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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1409
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Posted - 2015.01.28 19:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
The following are bullet points and talking points from several discussions on the Biomassed channel on Skype. I imagine many of these ideas are not new but I did not find any recent.
At the end I would like you answers two questions:
- Do you agree with the current iteration of uplinks?
- Which suggested changes do you agree with?
Problems:
- Uplinks are plentiful on maps
- Players will glitch or place uplinks high where they are hard or impossible to destroy
- Logis run out of uplinks fairly fast during heated engagements
Possible Ways to Reduce Problems:
- Reduce the number of spawns of uplinks to 6 or fewer
- Increase the number of carried uplinks to 10 or greater to offset number of spawns
Benefits of Change:
- High/Glitched uplinks are far less useful as they run out quickly
- Dedicated logis gain more benefits as other players just laying down uplinks and switching out would not last long
- Logis have to make less trips to a supply depot with increase in capacity
- Logi skills could be added/refactored to to increase spawn counts / number carried.
Wrapping It Up Overall, as someone that has run Logi since Logis existed in Dust, I feel a change similar to those suggested would change how uplinks are used, from a throw in a good spot and forget it for most the match to an actual piece of equipment that really makes the logi shine. Leave your comments below, please keep it on topic.
Also be sure to Vote on the Trello Card here, https://trello.com/c/X49WPpOl
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1414
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Posted - 2015.01.29 15:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Part of the problem with uplinks is that as a concept, they are incredibly powerful.
A lot of games have deployable equipment that can allow a player to respawn at a point of their choosing. Dust is the only one I've played that allows your whole team to use them too. It's like allowing a meta 1 frigate in Eve to drop Cyno's where ever they want.
They've also negated the need for vehicle transport, an important and completely wasted opportunity to give vehicles another role in the game. Why should CCP devekop a Medium Light Troop Transport for the game when a speed tanked scout can get most, if not all of your team there much quicker?
It's also by now an established legacy tactic after two years to use these OP Deployables as a Dust equivilant of the Eve Blob, a very efficient and effective means to win. Which is why players can get a little heated about possible change. We've seen that many, many times on these here forums.
As much as I would personally like to, we can't just remove them from the game outright. But they do need curtailing a little.
Now my own personal preferance is the Spawn Grenade idea, where only 1 or 2 spawns would be allowed to happen on each link but the logi could carry a lot of them, meaning they become less drop and forget and have to actively managed instead, keeping the tourists out of logi work.
I like to do things in iterations, there are many things we could do but we should only do one basic thing at a time. Reducing the spawn counts and increasing carried at least makes them take on a more active role. I also thing the spawn times need adjusted but that is more of a phase 2. I disagree on the only 1-2 spawn in general. As a logi, if I just have to keep throwing an uplink out, it can become so tedious, so a balanced approach I believe is the better option. Now I will say you could maybe have variations with low spawns that give really fast spawns, just like we have now.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1414
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 15:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I really would like to see the overall power of the uplink reduced. I like the idea of carrying more links but having less overall active on the field. I have to agree that uplinks have largely marginalized the transport role of vehicles.
I don't think limiting links to just squads is really a good way to go though. I would rather their balance be adjusted in a way that makes them less overpowering even if they are available to the whole team to spawn on.
Many serious fights really just boil down to who can spam the most links and which team is the best at killing those links.
I believe most are just 1-2 right now. I thought about suggesting only 1 active at a time but I wanted to make an incremental suggestions with the less spawns and more carried to see the results of that. I agree that some balancing needs to be done between CRUs, mCRUs and uplinks. I also agree that uplink spam is often a required feature to win a serious battle.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1414
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 15:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:I like uplinks the way they are. They don't need any nerfs but +1 to max carried or deployable could be useful Also colour of your links should be different
I run logi all the time and I do not see this as a nerf, I see it as a change in how uplinks are played and for those that run logi are rewarded more by carrying uplinks on their suit. In games you will often see people start with an uplink suit and then switch out to a different loadout the rest of the match, it is part of the reason you see so much spam on maps and have a hard time finding your link. There are many possible ways to tackle the issue, BW on suits definitely helped and maybe some more can be done with that as well.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1416
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Posted - 2015.01.29 19:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I think that Drop Uplinks should be handeled similar to Cloaks in that the logi should get a bandwidth bonus in using them, while the bandwidth requirements make them pretty much unusable to other classes.
This way it will help the logi shine, while making it so we don't have every suit type having their own Drop Uplink fitting.
Logis already get reductions to equipment as far as PG / CPU. Is it better to increase BW or give a fitting bonus? I will leave that up to the number crunchers. At this point, the general theme is we want to work on reducing the number of uplinks on the field while making sure logis have that most benefits when running uplinks.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1416
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:My sense of things in order.
#1 is somewhat subjective how many "a lot" of something is has a deeply contextual element and what it is contrasted with matters fundamentally. For my ISK spawn camping is far too plentiful within Dust 514 even in the current game state and further bottle-necking possible spawn locations without first being able to prevent a further spike in the negative behavior of spawn camping is not a positive step for the health of the game. I would rather see more spawn options than less; the addition of possible sky spawns, the improvement of CRUs, and mCRUs etc.
#2 - Bugs should be fixed. Misuse of bugs to make a game asset behave outside of its intended effect is problematic and should be eliminated.
#3 - Logi play with links is often more passive and less dynamic than would be ideal, improving this situation by making uplinks more granular seems like a soundly positive step for the health of the game.
The CPM proposed awhile back, and I still fully endorse, the idea of reducing spawns per link to 5 (initially the thought was 1 however there were some tech limits server side which made that less than ideal) and scale max carried (not max active) upward to keep total payload at present levels. This change would require a more active role from players to keep an uplink present but would allow those who are not using links in a passive 'fire and forget' manner to better conserve and deploy their resources as a single flux would not longer wipe out 25 spawns worth of link. On balance it is a win-win.
If after such a change uplinks are deemed to be too potent (based on in game metrics) then the next step would be to scale up their CPU/PG costs so that fewer fits could run them thus raising their opportunity cost. BW costs can also be tuned up or down as needed for proper polish.
Most importantly approaching this or any change with an iterative rather than sweeping methodology is key to avoiding the (all too frequent) mistakes of Dust past. The current Dust Dev team as done a bang up job of this and we should make every effort to support the continuing use of an iterative approach to Dust.
0.02 ISK Cross
Nice overall analysis. I mentioned glitches and obviously no feature should be changed to deal with a problem in another area but I just mention it as helping with said problem till those spots are fixed.
Great that we reached similar independent conclusions on the change.
I think my primary reason for the number 6 was that you could have your squad mates all spawn on it and have 1 more for the next person to spawn in with another link set, but that's just getting technical.
Again agree with the iterative process, part of the reason I only mentioned spawn counts and amount carried, something that can possibly be changed very easily and then build off it for additional updates.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
|
Brush Master
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1416
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote:Brush Master wrote:The following are bullet points and talking points from several discussions on the Biomassed channel on Skype. I imagine many of these ideas are not new but I did not find any recent. At the end I would like you answers two questions:
- Do you agree with the current iteration of uplinks?
- Which suggested changes do you agree with?
Problems:
- Uplinks are plentiful on maps
- Players will glitch or place uplinks high where they are hard or impossible to destroy
- Logis run out of uplinks fairly fast during heated engagements
Possible Ways to Reduce Problems:
- Reduce the number of spawns of uplinks to 6 or fewer
- Increase the number of carried uplinks to 10 or greater to offset number of spawns
Benefits of Change:
- High/Glitched uplinks are far less useful as they run out quickly
- Dedicated logis gain more benefits as other players just laying down uplinks and switching out would not last long
- Logis have to make less trips to a supply depot with increase in capacity
- Logi skills could be added/refactored to to increase spawn counts / number carried.
Wrapping It Up Overall, as someone that has run Logi since Logis existed in Dust, I feel a change similar to those suggested would change how uplinks are used, from a throw in a good spot and forget it for most the match to an actual piece of equipment that really makes the logi shine. Leave your comments below, please keep it on topic. Also be sure to Vote on the Trello Card here, https://trello.com/c/X49WPpOl No? Currently spawns are already down on uplinks and its simple to drop them yes but unless you invest time and isk placing them out of reach they are destroyed rapidly if found, this is not broken, I really think that it is something thought up by people who don't carry fluxes, are trying to spawn camp or just don't care what lengths people need to go to to get near indestructible links. It is difficult and you need to know your maps, that said it is just as easy to camp those ones and to destroy them even though they are nigh indestructible, extreme measures sure but they took extreme measures to put them there in the first place. Credit for them being in good locations should be rewarded with a good amount of spawns not a reduction nerf again. Continue fixing the terrain so that you cannot glitch out links is a better answer. It is foolhardy to blame a perfectly good asset for a problem created by bad texturing.
You mention spawns are down, I have not experienced any decline, this could be a case where game mode plays in, I primarily play in public matches. I have noticed that in some games there are excessive amounts of links and I tend to place mine further away from the crowds in strategic locations, combine with them have a low spawn time could contribute to my person experience. I admit there could be some biases in that I run proto links on all my logi builds.
Again, not a nerf but a shift, you still get the same spawns and actually get more carried so even if they are getting destroyed, you have plenty to reinstate spawn locations. I agree that any suggestion should not be based on improving the effects of a bug but thought worth mentioning that it would help with such cases until they are resolved.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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