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![[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]")
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 20:53:00 -
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As it is in game now, I feel it is taking entirely too long to throw grenades. While i can appreciate the motions and actions associated with it, I would love to see this sped up just a tad bit, so it doesn't feel like i'm making the damn thing before I throw it. Perhaps even make it a skill you'd have to train to decrease the amount of time it takes to throw the grenade.
Note: I am not asking for insta-throw, just a faster throw rate
Edit: After some posting on this thread an idea for a cover grenade has come up, IE: smoke grenade (or if optics are too high-tech, I would propose small emp "smartnade" which would make the enemy players screen fuzzy the closer they got to the grenade, serving the purpose of providing fire cover/reload cover while not having to change the grenade throwing speed but rather making a new piece of equipment)
^^^ This will likely be put into a new thread later on |
[Veteran_Vallud Eadesso]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 20:57:00 -
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I don't know, man. I kinda like the slow grenade throw, kinda makes them a commitment rather than a ditch effort to get a cheap kill. I hate the speed they can be tossed out in games like Halo and Cod and LOVE the idea that when I choose to throw a grenade, I have to cmit to it, and make sure it's a good idea to throw it.
Not only does it cost ISK, but it also makes me do a quick threat assessment to make sure it's even worth throwing one. I kinda like it being slow... though personally i'd rather the TF2 style of hand grenades... that is: There are none. |
[Veteran_Oposum]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 21:20:00 -
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I agree with Vallud. I like the Slow Grenade very much. It's really taking out the "quick kill" effect of the grenade. I liek to use it at rooms which si full of enemys, or taking down people from cliffs. And i think its also kinda realistic to dont throw a grenade immediatly. And you can "cook" the grenade which is very handy too  |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 21:27:00 -
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I see the reasoning behind making it slower, but the main reason I use grenades is to provide some cover while I reload after i'm out of ammo ;) Hence the slow throw rate kind of defeats that purpose as you can usually reload faster than throwing one. |
[Veteran_SILENTSAM 69]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 21:33:00 -
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You can hold the button and cook the grenade. Problem solved. |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 22:38:00 -
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SILENTSAM 69 wrote:You can hold the button and cook the grenade. Problem solved.
That does not solve the problem of needing quick cover while you reload your gun, in fact that makes it even more of a problem
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[Veteran_JAG]
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Posted - 2012.05.27 23:01:00 -
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I have to say i didn't like the grenade throw at first, but it's growing on me now that i know how to use them. like others here said, you have to pick and choose your moments.. otherwise you're a dead clone. |
[Veteran_Dracknar]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 00:10:00 -
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I have previously felt as the OP, where I wanted a quicker Grenade throw. Even if only a little.. it really does seem to take sooooo long.
The grenade throw should also interrupt other actions.
On many occasions I've gone to throw a grenade... waited the second I've come to expect to see me throwing it... then notice I'm not throwing a grenade at all..
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[Veteran_Zanis Mareli]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 01:09:00 -
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The grenade is "hard" to use, to say the least. Mostly because the animation is slow. It's underwhelming when you only feel as if you are getting frags on lucky tosses. The area of battle also makes it somewhat hard to place a grenade, as you are trying to find a good position to throw it, whilst dodging fire, avoiding vehicles, etc. It can seem as if you are like fumbling to get the grenade from your belt because you are not an elite combat machine of cold calculated assault.
However. I do not have tons of experience with the grenade, in DUST that is. I can agree that you can get used to the, imo, awkwardness of the speed of it. There should be a skill to quicken the throw, or grenades that you throw a shorter distance but are faster to toss. Some kind of counter balance so you can still have like a good lobbing grenade or a close urban style one.
But I think the big point here is that we all love grenades and thank all of everyone for our ability to throw exploding things, electronically, and somewhat harmlessly. |
[Veteran_DrWhitey1]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 06:49:00 -
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I also agree to make grenades throwing faster.
Although it depends on how CCP thinks about the usage of the grenades.
Is it intended to use as cover/reload/distraction or to seriously help you in killing some clones.
At this point you really have to anticipate when you're throwing a grenade, since your enemy has plenty of time to cover or either kill you while your throwing.
I've had several times that I could have killed 3 clones at ones, but because of the slow animation and throw, they were already spread out before the grenade even landed.
I vote for a faster throwing grenade, although not too fast.
Or like suggest already, to be able to skill for faster throwing. |
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[Veteran_Nova Knife]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 11:41:00 -
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As someone who has used these grenades extensively over the past couple months, and as someone who spent an entire day dedicated to solely using grenades and knives to kill people, I can tell you that the grenade speed is not too slow.
In nearly every situation you should -always- be cooking those grenades. If you're not... you're usually doing something wrong. If you don't cook, they are too easy to dodge and you will waste many grenades as people run or jump out of the way.
The arc is a bit different from other games and takes some getting used to, but you will find with some practice you can be incredibly precise with the grenades, and given that they 'bounce' off of friendly and enemy clones alike, you can even get 'headshots' with them and have them explode directly on someone's face, using certain variants.
I will admit however the grenades are a little less responsive than ideal, as sometimes the throw/cook process does not start when you hit the button. This is tied to the delays between actions, but the animations are no in the game yet to visually cue this. :( |
[Veteran_John Zastrow]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 13:36:00 -
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If 2 guys are strafing around in circles blasting each other pointblack and neither die (This happens a lot because of how awful the netcode is, bullets just dont register) and they both have to reload, if one guy goes to throw a quick grenade to cover his reload he's basically dead because of how long the grenade throw takes. It is DEFINITELY too long. It should take maybe 2 seconds, not 4. |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 15:14:00 -
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As many of you have stated yes I would agree you should be cooking your grenades if your looking for a kill, but they are not always for making kills, but rather cover to be able to reload your weapon so that you can then kill them. I will not make the suggestion here but I personally believe grenades should not be a kill unless your on top of them but rather severely damage them to make them either A) Back off or B) easy to kill when you run into a room where some #$%^ is camping with a chaingun. This is made impossible to use in this aspect (as cover) with how long it takes to throw the grenade, that is the point that is trying to be made here, not cooking, not killing, but using them as a defensive asset. |
[Veteran_Maul555]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 16:34:00 -
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I have to agree, it seems like the grenade toss takes too long. Reduce it by 1/2 or 1/3rd and it should be just about right... I didn't know you could cook the grenade though, that helps. |
[Veteran_Ren Vex]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 16:43:00 -
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Giving my support in favour of faster grenade throwing, even if it is a skill.
Its not always about cooking the grenade the perfect amount of time or getting used to the arc which IS a little different. That is really not the point at all. There are plenty of situations where you want to just make someone back off quickly, and in this instance the current speed makes grenades almost useless for this particular task. |
[Veteran_Victor Korso]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 20:49:00 -
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I think that the current grenade speed is fine. For those of you who have had the pleasures of tossing one in RL you know you have to take a wee bit extra time as it is a grenade and their deadly. The grenade is a deliberate attack to flush out enemy positions or to clear congested paths. If you are hell bent on becoming a grenadier expert sure, train throwing skills to increase your distant, power, and speed. |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 21:16:00 -
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Victor Korso wrote:I think that the current grenade speed is fine. For those of you who have had the pleasures of tossing one in RL you know you have to take a wee bit extra time as it is a grenade and their deadly. The grenade is a deliberate attack to flush out enemy positions or to clear congested paths. If you are hell bent on becoming a grenadier expert sure, train throwing skills to increase your distant, power, and speed.
While one of my favorite things about eve (and therefor Dust) is the life-likeness of the game (Such as m3 for cargo not 28 slot backpacks, m/s, velocity resists etc) I would like to say that it is still not real life, and yes the intent of real-life application is to kill someone, it is not always so in the world of pixels. Grenades serve other uses here. |
[Veteran_Victor Korso]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 21:37:00 -
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Carrier Class Thanatos wrote:Victor Korso wrote:I think that the current grenade speed is fine. For those of you who have had the pleasures of tossing one in RL you know you have to take a wee bit extra time as it is a grenade and their deadly. The grenade is a deliberate attack to flush out enemy positions or to clear congested paths. If you are hell bent on becoming a grenadier expert sure, train throwing skills to increase your distant, power, and speed. While one of my favorite things about eve (and therefor Dust) is the life-likeness of the game (Such as m3 for cargo not 28 slot backpacks, m/s, velocity resists etc) I would like to say that it is still not real life, and yes the intent of real-life application is to kill someone, it is not always so in the world of pixels. Grenades serve other uses here.
I disagree. I've used grenades on several occasions in DUST. I've used them to block enemy movement, route them from their assult, disorganize an assulting or defending element by taking down their shields and almost all the armor, and in the "brawls" get a few dozen kills with well placed grenades. I think its all in the way people play the game. If a player uses the charge method, up in your face, jumping around like a frog, then grenades are not needed. If your a sniper you may rarely ever use one. If you are a slow and deliberate fighter, keeping average distance between you and your opponent then the grenade serves well to you and your element. |
[Veteran_Cong Zilla]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 22:31:00 -
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The timing is fine, just add an aiming arc and a grenade indicator. Better aim for attackers and better notification for defenders. |
[Veteran_havok]
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Posted - 2012.05.28 22:37:00 -
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Grenades are horribly OP at the moment. I can nearly kill a fully tanked fat suit with a militia grenade.
However, they're balanced against this by being hard to get used to, and (as Vallud mentioned) throwing them is a real commitment.
Leave them alone, imo. |
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[Veteran_Gunblade BrotherHooD]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 01:59:00 -
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I think the time it takes to throw them is an issue. Weaken them damage wise if need be but it takes entirely too long to throw them at the moment. |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 06:15:00 -
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Gunblade BrotherHooD wrote:I think the time it takes to throw them is an issue. Weaken them damage wise if need be but it takes entirely too long to throw them at the moment.
Damage decrease was another aspect on my mind since we don't have grenade indicators to tell us we are about to die so it's not really fair to be skipping along the yellow brick road and get blown up by so random grenade. |
[Veteran_Gunblade BrotherHooD]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 04:36:00 -
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I strongly support a grenade indicator :) |
[Veteran_Kronnek McBryde]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 05:58:00 -
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I would like grenades to make more of a noise when they bounce along the ground. In CS you can hear them clearly... Doesn't mean you are going to get away but, gives you some time to at least make a run for it. |
[Veteran_ETEREXX]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 06:09:00 -
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Can we just have smoke grenades for cover? Or whatever they need to be in order to disrupt future optics... |
[Veteran_Carrier Class Thanatos]
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Posted - 2012.05.30 06:15:00 -
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ETEREXX wrote:Can we just have smoke grenades for cover? Or whatever they need to be in order to disrupt future optics...
As long as you can throw them faster than regular grenades ;) also we'd have to find a new place for the button, OR just make it a different equipment
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[Veteran_Sandair Mulholy]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:25:00 -
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There is definitely something that needs to be done with the grenades. Either different grenades with different throw speeds. Skills to increase the throw speed. Visual and audio cues.
I agree that if it is to mimic real life, the speeds is about right. But in real life, when you throw a grenade you will almost always do it from cover. In Dust you can't throw grenades from cover. You can cook it, then get out of cover to throw... then get shot. Even after cooking, it is slow to throw!
In any case, trying to mimic real life here is a mistake, nothing compares. So they should be adjusted for the game. My opinion is that there should be a combination of grenade types and skills for different purposes. But definitely a combination to allow a quick grenade throw.
On the other hand, maybe it could be a completely different solution. E.g. If you want to use grenades for cover, instead of adding them to your Dropsuit fitting, add an electronic forward flash bang, or more appropriately in this case, a directional EMP. Not something that you throw, but something your suit generates and takes time to recharge. |
[Veteran_UltraMind Regenersis]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:59:00 -
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I AM THE THREAD KILLER
If anyone wants to watch the demos from fanfest and E3 you will see that the build they are using in fact has a much FASTER grenade throw. I suspect that its the internal build the davs talk about that is the base for the next patch on 29th.
THANK YOU, MOVE ON 
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[Veteran_Baal Roo]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 18:28:00 -
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UltraMind Regenersis wrote:I AM THE THREAD KILLER If anyone wants to watch the demos from fanfest and E3 you will see that the build they are using in fact has a much FASTER grenade throw. I suspect that its the internal build the davs talk about that is the base for the next patch on 29th. THANK YOU, MOVE ON
well, bummer.
When I've been recently playing other FPS games that are less strategic and more run & gun, I find myself agreeing with these sorts of threads instinctually. In a lot of those style games, the idea is to get good at constantly juggling weapons, grenades, reloads, etc through manual dexterity so that you are constantly doing a barage of damage in one form or another. Burn through one gun, fast switch to the other, burn through the second, toss grenade, reload, repeat. There IS a certain satisfaction to that sort of thing, and it can be a tough mindset to break. HOWEVER, I like the fact that this game seems to be one that DOES break that mindset. Grenades are no longer the damage that you do while reloading, they are, well... grenades. In this game, the slow animation means that when you blow through your ammo spraying lead at the other guy, you have to reload, and you'll probably die.
We are no longer a one man army in Dust, we're part of a squad. How about, instead of trying to use grenades to cover you while you reload, use the guy next to you to cover you while you reload and use grenades to flush out large groups of enemies chillin' in holes.
I have the same opinion of switching weapons. At first it bugged me that I couldn't just tap a button and immediately have another gun with full ammo replace the depleted one in the middle of a firefight... then I realize this was probably intentional and I just adjusted my gameplay tactics. |
[Veteran_Knarf Black]
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Posted - 2012.06.13 18:56:00 -
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Seems like hitching the toss speed/distance to upgradable skills is a no brainer. More stuff to specialize in. |
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