun tactics that result from that: like a pilot dropping off his squad to secure an objective, and then evaccing out to the next objective. On the positive side I'm hoping 4 man squads will be easier for the matchmaker algorithm to create really fun and balanced fights. Best PvE idea ever!
Lorhak Gannarsein Nos Nothi 4302	Posted - 2015.02.19 04:33:00 - [15] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I don't think changing squad numbers would do anything. What it would do is break down the MU calcs into smaller chunks; 32 guys breaks down into four full squads and eight solo players; with 4 man squads the MU changes, there'll likely be more full squads around (considering there are plenty of six-man squads around I think this is a reasonable assumption) so those full squads are more easily matched against other full squads - and they can't cover as many roles simultaneously, so they're easier to counter. Well, here goes nothing!!!


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